Chess Tiger vs Sargon III (Apple II)

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JuLieN
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Chess Tiger vs Sargon III (Apple II)

Post by JuLieN » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:49 pm

In 1997-1998, Ed Shröder and Christophe Théron started an interesting experiment: a correspondance game between Sargon III running at its highest level (Level 9) on a 1MHz Apple II, against Chess Tiger playing white on a 100MHz K5 PC. As far as I know, the game sadly stopped after white's 26th move when the game was about to enter the ending phase, Tiger having a slight edge over Sargon III.

Here's the game, gathered from Talkchess' archives:


[Event "Correspondance game"]
[Site "Internet"]
[Date "1998.01.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Chess Tiger K5 100Mhz 256Kb hash 1h/game"]
[Black "Sargon III Apple 2e 24h+/move"]
[Result "*"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 b6 3. Nf3 Bb7 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 e5 6. Nf5 Nf6
7. Bg5 h6 8. Bxf6 Qxf6 9. Nb5 Kd8 10. Nfd6 Bc6 11. Bc4 Bxb5
12. Nxb5 Bb4+ 13. c3 Bc5 14. 0-0 a6 15. Qd5 Nc6 16. Rad1 Qe6
17. Qxc5 bxc5 18. Bxe6 fxe6 19. Nd6 Ke7 20. Rd2 Rab8 21. f3 Rhf8
22. Rfd1 h5 23. Nc4 Rbd8 24. Nb6 Nb8 25. Kf2 g5 26. Na4 *

And the final position:
[d]1n1r1r2/3pk3/p3p3/2p1p1pp/N3P3/2P2P2/PP1R1KPP/3R4 b - - 1 26

After a 30s long search, Prédateur would play 26. ..., Rc8 (= +0.14)
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
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Will Singleton
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Re: Chess Tiger vs Sargon III (Apple II)

Post by Will Singleton » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:39 am

I could probably get Sargon running on an apple2, if you want to continue the game. Looks like black doesn't have much chance, but maybe could get a draw out of it.

Will

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JuLieN
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Re: Chess Tiger vs Sargon III (Apple II)

Post by JuLieN » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:48 am

Will Singleton wrote:I could probably get Sargon running on an apple2, if you want to continue the game. Looks like black doesn't have much chance, but maybe could get a draw out of it.

Will
The problem would be to get the 1997's Chess Tiger (which version was that?) running on a 100MHz K5 (where can we find those ones anymore?).

Another idea would be to run a new game between Sargon III and a modern Chess Tiger (I don't own it. Who does?). Maybe another engine than Tiger would be more exciting ?

For example, the Amiga version of Sargon III would run very *very* fast under WinUAE, because WinUAE has a just-in-time compiler. Last time I tried WinUAE Amiga test softwares were reporting running something like a 2GHz 68040 ^^

As there is only a very small speed penalty between a WInUAEed Sargon (resulting from the big-indian/small-Indian conversion), and an x86 engine, we could give Sargon III only twice the time of the x86 engine. For a correspondence game, that could be: 5 hours for the X86 engine, 10 hours for Sargon III, for instance ?

EDIT: why not Sargon III - Stockfish 2.01, for instance? :)
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
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geots
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Re: Chess Tiger vs Sargon III (Apple II)

Post by geots » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:03 am

JuLieN wrote:
Will Singleton wrote:I could probably get Sargon running on an apple2, if you want to continue the game. Looks like black doesn't have much chance, but maybe could get a draw out of it.

Will
The problem would be to get the 1997's Chess Tiger (which version was that?) running on a 100MHz K5 (where can we find those ones anymore?).

Another idea would be to run a new game between Sargon III and a modern Chess Tiger (I don't own it. Who does?). Maybe another engine than Tiger would be more exciting ?

