Surprise...

[Pablo Vazquez]

Hello Jury, Pablo et al:

I was reading in Open Chess forum a topic about Houdini 2.0 and I discovered a file of two days ago that is claimed to be the code, pseudocode, source, decompilation or whatever it is of Houdini_20_w32 (I do not know if it comes from the official version or the cracked one in another forum). I hope this crossposting is not illegal because who posted it in Open Chess (Matthias Gemuh) also posts here and does an incredible job with Chess GUI (congrats Matthias!). The link is of Hotfile server. The size is 4.92 MB more less. As everybody an see, there is an error at the end of the Notepad:

Code: Select all

#error "There were 98 decompilation failure(s) on 1074 function(s)"

And there are more 'errors' in the Notepad, as the last 'error' tell us.

It would be nice that Mr. Robert Houdart will enlighten us if this Notepad is a leg-pull or not. If not, he can explain the differences (or some of them) between Houdini (a fantastic engine IMO) and IPPOLIT family engines (which are claimed to be derived from, and I have nothing against it) to people that can understand it (not me). I hope this post will be useful.

(Robert, please keep improving Houdini because IMO it is a worthwhile engine).

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

Hi Jesús.

That seems to be indeed the source of Houdini. The problem is that it is the result of a decompiler and the code is totally unreadable, with bogus variable names and unnecessary bloating of code, because IIRC, Houdini duplicates code for each thread.

Regards

[Ajedrecista]

Hello:

Pablo, thanks for explaining it in easy words. Jury, thanks for replying so fast. In the evals posted by Jury, I was unable of getting a function to convert RL scores in H ones, but it is curious that all these evals in both engines (regardless of the sign) are Fibonacci numbers... more examples are needed.

I thought that this last version of Houdini was protected in some way against decompilers, but it took very few time (I am surprised), only a few days. Who knows if this unreadable code (as Pablo stated) could be useful for improving other engines or taking/improving new ideas.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

[geots]

Number 1. If FSF or some court of law disagrees with ICGA, and finds for Vas- you going to accept that ruling, say Fabien had his day in court, smile and not be critical of their decision?

If I want to use it- I will use it. Be sure you understand I want all programs to be legal- but legal or not HAS NO BEARING on whether or not I use it and enjoy it.

And I will continue to use the engines of MY CHOICE, legal or not. If someone thinks badly of me, that's sorta "tough shit". It is not like, after all these years, I am going to wake up in the morning and give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of me. Won't happen.

gts

Of course i will respect the findings of the FSF no matter which way it goes
chances are strong it will go the way of the ICGA though
in the unlikely event that Rybka is found not in violation ..one thing i wont do is start throwing spaghetti all over the walls to see what sticks in an effort to discredit the entire FSF process from start to finish
ill wager mega bucks that there will be some F&F's(Friends and Fans )who will not accept the FSF findings if it does not go their way
F&F's will open up threads of protest in all of the forums ..where the only difference in content from their threads of protest now about the ICGA process will be the replacement of the initials "ICGA" with "FSF"

Its your choice to happily enjoy a knowingly illegal engine George
(if it turns out to be illegal ..that is)
as i said before IMHO ..that is a breakdown in morality and a slap in the face to honest programmers everywhere who try to eek out a living in chess programming

i know i know ..you dont give a rats ass about other hard working honest programmers and their miserable livelihoods or what what anyone thinks anyway..
although you do post alot..and you do reply to folks who respond to your posts..which indicates you do care what others think..unless you just want to hear yourself talk

Regards
Steve

There you are- doing the same damn thing. Do you just respond to a thread, and THEN read it. And if you are going to distort what I said, at least try to hide it better.

I said nothing about not giving a rat's ass about any of the hardworking programmers who were honest, and nothing about their miserable livlihoods. I didn't even USE THOSE WORDS. AND DID NOT SAY IT USING any words. But people will read what you wrote here and assume I did.

But you are real slick. I can't corner you and say you were quoting me, because you will just say that is what you assumed from my post. You play a real cute game.

I asked you before, and you wouldn't answer me. Maybe the 2nd time is a charm. Again- I downloaded Robbo, DeepSaros, Ivanhoe and Fire. You explain how that takes any money out of hardworking programmers' pockets? How does it cost THEM A DIME?

Well I gotta go now and run IvanHoe, even tho my morals will take a heavy hit.

gts

[Harvey Williamson]

Again- I downloaded Robbo, DeepSaros, Ivanhoe and Fire. You explain how that takes any money out of hardworking programmers' pockets? How does it cost THEM A DIME?

Well I gotta go now and run IvanHoe, even tho my morals will take a heavy hit.

gts

Are you really that ignorant that you can not see why?

[geots]

Number 1. If FSF or some court of law disagrees with ICGA, and finds for Vas- you going to accept that ruling, say Fabien had his day in court, smile and not be critical of their decision?

If I want to use it- I will use it. Be sure you understand I want all programs to be legal- but legal or not HAS NO BEARING on whether or not I use it and enjoy it.

