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Re: And then, there was 1.

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:32 am
by Dann Corbit
Paloma wrote:He mean this:
http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/ ... ite_note-7

Code: Select all

So 3, 6, and 9 are monsters and remain unsolved, if they aren't actually broken.
(quoted directly under the diagrams.)

But that was 1994 - the engines and hardware was much much weaker. :)
I think that the original #3 and #6 are correct (I have mechanical solutions that agree and they are deeper than the other solutions).

Re: And then, there was 1.

Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:50 pm
by Leto
Just use IdeA with Houdini on #9, should solve it quickly.

Re: And then, there was 1.

Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:51 pm
by ernest
Dann Corbit wrote:When you say that they are wrong, do you mean that the positions are wrong (e.g. incorrectly transcribed), the solutions are wrong, or both or neither or?
The solutions are wrong.
Nolot.9
the bm Ng5 is not winning: 1.Ng5!! hxg5 2.hxg5! Rfc8! leads to Draw
Nolot.6
the bm ...axb5 is not winning: 13... axb5!! 14.Qxa8 Bd4 15.Ra2! leads to Draw

Re: And then, there was 1.

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:21 am
by PauloSoare
ernest wrote:
Dann Corbit wrote:When you say that they are wrong, do you mean that the positions are wrong (e.g. incorrectly transcribed), the solutions are wrong, or both or neither or?
The solutions are wrong.
Nolot.9
the bm Ng5 is not winning: 1.Ng5!! hxg5 2.hxg5! Rfc8! leads to Draw
Nolot.6
the bm ...axb5 is not winning: 13... axb5!! 14.Qxa8 Bd4 15.Ra2! leads to Draw

I do not know if 1. Ng5 is a draw. It seems to me that not. In my opinion,
there are three moves that wins: 1. Bxh6, 1. Nxh6 and 1. Ng5

Below are some analysis for criticism.

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2011.03.15"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Nolot 9"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[Annotator "Soares,Paulo"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "r4r1k/4bppb/2n1p2p/p1n1P3/1p1p1BNP/3P1NP1/qP2QPB1/2RR2K1 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "49"]
[EventDate "2011.??.??"]