For example, the Amiga version of Sargon III would run very *very* fast under WinUAE, because WinUAE has a just-in-time compiler. Last time I tried WinUAE Amiga test softwares were reporting running something like a 2GHz 68040 ^^

As there is only a very small speed penalty between a WInUAEed Sargon (resulting from the big-indian/small-Indian conversion), and an x86 engine, we could give Sargon III only twice the time of the x86 engine. For a correspondence game, that could be: 5 hours for the X86 engine, 10 hours for Sargon III, for instance ?

EDIT: why not Sargon III - Stockfish 2.01, for instance? :)


Julien, I have Chess Tiger 2007 and 2007.1 I really don't know if they are the latest, as I have been out of the loop for a while. They are UCI. I certainly don't mind letting you borrow it just for this game. And I know Christophe wouldn't mind.

PM me and let me know if you need my heklp.


Best,

gts

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Mike S.
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Re: Chess Tiger vs Sargon III (Apple II)

Post by Mike S. » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:11 am

ImageImage
Regards, Mike

kgburcham
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test position from Chess Tiger vs Sargon III

Post by kgburcham » Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:48 am

In 1997-1998, Ed Shröder and Christophe Théron started an interesting experiment
17.Qxc5
[D] r2k3r/3p1pp1/ppn1q2p/1NbQp3/2B1P3/2P5/PP3PPP/3R1RK1 w - -

[Event "Correspondance game"]
[Site "Internet"]
[Date "1998.01.01"]
[White "Chess Tiger K5 100Mhz 256Kb hash 1h/gam"]
[Black "Sargon III Apple 2e 24h+/move"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 b6 3. Nf3 Bb7 4. d4 cxd4 5. Nxd4 e5 6. Nf5
Nf6 7. Bg5 h6 8. Bxf6 Qxf6 9. Nb5 Kd8 10. Nfd6 Bc6 11. Bc4
Bxb5 12. Nxb5 Bb4+ 13. c3 Bc5 14. O-O a6 15. Qd5 Nc6
16. Rad1 Qe6 17. Qxc5 bxc5 18. Bxe6 fxe6 19. Nd6 Ke7
20. Rd2 Rab8 21. f3 Rhf8 22. Rfd1 h5 23. Nc4 Rbd8 24. Nb6
Nb8 25. Kf2 g5 26. Na4 *

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Eelco de Groot
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Re: test position from Chess Tiger vs Sargon III

Post by Eelco de Groot » Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:06 pm

17. Qxc5 does seem a bit optimistic.

Rainbow Serpent does not want to play the Queen exchange:

r2k3r/3p1pp1/ppn1q2p/1NbQp3/2B1P3/2P5/PP3PPP/3R1RK1 w - -

Engine: eXperimental Tommy Cooper - Rainbow Serpent Build 335 (Athlon 2009 MHz, 256 MB) by Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba, Joona Kiiski

1/01 0:00 +1.93 17.Qd3 (2.654) 12

2/11 0:00 +2.02 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 axb5 19.Bxc6 Rxa2
20.Qxd7+ Qxd7 21.Rxd7+ Ke8 22.b4 (14.164) 56

3/08 0:00 +1.97 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Na3 Bxa3 19.bxa3 Kc7
20.Qd5 Rhd8 (19.574) 73

4/10 0:00 +2.10 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Qf6 19.Bb3 Qe7
20.Na3 Bxa3 21.bxa3 Kc7 (23.925) 89

5/10 0:00 +1.97 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Qf6 19.Bb3 Qe7
20.Na3 Bxa3 21.bxa3 Kc7 (27.281) 97

6/09 0:00 +1.98 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Qf6 19.Bb3 Qe7
20.Qd5 axb5 21.Qxc6 (42.243) 134

7/11 0:00 +2.16++ 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Rc8 19.Bxc6 Rxc6
20.Na7 Rd6 21.Qxa6 Bxf2+ 22.Kxf2 (48.303) 147

7/11 0:00 +2.24++ 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Rc8 19.Bxc6 Rxc6
20.Na7 Rd6 21.Qxa6 Bxf2+ 22.Kxf2 (52.741) 153

