How many play corr chess on this forum.

[NATIONAL12]

the reason i ask is that all engines get certain positions wrong in their evals,i am talking about late middle game and endgame.

i have recently completed 2 games as black on WBCCC on Rybka forum in Lopez which luckily i managed to draw,if i had blindly followed engine recomendations i would have lost both games Houdini being the worst offender.
as a number of you are aware i have o/c 12 core computer and plenty of spare time(yes i know i am a lucky guy but old now).

i often find even the best hardware and strongest engines are not the answer to a chess position and human imagination and use of forementioned progs and hardware can change a suspected loss into a draw and likewise a draw into a win.

how many of you have also had same experience who also have decent hardware say a quad.

very interested in your guys replies.please do not give me opening positions which engines misevaluate we all know they do that.

there is a lot of chit chat on this forum but how many actually play chess.

the people i know who also post on Rybka forum have no need to reply as i believe they think like myself.

thanks for your time.

[gerold]

I play a lot of chess. I find that most engines are weak mostly in end game. That's where i like to gave the engine help.

[NATIONAL12]

I play a lot of chess. I find that most engines are weak mostly in end game. That's where i like to gave the engine help.

to an extent i agree(however i have found that even top 10 GM,s are crap in endgames at match time controls),by far the strongest engine in an endgame i have found is Rybka,anyone who claims that Zappa or Shredder is strong nowadays is talking rubbish.

in team games i have played alongside IGM's and IM,s and in one case i said leave it to me.(i admit neither had computers)
at least you talk sense.Lets have some others reply.

if the other guys on forum are very shy i will post a couple of games where i had to make a decision. ,sorry where in one game i had to play correct move houdini and rybka move lost no matter how deep you go.

in second game no way in a million years could you guys have found what i believe is winning move for white.

even if you did by looking at my comment on another game of mine,none of you will find the winning line.

this is meant to be be main forum on computer chess.its just not true.

[tano-urayoan]

What is your point besides attacking this forum? (Which is a computer chess forum not a correspondence games one)

That engines sometimes are wrong evaluating positions? Congratulations your discovery will help advance computer chess and AI.

So instead of bashing the people that post here why you do not start posting the positions you refer with your analysis so other people could take a look and give their opinion.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

I play the chess engines in my series of tournaments running for my private rating list....

I think it's much harder to play OTB than to play a corr chess game....

Here are 2 recent games against 2 engines in the range of 2150-2200 Elo defeated by playing the lethal Ruy Lopez Exchange Variation....

The 2 games are annotated by Deep Rybka 4.1....

[Date "2011.06.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dr.Deeb"]
[Black "Nesik 0.7.0"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C68"]
[Annotator "Deep Rybka 4.1 w32 (20m)"]
[PlyCount "56"]
[Source "Chess Informant"]

{C68: Ruy Lopez: Exchange Variation, sidelines} 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6
4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. O-O Qd6 6. Na3 Be6 7. Qe2 f6 8. d4 exd4 9. Rd1 c5 10. c3 {
last book move} Bg4 11. Be3 Qc6 12. cxd4 Qxe4 13. dxc5 Bxc5 {
Black should quickly conclude development.} 14. Rac1 {
White threatens to win material: Rc1xc5} Bd6 15. Nc4 Bxf3 (15... Be7 $5 $16)
16. gxf3 (16. Qxf3 $6 Qxf3 17. Nxd6+ cxd6 18. gxf3 Rd8 $14) 16... Qe6 17. Rd4
Be7 18. Na5 b6 (18... Rc8 19. Nxb7 f5 20. Qc4 $16) 19. Re4 $18 Qxa2 $2 (19...
Qf7 20. Nc6 f5 $18) 20. Rxc7 Kf8 21. Bxb6 (21. Nc6 $142 {
keeps an even firmer grip} Re8 22. Bxb6 $18) 21... Rb8 (21... h5 {
hoping against hope} 22. Nc6 Rh6 23. Nxe7 Nxe7 24. Rcxe7 Rg6+ 25. Kh1 Kg8 $18)
22. Nc6 Rxb6 (22... Re8 {is not much help} 23. Qe1 f5 24. Rcxe7 Nxe7 25. Rxe7
$18) 23. Rc8+ (23. Nxe7 $142 {makes it even easier for White} Nxe7 24. Rcxe7
Qd5 25. Re8+ Kf7 26. Rxh8 Rb7 $18) 23... Kf7 24. Rxe7+ Nxe7 25. Qxe7+ Kg6 26.
Rxh8 Qb1+ 27. Kg2 Rxc6 (27... Rb5 {praying for a miracle} 28. h4 Kh6 29. Qe3+
Kh5 $18) 28. Qe8+ Kh6 (28... Kh6 29. Qxc6 Qg6+ 30. Kf1 Qb1+ 31. Ke2 Qxb2+ 32.
Ke3 Qb3+ 33. Kd2 Qf7 34. Qxa6 Qe7 $18) 1-0

