TalkChess.com

tomgdrums wrote:Wow. Tord has been nothing but complimentary to you and Chess Tiger, and unless I am missing some hidden sarcasm in your posts you have been rather impolite to him.

I didn't feel that any of Christophe's posts were impolite. He's a good friend and a very highly respected "colleague", and knows me well enough to understand that nothing he has said in this thread or elsewhere comes across as offensive to me.

Tord Romstad wrote: If you could provide a list of features you would like to see added to Stockfish to make it satisfy the "I'd like a decent chess program" market, I would be very happy.

Hi Tord,

Deepest apologies for my wording. I in no way wanted to imply there are any deficiencies in Stockfish. I probable spend more time using Stockfish than any other chess program. It certainly is a more than "decent chess program" and I did not at all intend to imply otherwise.

Best regards,

Steve

tomgdrums wrote:

I'm still experimenting and I'm just starting to understand a little bit about it. So I still do not know what the optimal recipe is.
.

Stockfish fulfills the needs of an infinitesimal fraction of people. It's a technical product made by a technical guy for people with the same set of mind. It does not work for people who want to discover chess or improve, it does not work for people with real chess needs. It works for people who read CCC (and to be polite I'm not going to mention what kind of percentage it represents relative to iOS devices users). It is downloaded because it's free. Easy. Put a price point on it and watch it get some impressive depth. In term of page ranking I mean.

I keep on reading CCC to keep in touch with the nerdy computer chess community but it is just a BAD habit of mine. Being influenced by what I read here is counterproductive in the sense that normal people have needs that have nothing to do with what is said here. I'm still trying to make everybody happy but this might be a mistake.



// Christophe

Wow. Tord has been nothing but complimentary to you and Chess Tiger, and unless I am missing some hidden sarcasm in your posts you have been rather impolite to him. In fact most of your responses to honest questions seem to be snotty and aimed to show how "put upon" you are by having to make your product. If it is that much of a downer for you, don't make it. Move on to Tic-tac-to as you say.

What did I say that is upsetting you so much?


// Christophe

Tord Romstad wrote:

tomgdrums wrote:Wow. Tord has been nothing but complimentary to you and Chess Tiger, and unless I am missing some hidden sarcasm in your posts you have been rather impolite to him.

I didn't feel that any of Christophe's posts were impolite. He's a good friend and a very highly respected "colleague", and knows me well enough to understand that nothing he has said in this thread or elsewhere comes across as offensive to me.

And indeed it was not meant to be offensive.

I'm just sharing my thoughts about this market.

After deciding to give up on Android in mid-2009 and to switch to iOS instead, I was worried by the fact that there were not only strong commercial competitors there but also at least one strong free competitor: Glaurung.

I went ahead anyway.

Now with the experience I have gathered I think that Stockfish is OK for the kind of people who read CCC but does not appeal as much to the majority of iOS users.

People who are advanced at chess and computer chess love it because it is strong and it is free.

However, many people actually purchase non-free chess apps because they are better suited to their needs. And their needs may be fancier graphics, funny sounds, whatever... Anybody can see it by going to the App Store: Stockfish has a good position but is not in the top spots.

So Stockfish on iOS is not only fulfilling your goals, as I have been able to understand from what you have said about it, but it is also a great application for a a category of people, and is not preventing other developpers from making a living.


// Christophe

Tord Romstad wrote:

tiger wrote:

Tord Romstad wrote:

tiger wrote:The name is not important. Look, you can have a horrible and nonsensical name like "Stockfish" and still be popular.

True, but actually the iOS version is named "Stockfish chess", in order to make it easier to find accidentally when searching for chess programs on the app store. I have several friends with iPhones who wanted a chess program, downloaded the most promising looking free program they could find, and discovered to their surprise that I am the author (most of my friends don't know I'm a chess programmer).

Thanks a lot for the new version! The only thing I'm missing now is iPad support.

Actually I'm wondering why you use Chess Tiger. You have developped your own chess program for the same platform...

Just wondering.

For the same reason that most of us on this message board uses more than one chess program: They are all different, and it is fun to play against a variety of opponents. In addition to Stockfish, I use Chess Tiger, Chess Genius, Hiarcs and Kakinoki Shogi regularly on my iPhone and iPad. I also have Shredder and tChess Pro installed, but I don't like them as much as the other programs, and rarely use them.

Shredder has been a great inspiration for me. It showed me how disastrous it can be to try to cram too much information on such a small screen.

Tom are you listening? Are you going to complain to Stephan for this one?


