michiguel wrote: H. Williamson is part of the investigation secretariat?
Miguel
I do not recall signing the letter.
Very funny. When Vas sues ICGA, try to explain to a judge you do not have any relationship to the accusers.
Miguel
I do not see that happening.
I am well known as a member of Mark's team but I am not an employee and have never been paid any money for my involvement in Computer Chess. I am not a Clone of Mark and my opinions may or may not be the same as his.
excluding the Engine Author under examination .. we have all but one World Champion engine author since 1992 signing the letter
it should be remembered that these men were fierce competitors for many years ..so seeing them all agree to the notion that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable
Of course many other highly respected and talented Engine authors also signed the letter..some of whom might have been World Champions themselves if not losing to the engine in question or deciding not to even compete entirely in the ICGA World Championships given the participation of the allegedly illegally derived engine
Bob Hyatt ..a World Champion author himself of course did not sign as he is on the panel invested with making a determination on the derivative issue
Then... shouldn't be a proper procedure to sign and recuse himself to be in the secretariat?
Also, if signing (accusing) and being part of the process is not expected, how come M. Uniacke is signing and H. Williamson is part of the investigation secretariat?
I am surprised that nobody has seen this as a problem.
Or the goal is to give Vas enough reasons to sue ICGA in case the decision does not favor him?
Miguel
i think this is unprecedented in the history of competitive sport Regards
Steve
The secretariat does not actually have the decision making power. AFAIK they only manage the presentation of evidence by both sides.
Most likely the ICGA will assemble a panel of outsiders. As noted elsewhere, in the LION++ case Schaeffer and Bjornsson were on the panel.
excluding the Engine Author under examination .. we have all but one World Champion engine author since 1992 signing the letter
it should be remembered that these men were fierce competitors for many years ..so seeing them all agree to the notion that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable
Of course many other highly respected and talented Engine authors also signed the letter..some of whom might have been World Champions themselves if not losing to the engine in question or deciding not to even compete entirely in the ICGA World Championships given the participation of the allegedly illegally derived engine
Bob Hyatt ..a World Champion author himself of course did not sign as he is on the panel invested with making a determination on the derivative issue
Then... shouldn't be a proper procedure to sign and recuse himself to be in the secretariat?
Also, if signing (accusing) and being part of the process is not expected, how come M. Uniacke is signing and H. Williamson is part of the investigation secretariat?
I am surprised that nobody has seen this as a problem.
Or the goal is to give Vas enough reasons to sue ICGA in case the decision does not favor him?
Miguel
i think this is unprecedented in the history of competitive sport Regards
Steve
The secretariat does not actually have the decision making power. AFAIK they only manage the presentation of evidence by both sides.
Most likely the ICGA will assemble a panel of outsiders. As noted elsewhere, in the LION++ case Schaeffer and Bjornsson were on the panel.
Zach Wegner wrote:
The secretariat does not actually have the decision making power. AFAIK they only manage the presentation of evidence by both sides.
Most likely the ICGA will assemble a panel of outsiders. As noted elsewhere, in the LION++ case Schaeffer and Bjornsson were on the panel.
Correct, we will present the findings of the panel to the ICGA. We have no decision making powers.
Last edited by Harvey Williamson on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
michiguel wrote: H. Williamson is part of the investigation secretariat?
Miguel
I do not recall signing the letter.
Very funny. When Vas sues ICGA, try to explain to a judge you do not have any relationship to the accusers.
Miguel
I do not see that happening.
I am well known as a member of Mark's team but I am not an employee and have never been paid any money for my involvement in Computer Chess. I am not a Clone of Mark and my opinions may or may not be the same as his.
And if you think that is independent enough, and that a judge won't see any problem with it, go ahead.
Steve B wrote:
I may have missed them, but I don't see the authors of some of the other top-rated closed-source engines (i.e. Fritz, Houdini, Naum) on the list.
as i mentioned in my lead post
there is only only World Champion author since 1992 that did not sign(excluding the engine author under examination)
that would be Morsch(Fritz)
Steve[/quote]
I understand your statement, but that doesn't preclude the other major engines from being part of the process. Not winning a world championship doesn't mean that the engine isn't a strong contender, nor should the author be excluded from the process. Naum certainly is (or at least was) a force to be reckoned with in the World Championships, and it's likely that Houdini would win if it were allowed to participate. Were Mr. Houdart and Mr. Naumov contacted, and if so, why aren't they on the list of signers?