[Event "Zzzz_0_2"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2011.06.06"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dr.Deeb"]
[Black "Neurosis 2.5"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C68"]
[Annotator "Deep Rybka 4.1 w32 (20m)"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[Source "Chess Informant"]

{C68: Ruy Lopez: Exchange Variation, sidelines} 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6
4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. O-O Bg4 6. h3 Bh5 7. g4 Bg6 8. Nxe5 Bd6 9. Nxg6 (9. Nf3 Qd7 10.
d4 O-O-O 11. Qe2 h5 12. Ne5 Bxe5 13. dxe5 hxg4 14. Bf4 Rxh3 15. Nc3 Qe6 16.
Rad1 Re8 17. Bg3 f6 18. Qe3 Kb8 19. Na4 Qc4 20. Rd4 Rh1+ 21. Kxh1 Qxf1+ 22. Kh2
Ne7 23. Bh4 Rh8 {
Aurel,L (2121)-Benedic,P (2053)/Aix-les-Bains 2007/CBM 120 ext/0-1}) 9... hxg6
10. Qf3 Qh4 11. d4 $146 (11. Kg2 Bf4 (11... O-O-O 12. d4 (12. Nc3 Ne7 13. Ne2
f5 14. exf5 gxf5 15. d3 Rdf8 16. Bd2 f4 17. Rh1 Ng6 18. Bc3 Qg5 19. Kf1 Re8 20.
Ng1 Nh4 21. Qd1 Qd5 22. f3 Re3 23. Bd2 Re7 24. Be1 Bc5 25. Bxh4 Rxh4 26. Rh2
Qd4 {Kaufman,L (2349)-Mac Intyre,P (2300)/ICC INT 2005/CBM 108 ext/0-1 (37)})
12... f5 13. e5 Be7 14. c3 Rf8 15. Qg3 Qh7 16. f4 fxg4 17. hxg4 g5 18. f5 g6
19. Be3 gxf5 20. gxf5 Nh6 21. f6 Nf5 22. Rxf5 Qh1+ 23. Kf2 Rh2+ 24. Qxh2 Qxh2+
25. Ke1 Qxb2 26. fxe7 {
Tassopoulos,M (2270)-Mihailidis,A (2252)/Ermioni 2006/CBM 113 ext/0-1 (48)})
12. Nc3 Ne7 13. d4 g5 14. Ne2 Ng6 15. Rh1 Qh6 16. Kf1 Bxc1 (16... Nh4 17. Qd3
Bxc1 18. Rxc1 O-O-O 19. Qe3 Rhe8 20. Rg1 Qe6 21. Nc3 Qc4+ 22. Ne2 Qxa2 23. Qxg5
Rxe4 24. f3 Nxf3 25. Qf5+ Re6 26. Rg3 Qc4 27. Rxf3 Qxe2+ 28. Kg1 Rxd4 29. Rcf1
Rd7 30. Qc5 b6 31. Qf8+ {
Djurhuus,R (2495)-Hector,J (2540)/Malmo 1995/CBM 048/0-1 (61)}) 17. Rxc1 O-O-O
18. Rd1 Nh4 19. Qe3 Qe6 20. Nc3 Qc4+ 21. Rd3 Ng6 22. Qxg5 Rxd4 23. b3 Qb4 24.
Qf5+ Kb8 25. Qxf7 Rxd3 {
Valeanu,E (2361)-Brunello,S (2460)/Yerevan 2006/CBM 114 ext/0-1 (32)}) 11...
Qxh3 12. Qxh3 Rxh3 13. e5 {White wins space} Be7 14. Kg2 {
White threatens to win material: Kg2xh3} Rh4 15. f3 O-O-O 16. Be3 Rh8 17. Nc3
Bb4 (17... Nh6 18. Rad1 $14) 18. Ne4 $16 Kb8 (18... f5 19. Ng5 Nh6 20. Ne6 $16)
19. c3 Be7 20. Rh1 Rxh1 21. Rxh1 Re8 (21... f6 22. Rh7 Bf8 23. Rh8 $18) 22. Rh8
(22. Rh7 $142 $5 f5 23. Ng5 $18) 22... Nf6 $16 23. Rxe8+ Nxe8 24. c4 Kc8 25. f4
Kd7 26. Kf3 Ke6 27. Nc3 {White intends d5} Bb4 28. d5+ Kd7 29. Ne4 cxd5 30.
cxd5 b6 31. a3 Be7 32. b4 Kc8 33. Nc3 Kd7 34. g5 a5 (34... Bd8 $18) 35. bxa5
bxa5 36. a4 Bb4 37. Bd2 Kc8 $2 (37... c5 $142 38. d6 Nxd6 39. exd6 Kxd6 $18)
38. Ke4 Kb7 (38... Kd8 {doesn't improve anything} 39. Kd3 f6 40. Kd4 $18) 39.
Kd4 Kb6 (39... f5 {does not solve anything} 40. Nb1 c5+ 41. Kc4 $18) 40. Ne4
Ba3 41. Kc4 Ka6 42. Nc5+ Kb6 43. Nb3 Kb7 44. Bxa5 Kc8 (44... c6 {
does not win a prize} 45. d6 Bxd6 46. exd6 Nxd6+ 47. Kc5 Ne4+ 48. Kd4 $18) 45.
Kb5 1-0