// Christophe

Daily iPhone chess programs releases : great update of Deep Green Chess

Deep Green Chess has been one of my favorite chess programs for iPhone for a while. It is also one of the oldest programs made for Apple devices only, as its first release was made for the Apple Newton in the 90ies!

Up to now, it was an iPhone binary only, but with today's update it's a universal binary that now fits the iPad's big screen adequately.

I quote the changeslog :

What's New in Version 1.2
- Optimized for iPhone 4 and iPad displays
- New default look of board and pieces (skin)
- Universal binary (i.e. iPad version at no extra cost)

A few screenshots of this strong program :

iPhone screenshots:




iPad screenshots:



iTune link : http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/deep-gre ... 71086?mt=8

Was also update today to a universal binary, "Chess", by Byterun Ltd.
iTune link : http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/chess/id319305999?mt=8

tiger wrote:

tomgdrums wrote:

I'm still experimenting and I'm just starting to understand a little bit about it. So I still do not know what the optimal recipe is.
.

Stockfish fulfills the needs of an infinitesimal fraction of people. It's a technical product made by a technical guy for people with the same set of mind. It does not work for people who want to discover chess or improve, it does not work for people with real chess needs. It works for people who read CCC (and to be polite I'm not going to mention what kind of percentage it represents relative to iOS devices users). It is downloaded because it's free. Easy. Put a price point on it and watch it get some impressive depth. In term of page ranking I mean.

I keep on reading CCC to keep in touch with the nerdy computer chess community but it is just a BAD habit of mine. Being influenced by what I read here is counterproductive in the sense that normal people have needs that have nothing to do with what is said here. I'm still trying to make everybody happy but this might be a mistake.



// Christophe

Wow. Tord has been nothing but complimentary to you and Chess Tiger, and unless I am missing some hidden sarcasm in your posts you have been rather impolite to him. In fact most of your responses to honest questions seem to be snotty and aimed to show how "put upon" you are by having to make your product. If it is that much of a downer for you, don't make it. Move on to Tic-tac-to as you say.

What did I say that is upsetting you so much?


// Christophe

Well since Tord is not offended then it is okay. But it is just interesting watching Tord praise Chess Tiger and you insulting Stockfish.

tiger wrote:

Tord Romstad wrote:

tiger wrote:

Tord Romstad wrote:

tiger wrote:The name is not important. Look, you can have a horrible and nonsensical name like "Stockfish" and still be popular.

True, but actually the iOS version is named "Stockfish chess", in order to make it easier to find accidentally when searching for chess programs on the app store. I have several friends with iPhones who wanted a chess program, downloaded the most promising looking free program they could find, and discovered to their surprise that I am the author (most of my friends don't know I'm a chess programmer).

Thanks a lot for the new version! The only thing I'm missing now is iPad support.

Actually I'm wondering why you use Chess Tiger. You have developped your own chess program for the same platform...

Just wondering.

For the same reason that most of us on this message board uses more than one chess program: They are all different, and it is fun to play against a variety of opponents. In addition to Stockfish, I use Chess Tiger, Chess Genius, Hiarcs and Kakinoki Shogi regularly on my iPhone and iPad. I also have Shredder and tChess Pro installed, but I don't like them as much as the other programs, and rarely use them.

Shredder has been a great inspiration for me. It showed me how disastrous it can be to try to cram too much information on such a small screen.

Tom are you listening? Are you going to complain to Stephan for this one?


// Christophe

No I am not going to complain at all. The ironic thing is that I agree with you about the era of cut and paste engines. None of them interest me. I enjoy the chance to purchase original engines by original authors. But your flippant answers to my honest questions regarding a potential Chess Tiger 2011 for PC and your disdain for other programs makes me question whether I care anymore about a Chess Tiger for PC.

As someone who complains (and rightfully so I might add) about the people who support the cut and paste engines, you might want to learn to be a little nicer to potential paying customers and your colleagues who also put out good product.

Just a thought.

Kaj Soderberg wrote:There is also another issue in analysis mode. The 3-minute barrier is lifted with the update, very good. But, when having passed those 3 minutes, no new plies are being displayed. I have tried this with a few positions, running them for over an hour. And yes, i would agree that multi-pv probably slows down the search which is not handy on slowish hardware. Food for thought for Christophe.

My best,
Kaj

It works for me Kaj, so I am not sure why yours is not showing plies after the given time? Can you post a position that this occurs in?

Tord Romstad wrote:Perhaps it is, but I am sure I am not alone when I say that I hugely appreciate that you are here. I hope you won't leave.

The same to you, Tord. As a humble forum user (at least during moments of sanity), I hope that you, Christophe, and many others continue enjoyably posting here. Thank you.