7/11 0:00 +2.48++ 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Rc8 19.Bxc6 Rxc6
20.Na7 Rd6 21.Qxa6 Bxf2+ 22.Kxf2 (57.803) 161

7/11 0:00 +2.21 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 axb5 19.Bxc6 Rxa2
20.Qxd7+ Qxd7 21.Rxd7+ Ke8 22.Rfd1 (59.518) 165

8/10 0:00 +1.93-- 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.b4 axb5
20.bxc5 bxc5 21.Bxc6 dxc6 (92.486) 211

8/10 0:00 +1.73 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Nd6 Qxd6 19.Qxd6 Bxd6
20.Rxd6 Kc7 21.Rfd1 Nd4 (123.171) 246

9/12 0:00 +1.69 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.Na3 Bxa3
20.bxa3 Kc7 21.Bb3 f6 22.a4 d6 (260.420) 320

10/15 0:01 +1.65 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.Na3 Bxa3
20.bxa3 Kc7 21.a4 Rhb8 22.Rd2 Qd6
23.Rfd1 Rf8 24.a5 (368.016) 346

11/15 0:02 +1.60 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Na3 Bxa3 19.bxa3 Kc7
20.Bxa6 Rhd8 21.a4 Qc5 22.Bb5 d6
23.Qf3 f6 24.Rd5 (935.009) 424

12/13 0:03 +1.61 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.Na3 Bxa3
20.bxa3 Kc7 21.a4 Rhc8 22.a3 f6
23.a5 (1.669.608) 432

13/13 0:03 +1.61 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.Na3 Bxa3
20.bxa3 Kc7 21.a4 Rhc8 22.a3 f6
23.a5 (1.682.255) 430

14/13 0:03 +1.61 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.Na3 Bxa3
20.bxa3 Kc7 21.a4 Rhc8 22.a3 f6
23.a5 (1.698.704) 429

15/09 0:04 +1.69++ 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Rd8 21.b4 (1.866.705) 429

15/09 0:04 +1.77++ 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Rd8 21.b4 (1.933.044) 429

15/09 0:04 +1.93++ 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Rd8 21.b4 (2.100.599) 432

15/27 0:06 +2.04 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Kc7
23.Bxc6 dxc6 24.Rd7+ Kb8 25.bxc6 Ra2
26.c7+ Ka8 27.Rxe7 Qxe7 28.c8Q+ Rxc8
29.Qxc8+ Ka7 30.Qc4 (2.794.488) 436

16/23 0:07 +2.14 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Kc7
23.Bxc6 dxc6 24.Rd7+ Kb8 25.bxc6 Ra4
26.Rb7+ Ka8 27.Qd7 Bd6 28.c7 (3.173.208) 438

17/27 0:21 +1.97 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Qf6 19.b4 Bxb4
20.Bb3 Qe7 21.cxb4 axb5 22.Qxb5 Kc7
23.Qc4 Kb8 24.b5 Nd4 25.Rxd4 exd4
26.Qxd4 Qc5 27.Qxg7 Kc7 28.Bd5 Raf8
29.Bxf7 Qxb5 30.Rc1+ (9.795.650) 449

18/22 1:00 +1.87 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Qf6 19.b4 Bxb4
20.Bb3 Qe7 21.cxb4 axb5 22.Qxb5 Kc7
23.Qc4 Qxb4 24.Qxf7 Qe7 25.Qf5 Ra5
26.Bd5 Nd4 27.Rc1+ Rc5 (27.898.132) 458

19/17 1:02 +2.12++ 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Qf6 19.b4 Bxb4
20.Bb3 Qe7 21.cxb4 axb5 22.Qxb5 Kc7
23.Rc1 f6 24.Bd5 Qd6 25.Rfd1 (28.494.278) 457