And I will continue to use the engines of MY CHOICE, legal or not. If someone thinks badly of me, that's sorta "tough shit". It is not like, after all these years, I am going to wake up in the morning and give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of me. Won't happen.

gts

Of course i will respect the findings of the FSF no matter which way it goes
chances are strong it will go the way of the ICGA though
in the unlikely event that Rybka is found not in violation ..one thing i wont do is start throwing spaghetti all over the walls to see what sticks in an effort to discredit the entire FSF process from start to finish
ill wager mega bucks that there will be some F&F's(Friends and Fans )who will not accept the FSF findings if it does not go their way
F&F's will open up threads of protest in all of the forums ..where the only difference in content from their threads of protest now about the ICGA process will be the replacement of the initials "ICGA" with "FSF"

Its your choice to happily enjoy a knowingly illegal engine George
(if it turns out to be illegal ..that is)
as i said before IMHO ..that is a breakdown in morality and a slap in the face to honest programmers everywhere who try to eek out a living in chess programming

i know i know ..you dont give a rats ass about other hard working honest programmers and their miserable livelihoods or what what anyone thinks anyway..
although you do post alot..and you do reply to folks who respond to your posts..which indicates you do care what others think..unless you just want to hear yourself talk

Regards
Steve

It must be very rare indeed in a minor case such as this one for a panel of experts of that quality to focus in the intense way in which those that supplied the ICGA with evidence focussed on Rybka. Either way, the findings were clear and a court is not going to be able to refute that evidence, especially as Vas will be required to show source code that his sidekick, Cimiotti, conveniently confirmed was still in Rajlich’s possession at the time of the enquiry.

If a court case turns out favourably for Rajlich, although the Rybka forum members will have a gigantic collective and simultaneous orgasm irrespective of how it was arrived at, some of us will think carefully before accepting it as significant. The difference between legality and justice may mean that he can wriggle away on a legal technicality. If he does, many of us will not respect a legal rather than a just ruling.

George has told us that he posts his “stuff” because Vas once sent him some nice emails. Plenty of con men are adept at sending out nice emails and so it is fortunate that most of us base our allegiances on more sophisticated considerations.

Many of Rajlich’s apologists base their positions on the notion that this was a victimless crime. It was not a victimless crime. If code was stolen and abused in the way that now seems certain, there were many victims. They include engine authors who lost money, tournament directors who were deceived, competitors who were deprived of prizes and end-users who were sold products under false pretences. Perhaps such considerations do not bother George because he has his emails to treasure.

That was the most idiotic and untrue statement I believe I have ever heard from you. Do you just make it up as you go along? I once said Vas always responded to an email from me within 24 hrs. I thought that was nice.

I defy you to find ONE DAMNED THREAD that says I post "stuff" in his favor because of any emails. It's not there, and you are lying thru your teeth.

I said many times that I support him because he is my friend. And I don't abandon my friends when they have tough times. And I resent your goddam lies.

GTS

[Harvey Williamson]

I once said Vas always responded to an email from me within 24 hrs. I thought that was nice.

GTS

Vas has always replied to my emails within 24 hours and I think he is a nice guy.

If Mark had been found guilty by the ICGA, I would demand an immediate explanation from him and if none was receieved that was acceptable i would stop working on Hiarcs.

We are still waiting for a responce from vas.

[K I Hyams]

That was the most idiotic and untrue statement I believe I have ever heard from you. Do you just make it up as you go along? I once said Vas always responded to an email from me within 24 hrs. I thought that was nice.

I defy you to find ONE DAMNED THREAD that says I post "stuff" in his favor because of any emails. It's not there, and you are lying thru your teeth.

I said many times that I support him because he is my friend. And I don't abandon my friends when they have tough times. And I resent your goddam lies.
GTS

George,
I have reposted, immediately below this, the comment to which you took exception. Any normal person who read the quote below and is aware of the material that you post would infer from the comment that, as a consequence of what you considered to be pleasant email exchanges, you felt some loyalty to Vas and therefore posted in his support. In other words, more or less what you have just explained.

My mistake was to assume that my post would only be read by normal people.

George has told us that he posts his “stuff” because Vas once sent him some nice emails.

[geots]

I once said Vas always responded to an email from me within 24 hrs. I thought that was nice.

GTS

Vas has always replied to my emails within 24 hours and I think he is a nice guy.

If Mark had been found guilty by the ICGA, I would demand an immediate explanation from him and if none was receieved that was acceptable i would stop working on Hiarcs.

We are still waiting for a responce from vas.

I agree. I don't know why we are constantly at each other's throats. I don't know why we can't be friends, and both realize we won't always agree on everything.

I am willing to meet you halfway if you feel like it. None of this is worth losing a friendship over.

Best To You,

gts

[Alexander Schmidt]

I said many times that I support him because he is my friend. And I don't abandon my friends when they have tough times. And I resent your goddam lies.

Yes, VR is a really nice guy. But you should ask yourself: Is he nice because he is just a nice guy, or is he nice because he want's your money and in reality he is laughing about you because you spent more than 100 bucks for a copy of an open source engine.

Sorry for the provoking question. It shall not judge the Rybka case. I just want to question your friendship to someone you can't really know. Be always careful with internet friends...

Alex

[Albert Silver]

I said many times that I support him because he is my friend. And I don't abandon my friends when they have tough times. And I resent your goddam lies.

Yes, VR is a really nice guy. But you should ask yourself: Is he nice because he is just a nice guy, or is he nice because he want's your money and in reality he is laughing about you because you spent more than 100 bucks for a copy of an open source engine.

Strange copy that is 350 Elo stronger.