This production is being brought to you by Rybka: "The engine made from scratch.™"
Zach Wegner wrote:
The secretariat does not actually have the decision making power. AFAIK they only manage the presentation of evidence by both sides.
Most likely the ICGA will assemble a panel of outsiders. As noted elsewhere, in the LION++ case Schaeffer and Bjornsson were on the panel.
Correct, we will present the findings of the panel to the ICGA. We have no decision making powers.
It looks like you have enough "decision making powers" to raise a flag that a Judge may pay attention to. The word decision and secretariat is spread over the document.
Miguel
[c] Persons accepted as experts by the ICGA or by a unanimous decision of the Secretariat of the Panel.
[d] The day-to-day activities of the Panel shall be managed by a Secretariat of three members of the Panel who shall be invited or approved by the ICGA. The ICGA shall have the right to replace members of the Secretariat at its sole discretion upon giving seven days notice on the forum.
[e] For all general decisions relating to the day-to-day running of the Panel and its forum a majority decision of the Secretariat shall suffice. In any matters deemed by the ICGA to be of an especially crucial or controversial nature the ICGA may overrule a decision of the Secretariat.
[g] The Secretariat shall normally decide when an allegation of cloning or creating a derivative program has been sufficiently investigated and discussed in the forum. At such time the Secretariat shall be responsible for presenting to the ICGA the Panel’s report on the allegations, and on the defence if any offered by those against whom the allegations have been made, and on the findings of the Panel as to the veracity or otherwise of the allegations. The Secretariat’s report to the ICGA shall include its recommendations if any as to what action if any should be taken by the ICGA in respect of sanctions against anyone found by the Panel to have been guilty of cloning or creating a derivative. Before making its decisions the ICGA shall invite the accused to present any comments they might have on the Panel’s findings and recommendations.
Tom Barrister wrote:
I understand your statement, but that doesn't preclude the other major engines from being part of the process. Not winning a world championship doesn't mean that the engine isn't a strong contender, nor should the author be excluded from the process. Naum certainly is (or at least was) a force to be reckoned with in the World Championships, and it's likely that Houdini would win if it were allowed to participate. Were Mr. Houdart and Mr. Naumov contacted, and if so, why aren't they on the list of signers?
other engine authors aside from past World Champions did sign the letter
the point of my post was to show that i thought it remarkable that previous World Champions did sign.an unprecedented event in the annuals of competitive sport
we certainly have come a long way from the day where day to day members of this forum were making accusations to now see World Champions expressing their opinion of the Fruit--->Rybka situation
i in no way meant to disparage anyone signing the letter that is not a World Champion
nor did i mean to disparage anyone not signing the letter
Isn't, this letter, somewhat late? It looks like -to me-as if we were reading a letter written by Erasmo of Rotterdam about the sins of the papacy.
Besides, isn't Rybka 4 very far from rybka beta 1 and so very very far of Fruit?
If any familiarity is enough to talk of cloning or plagiarism, my God, there is scarce a thing in this Earth free of that.
I do not like the odour that exhales this letter...
fern
Last edited by fern on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
excluding the Engine Author under examination .. we have all but one World Champion engine author since 1992 signing the letter
it should be remembered that these men were fierce competitors for many years ..so seeing them all agree to the notion that Rybka is an authorized Fruit derivative is quite astonishing and remarkable
Of course many other highly respected and talented Engine authors also signed the letter..some of whom might have been World Champions themselves if not losing to the engine in question or deciding not to even compete entirely in the ICGA World Championships given the participation of the allegedly illegally derived engine
Bob Hyatt ..a World Champion author himself of course did not sign as he is on the panel invested with making a determination on the derivative issue
Then... shouldn't be a proper procedure to sign and recuse himself to be in the secretariat?
Also, if signing (accusing) and being part of the process is not expected, how come M. Uniacke is signing and H. Williamson is part of the investigation secretariat?
I am surprised that nobody has seen this as a problem.
Or the goal is to give Vas enough reasons to sue ICGA in case the decision does not favor him?
Miguel
i think this is unprecedented in the history of competitive sport Regards
Steve
The secretariat does not actually have the decision making power. AFAIK they only manage the presentation of evidence by both sides.
Most likely the ICGA will assemble a panel of outsiders. As noted elsewhere, in the LION++ case Schaeffer and Bjornsson were on the panel.
Secretariat was the best ever born racing horse in the history of this exciting sport btw
Anyone here remember this gorgeous animal winning the Triple Crown back in 1972
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….
