Surprise...

[geots]

Thanks. That's quite convincing. I didn't look at this Robbo

Jesus.....please f***ing save us from the shit......

Febuary 2011......

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... t&start=50

No wait.....May 2010......

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 00&t=34333

Maybe we should make a sticky saying something like Houdart is a talentless little prick. Then we would no longer need to be reminded of it every 6 months or so.

If some idiot wants to pay for something that the guy did not write and knows next to zero about, then they deserve to lose their money.

There are quite a few dickheads like that in here Alex.

I like watching them spend there money like that. Please dont stop them. To me its almost a sport. Best idiotic buyer etc etc....



Chris

Chris, you and I are friends. I have always envied your overall knowledge of computer chess. If I could copy and paste anyone's knowledge- it would be yours. You may not be a "top programmer", but you know more about a lot of different aspects than most anyone I have run across.

But from where I'm sitting on this issue- you left out one major point. And you can rake me over the coals, but I don't care any longer. I do not want to dig up bones, but can't make my point w/o mentioning it- so let's leave it at that. Evidence can be interpreted different ways by different............... ok with you if I call them experts? I have my own ideas about the Rybka issue, and I am sick of the whole thing. Hyatt, Zach, Dailey and Watkins say he is guilty. Miguel, Sven, Whittington say wait just a damn minute here- you don't KNOW anything. Then Kaufman says no doubt Vas probably took things that went too far. But in his opinion it was just to cut corners and save time- nothing that had any bearing on Rybka's strength. He says all that came from Vas and his abilities.

So now we are starting the whole mess over again. Everyone seems to be of the opinion that all the "Ippos" are whatever it is they shouldn't be. Kaufman tells me it would be extremely hard to prove a case ag. them, however. But he doesn't say they are clean either.

And I am well aware of the supposed ties between those engines and Houdini. So now we can all cut Robert down to size.

But I am also aware of something else. When Robert came out with Houdini 2, I was trying to decide what to do. And when I woke up the next morning, it was crystal clear. I bought Houdini 2 on the basis that he's an honest man with an honest program. So IF it comes out I was wrong- I don't give a shit. It will still play the same game it did when I bought it. Same for all the Rybka versions from 1.0 beta thru 4.1 that I enjoyed, still enjoy, and was lucky enough not to have to spend a dime on.

Then I went straight to the sight, and downloaded Ivanhoe, Robbolito and the Fire versions. And I am running them all for myself only, along with the Rybkas and Houdinis. And I have never had as much fun as I am having right now. Free or not, clone or not, copied and pasted or not, clean of this and that, or not> I am having fun and enjoying them. The only thing I actually know for sure is none are a clone of Crafty.

Not trying to cast dispersions on anyone- but I got a thousand bucks if you want to take a chance on winning it. You get the 4 top commercial engines that 10 years ago were all sold by Chessbase, add the main Lokasoft sold program- then you have 5. Set them up, get your experts together, and go over them as Rybka was done. So if there was something in an 8 year old version of one that should not have been there- this guy bites the dust. He is history. Point is, I will bet the thousand bucks that at least 1 of them is in the same boat with Rybka. I would actually be shocked if it was JUST 1. More like 2 or 3. But the point is, I AM NOT SAYING THEY WOULD BE GUILTY OF ANYTHING REALLY WRONG- JUST THAT THEY WOULD BE IN THE SAME BOAT WITH RYBKA. Anyone want a shot at the gold- simply get in line and put up your money. Like they say, "Money talks and bullshit walks."

And in closing, now I hear a couple guys saying Komodo is highly suspect. Jesus- will people ever take a rest! One says white- the other says black. One says up- the other says down. One says hot- the other says cold. I am sick to shit of the whole sorry mess. So it was either walk away for good- or the option I chose. I ask for nothing. I take what is free, buy what I want, and enjoy what little time a 62 year old idiot has left.