1. Ng5 (1. Bxh6 gxh6 (1... Bf5 2. Qd2 Bxg4 3. Rxc5 Rac8 (3... Rfc8 4. Rxc6 Rxc6
5. Qf4 Rg8 (5... Bf5 6. Nxd4 {+-}) 6. Bg5 Bxf3 (6... Qb3 7. Rf1 {+-}) 7. Bxf3 {
+-}) 4. Rdc1 a4 5. Rxc6 Rxc6 6. Rxc6 a3 7. bxa3 b3 8. Rb6 Bf5 9. Bg5 Bxa3 10.
Rb7 Kg8 11. Qd1) 2. Qd2 Rg8 3. Nxh6 Rg7 4. Rxc5 Bxc5 5. Ng5 Bg6 6. Bxc6 Rc8 7.
Be4 Be7 8. Bxg6 fxg6 9. Rc1 Rf8 10. Ng4 Qd5 11. Nf6 Bxf6 12. exf6 Rd7 (12...
Rb7 13. Ne4 Qd8 14. Qg5 {+-3.21}) 13. Ne4 Qh5 14. Rc6 Kg8 15. Qc1 Rdf7 16. Rxe6
Qd5 17. Rd6 Qf5 18. Qc4 {+-4.02}) (1. Nxh6 Bg6 2. Nxf7+ Rxf7 3. Ng5 Rxf4 4.
gxf4 Rc8 5. h5 Bf5 6. Nf7+ Kg8 (6... Kh7 7. Nd6 Na7 8. Nxc8 Nxc8 9. h6 Kxh6 10.
Rxc5 Bxc5 11. Qc2 Ne7 12. Qxc5 Qa4 13. Rc1 Qd7 14. Qd6 Qe8 15. Qxd4 Qh5 16. Qe3
a4 {+-}) 7. Nd6 {+-}) 1... hxg5 2. hxg5 Rfc8 (2... Rac8 3. Nf6 Nb8 {kgburcham} (
3... g6 4. Qg4 Nd8 5. Qh3) (3... gxf6 4. gxf6 Bg6 5. Bxc6 Bxf6 6. Rxc5 Be7 7.
Rcc1 Kg7 8. Qd2 Rh8 9. Bg5 Bxg5 10. Qxg5 Qxb2 11. Kg2 Rh2+ 12. Kxh2 Qxf2+ 13.
Kh3 Rh8+ 14. Kg4 Rh5 15. Qf6+ Qxf6 16. exf6+ Kxf6 17. Rd2 Rg5+ 18. Kf3 Ke7) 4.
Bd5 Qxd5 5. Nxd5) 3. Nf6 gxf6 4. exf6 Nxd3 (4... Nd7 5. Rxc6 {+-}) (4... Bf8 5.
Rxc5 {+-}) 5. Rxd3 Bf8 6. Rxc6 Rxc6 7. Bxc6 Rd8 8. Rd1 Qb3 9. Rd2 Kg8 10. Qe5
Qc4 11. Qc7 e5 12. Bxe5 Qc1+ 13. Kg2 Re8 (13... Qxd2 14. Qxd8 Qe2 15. Qxd4 a4
16. Bf3 Qc2 17. Bd6 Qd3 18. Bc5 Qxd4 19. Bxd4 Bc2 20. Bd5 b3 21. Kf3 Bb4 22.
Ke2 a3 23. bxa3 Bxa3 24. g6 Bxg6 25. Bxb3 Bb1 26. Bd5 Bf5 27. Kf3 Bc2 28. Be4
Bd1+ 29. Kg2 Bh5 30. f4 Bg4 31. Bf3 Be6 32. g4 Bb4 33. Be5 Bd2 34. g5 Bf5 35.
Bd5 Kf8 36. Kf3 Bg6 37. Be4 Bh5+ 38. Kg3 Be1+ 39. Kh3 Be2) 14. Bf4 Re6 15. Bd5
Qxc7 16. Bxc7 Re1 (16... Re8 17. Rxd4 a4 18. g4 Rc8 19. Be5 b3 20. Rxa4 Rc5 21.
Bxf7+ Kxf7 22. Ra7+ {+-}) 17. Rxd4 a4 18. g4 a3 19. bxa3 bxa3 20. Ra4 Rc1 21.
Bd8 Rd1 22. Be7 Rxd5 23. Bxf8 Bc2 24. Rxa3 Rd8 25. Be7 {+-} *

Re: And then, there was 1.

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:22 am
by PauloSoare
Dann Corbit wrote:
Paloma wrote:He mean this:
http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/ ... ite_note-7

Code: Select all

So 3, 6, and 9 are monsters and remain unsolved, if they aren't actually broken.
(quoted directly under the diagrams.)

But that was 1994 - the engines and hardware was much much weaker. :)
I think that the original #3 and #6 are correct (I have mechanical solutions that agree and they are deeper than the other solutions).
I agree with you, Dann.

Re: And then, there was 1.

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:52 pm
by ernest
PauloSoare wrote:17. Rxd4 a4 18. g4 a3 19. bxa3 bxa3 20. Ra4 Rc1 21.
Bd8 Rd1 22. Be7 Rxd5 23. Bxf8 Bc2 24. Rxa3 Rd8 25. Be7 {+-} *
Hi Paulo,

It seems that after 20. Ra4, ...Rd1! much better holds the situation than your ...Rc1
Indeed, is there still a win for White, after 20 ...Rd1 ? 8-)

Re: And then, there was 1.

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:54 pm
by PauloSoare
ernest wrote:
PauloSoare wrote:17. Rxd4 a4 18. g4 a3 19. bxa3 bxa3 20. Ra4 Rc1 21.
Bd8 Rd1 22. Be7 Rxd5 23. Bxf8 Bc2 24. Rxa3 Rd8 25. Be7 {+-} *
Hi Paulo,

It seems that after 20. Ra4, ...Rd1! much better holds the situation than your ...Rc1
Indeed, is there still a win for White, after 20 ...Rd1 ? 8-)
Yes, Ernest, but the variants after 20 ... Rc1 are beatiful =)
I've been watching closely over the end and I do not see how black can draw.
A doubt arises, how Dann Corbit make the best move?