[kgburcham]

I play a lot of chess. I find that most engines are weak mostly in end game. That's where i like to gave the engine help.

in second game no way in a million years could you guys have found what i believe is winning move for white.
even if you did by looking at my comment on another game of mine,none of you will find the winning line.
this is meant to be be main forum on computer chess.its just not true.

So Paul Watson are you saying that you are so good at corr games and that I am weak enough that you will win 5 out of 5 games?

So Paul Watson are you saying that you are so far advanced that I cannot hold you to a draw?

At what time control?

kgburcham

[NATIONAL12]

I play a lot of chess. I find that most engines are weak mostly in end game. That's where i like to gave the engine help.

in second game no way in a million years could you guys have found what i believe is winning move for white.
even if you did by looking at my comment on another game of mine,none of you will find the winning line.
this is meant to be be main forum on computer chess.its just not true.

So Paul Watson are you saying that you are so good at corr games and that I am weak enough that you will win 5 out of 5 games?

So Paul Watson are you saying that you are so far advanced that I cannot hold you to a draw?

At what time control?

kgburcham

not at all,i dont know if i could beat you or anyone else,what i meant was that even in middle game and esp late middlegame where engines like Rybka and Houdini are supreme there are still occasions when human ingenuity can play a part,(with computer help of course).

when i said nobody would find move x,i meant that no human could find it on his own,and even with computer help it is very very difficult to find even after 20-30 hours messing around on a 12 core.
trust you will accept this explanation as i know i can sound arrogant at times.here is link to game in question if you wish to trawl through it.