Robbo leading Patriot regards,

gts

[Steve B]

I bought Houdini 2 on the basis that he's an honest man with an honest program. So IF it comes out I was wrong- I don't give a shit. It will still play the same game it did when I bought it. Same for all the Rybka versions from 1.0 beta thru 4.1 that I enjoyed, still enjoy, and was lucky enough not to have to spend a dime on.

Then I went straight to the sight, and downloaded Ivanhoe, Robbolito and the Fire versions. And I am running them all for myself only, along with the Rybkas and Houdinis. And I have never had as much fun as I am having right now. Free or not, clone or not, copied and pasted or not, clean of this and that, or not> I am having fun and enjoying them.

Yup thats the way it is these days
if the rating is high enough who cares if its an illegal clone or derivative or whatever
you are having fun

same is true for professional sports nowadays
there are folks who could care less if athletes are jazzed up on steroids ..just as long as they can watch Bobby Bonds smack those homerun balls over the fence

the problem is some athletes and programmers try very hard to do it the old fashion way...
on their own..without cheating..and this is a slap in the face to them
sorry to say this is just another breakdown of morality..IMHO

enjoy your new ..strongest program

BTW..George...you made alot of noise about trying to get Rajlich to finally speak out and defend himself..to participate in his own defense
im guessing he wasn't interested since you haven't mentioned it again

Not Surprised Regards
Steve

[Alexander Schmidt]

Why don't we just hex edit Houdini and make some cash out of these airheads?

Why not think big? Let's hack windows, publish it as public domain from a russian site and then sell it here under the name HOP (Houdini Operating System) We can use Robbo then as chess engine for the build in chess program

[marcelk]

only the copyright holder of a GPL license can complain, this is stated clearly.

I think you are misinformed. Can you point out where that is stated clearly?
The rights that the GPL gives transfer to the users of the work or a derivative of it.

[Alexander Schmidt]

[Exactly what I thought too. But can you take public domain code and modify it a little and then stick a GPL license to it? I think Robbolito is just a small modification of Ippolit, so if Robbolito is useful to Houdini then Robert could just as easily go back to the code base of Ippolit. Since Vas has not taken legal action against Ippolit, that code base is and will stay as public domain. Since it is public domain, everyone and anyone can use it without worry of breaking any license.

Sometimes I think we need an IT law firm to wade through this forum .

You don't need a lawyer, it's quite easy.

1st: An engine can't be public domain when it contains copyrighted code

2nd: If someone takes public domain code, he can do whatever he wants with it. it's like his own code. If someone spends a lot of time to translate the unreadable ippolit code, he can of course publish it under gpl. To be correct only the changed code is GPL'ed then. It is not allowed for someone to use this GPL'ed code as public domain.

3rd: If someone uses public domain and republishes it, no matter commercial or free, he is liable for the code. If the public domain code violates copyrights, the new released code does as well.

so if Robbolito is useful to Houdini then Robert could just as easily go back to the code base of Ippolit. Since Vas has not taken legal action against Ippolit, that code base is and will stay as public domain.

If it would be as easy like that, why didn't he use ippolit code? Because it was not readable. The translation was some kind of effort he illegally used.

BTW: afaik only Ippolit was public domain. Some derivates where published without copyright regulation, that doesn't mean it is public domain.

[Don]

Hi,

I don't think Houdini is illegal and anybody who is complaining that it's illegal is an idiot.

I would like to see the situation resolved regardless of what happens. Since it's clear that Houdini is a close derivative work of the Ippo family, there is no modern representative of the Fruit family of programs that is going to be allowed in tournaments, at least the important tournaments.

The legality of Houdini is not the issue, it would still be in violation of ICGA rules to take Ivanhoe and enter it as if it were your own.

So I don't like it when a top program cannot compete - as I have my own aspirations of being the top program and surpassing Houdini. I would feel like Karpov must have felt when Bobby Fischer refused to play. However I agree and respect the ICGA ruling - it's absolutely correct. Programs should not be allowed or disallowed based on their strength.

The solution around this is to allow one program to represent the Fruit family and that program could be Houdini. But Houdart would have to be wiling to share authorship and credit - which he is too proud to do.

It's quite ironic to me that the programmers behind the Ippo programs have this anti-capitalistic philosophy and were driven to do what they did in part because of this - and what has happened instead is that they have in turn been raped and plundered in the name of capitalism. They now have a single person who has taken their hard work and profited from it. Somehow I don't think this is what they had in mind ....

First, what can you do? Take Robert to the court? You can't hurt his sales by whinging here. You have to make something better than Houdini. Second, only the copyright holder of a GPL license can complain, this is stated clearly. Do you know exactly who published GPL Robblitto and does he care? If he doesn't, why should you?

[kinderchocolate]

only the copyright holder of a GPL license can complain, this is stated clearly.

I think you are misinformed. Can you point out where that is stated clearly?
The rights that the GPL gives transfer to the users of the work or a derivative of it.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.html

The copyright holder is the one who is legally authorized to take action to enforce the license.

[Don]

[Exactly what I thought too. But can you take public domain code and modify it a little and then stick a GPL license to it? I think Robbolito is just a small modification of Ippolit, so if Robbolito is useful to Houdini then Robert could just as easily go back to the code base of Ippolit. Since Vas has not taken legal action against Ippolit, that code base is and will stay as public domain. Since it is public domain, everyone and anyone can use it without worry of breaking any license.

Sometimes I think we need an IT law firm to wade through this forum .

You don't need a lawyer, it's quite easy.

1st: An engine can't be public domain when it contains copyrighted code

2nd: If someone takes public domain code, he can do whatever he wants with it. it's like his own code. If someone spends a lot of time to translate the unreadable ippolit code, he can of course publish it under gpl. To be correct only the changed code is GPL'ed then. It is not allowed for someone to use this GPL'ed code as public domain.

3rd: If someone uses public domain and republishes it, no matter commercial or free, he is liable for the code. If the public domain code violates copyrights, the new released code does as well.

so if Robbolito is useful to Houdini then Robert could just as easily go back to the code base of Ippolit. Since Vas has not taken legal action against Ippolit, that code base is and will stay as public domain.

If it would be as easy like that, why didn't he use ippolit code? Because it was not readable. The translation was some kind of effort he illegally used.

BTW: afaik only Ippolit was public domain. Some derivates where published without copyright regulation, that doesn't mean it is public domain.

The legalities of this are not completely clear to me. I know that the copyright holder has the right to change the licence, but if it first gets distributed as public domain I don't see how that can be practical. The cat is out of the bag. It's not relevant whether Ippo is itself a clone because that has not been legally established.

A much bigger issue for me is the ethical side of this. Unfortunately in the world today people are hardly ever concerned about ethics - it's all about what you can get away with legally. In politics we see all kinds of wrongdoing but the defense is, "I did nothing legally wrong!"

[Alexander Schmidt]

It's not relevant whether Ippo is itself a clone because that has not been legally established.

Not at the moment, but as soon as someone would take legal action against the ippolit publishers, all redistributers would also be liable. They could get out without criminal conviction in case they can plausibly assure that they where not aware of the copyright violations. But this would be nearly impossible in the ippolit case with all the data in the web

[Don]

It's not relevant whether Ippo is itself a clone because that has not been legally established.

Not at the moment, but as soon as someone would take legal action against the ippolit publishers, all redistributers would also be liable. They could get out without criminal conviction in case they can plausibly assure that they where not aware of the copyright violations. But this would be nearly impossible in the ippolit case with all the data in the web

In my opinion now the only one who could go after Ipppolit is Fabien and he would have an uphill struggle to prove it's a derivative. It's a heavily modified copy of a heavily modified copy of Fruit.

Perhaps after the Rybka case he could then make the case that Ippo is derived from Rybka and that would be good enough but in my opinion he would have an uphill battle and by the time it's all over with Houdini will be a long forgotten memory. This has turned into a multi-headed monster.

I think the best defense is to wait for Komodo, Critter, Stockfish and hopefully others to surpass Houdini.