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... 21833;pg=1

[Terry McCracken]

I play a lot of chess. I find that most engines are weak mostly in end game. That's where i like to gave the engine help.

to an extent i agree(however i have found that even top 10 GM,s are crap in endgames at match time controls),by far the strongest engine in an endgame i have found is Rybka,anyone who claims that Zappa or Shredder is strong nowadays is talking rubbish.

in team games i have played alongside IGM's and IM,s and in one case i said leave it to me.(i admit neither had computers)
at least you talk sense.Lets have some others reply.

if the other guys on forum are very shy i will post a couple of games where i had to make a decision. ,sorry where in one game i had to play correct move houdini and rybka move lost no matter how deep you go.

in second game no way in a million years could you guys have found what i believe is winning move for white.

even if you did by looking at my comment on another game of mine,none of you will find the winning line.

this is meant to be be main forum on computer chess.its just not true.

I don't know Paul, there are some top corr. players here as well as OTB players.

Although I'm not at the top of my game, I still found a rare win in this game.

http://74.220.23.57/forum/viewtopic.php ... t&start=50

[Event "CCC Forum Challenge "]
[Date "7.03-8.23.2010"]
[White "GM Kaufman"]
[Black "Novag Constellation 3.6"]
[Time Control "3 Min Per Move "]
[Result "1-0"]

1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 e5 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 exd4 7.O-O dxc3 8.Qb3 Qf6 9.e5 Qf5 10.Nxc3 Nge7 11.Ba3 Bxc3 12.Qxc3 b6 13.h3 Bb7 14.Rc1 O-O 15.Rd1 Rfd8 16.Bb2 Qg6 17.Bd3 Qh6 18.Bc1 Qh5 19.Re1 d5 20.Kh2 d4 21.Qa3 Bc8 22.Re4 Bf5 23.g4 Bxg4 24.Rxg4 Nxe5 25.Nxe5 Qxe5+ 26.Bf4 Qc5 27.Qb3 g6 28.Bc4 Nd5 29.Bg5 Rd7 30.h4 Re8 31.h5 Qd6+ 32.Kg2 Qc6 33.Kh2 Re5 34.hxg6 Qxg6 35.Qg3 Rf5 36.Bh4 Rxf2+ 37.Kg1 Rf5 38.Bd3 Nf4 39.Rxg6+ hxg6 40.Qe1 Rfd5 41.Bf6 Ne6 42.Bc4 R5d6 43.Be5 Ng5 44.Qg3 Rc6 45.Qg2 Re7 46.Qxc6 Rxe5 47.Qxg6+ Kf8 48.Qf6 Rc5 49.Qd8+ Kg7 50.Qxd4+ f6 51.Qd7+ Kg6 52.Bd3+ f5 53.Kf2 Kf6 54.Qd8+ Kg6 55.Qe7 1-0

If the f-pawn falls and if you remove both the a7 pawn and the a2 pawn you have a tablebase win. I don't think the Connie can draw, regardless.

[d]8/2p3k1/1p6/2r5/4Q3/8/5K2/8 b - - 0 56

White to Move Win in 37 Moves

Black to move Loss in 48 Moves

[kgburcham]

I play a lot of chess. I find that most engines are weak mostly in end game. That's where i like to gave the engine help.

in second game no way in a million years could you guys have found what i believe is winning move for white.
even if you did by looking at my comment on another game of mine,none of you will find the winning line.
this is meant to be be main forum on computer chess.its just not true.

So Paul Watson are you saying that you are so good at corr games and that I am weak enough that you will win 5 out of 5 games?
So Paul Watson are you saying that you are so far advanced that I cannot hold you to a draw?
At what time control?
kgburcham

not at all,i dont know if i could beat you or anyone else,what i meant was that even in middle game and esp late middlegame where engines like Rybka and Houdini are supreme there are still occasions when human ingenuity can play a part,(with computer help of course).
when i said nobody would find move x,i meant that no human could find it on his own,and even with computer help it is very very difficult to find even after 20-30 hours messing around on a 12 core.
trust you will accept this explanation as i know i can sound arrogant at times.here is link to game in question if you wish to trawl through it.
http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... 21833;pg=1

explanation accepted and appreciated except for your post at the Rybka forum where you called everyone at this forum a watermelon head, or maybe it was a dinosaur, or maybe a bunch of bimbos, no I think it was a group of retards.
Anyway I have a lot of witnesses that will attest that I am none of the above.

kgburcham