19/17 1:29 +2.35 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 Kb8
20.b4 axb5 21.axb5 Bxb4 22.Qg3 Qg5
23.Qxg5 hxg5 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 (40.180.598) 447

20/17 1:30 +2.35 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 Kb8
20.b4 axb5 21.axb5 Bxb4 22.Qg3 Qg5
23.Qxg5 hxg5 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 (40.567.996) 447

21/35 1:42 +2.33 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Qh4
23.Qxh4 Bxh4 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 Ra7
26.Ra1 Rxa1 27.Rxa1 Kc7 28.Bd5 Rc8
29.g3 Bg5 30.Bxf7 (46.275.984) 452

22/35 1:45 +2.33 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Qh4
23.Qxh4 Bxh4 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 Ra7
26.Ra1 Rxa1 27.Rxa1 Kc7 28.Bd5 Rc8
29.g3 Bg5 30.Bxf7 (48.013.219) 453

23/35 1:52 +2.33 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Qh4
23.Qxh4 Bxh4 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 Ra7
26.Ra1 Rxa1 27.Rxa1 Kc7 28.Bd5 Rc8
29.g3 Bg5 30.Bxf7 (50.924.313) 454

24/20 2:07 +2.33 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Qh4
23.Qxh4 Bxh4 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 Ra7
26.Ra1 Rxa1 (58.053.877) 455

25/20 3:55 +2.33 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Qh4
23.Qxh4 Bxh4 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 Ra7
26.Ra1 Rxa1 (108.536.128) 460

26/20 4:25 +2.43 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Qh4
23.Qxh4 Bxh4 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 Ra7
26.Ra1 Rxa1 (121.843.937) 459

27/30 18:42 +2.42 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.b4 Be7 22.Qh3 Qh4
23.Qxh4 Bxh4 24.bxc6 dxc6 25.Bxc6 Ra7
26.Ra1 Rxa1 27.Rxa1 Rd8 28.Bd5 Rd7
29.g3 Bf6 30.c4 (511.785.143) 456

28/12 26:57 +2.26-- 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Kc8 19.a4 axb5
20.axb5 Qf6 21.bxc6 dxc6 22.b4 Be7 (637.092.132) 393

28/15 34:26 +2.33 17.Qd3 Qe7 18.Bd5 Qf6 19.b4 Bxb4
20.Bb3 Qe7 21.cxb4 axb5 22.Qxb5 Kc7
23.Rc1 Ra7 24.Bd5
{[D]7r/r1kpqpp1/1pn4p/1Q1Bp3/1P2P3/8/P4PPP/2R2RK1 b - - 0 1 If this position had occurred in the game White would have had good chances but sometimes especially in unclear positions the PV is a complete pipe dream, which sadly can make both debugging and actually trying to use an engine more or less a hopeless venture. Rainbow Serpent now says the game could have continued from here with:

19/26 11:53 -3.95 24...Rb7 25.Bxc6 dxc6 26.Rxc6+ Kb8
27.Rxb6 Rxb6 28.Qxb6+ Qb7 29.Qc5 Qc7
30.Qb5+ Ka7 31.Rd1 Rd8 32.Rxd8 Qxd8
33.Qc5+ Ka6 34.g3 Qd1+ 35.Kg2 Qd4
36.Qc6+ Ka7 37.a3

20/14 14:13 -4.15 24...Rb7 25.Bxc6 dxc6 26.Rxc6+ Kb8
27.Rxb6 Rxb6 28.Qxb6+ Qb7 29.Qc5 Qc7
30.Qb5+ Ka7 31.Rd1

21/26 18:57 -4.43 24...Rb7 25.Bxc6 dxc6 26.Rxc6+ Kb8
27.Rxb6 f6 28.Rd1 Rc8 29.g3 h5 30.a3 h4
31.gxh4 Rcc7 32.Rxb7+ Rxb7 33.Qa5 Rc7
34.Qb6+ Kc8 35.a4 Rb7 36.Qc6+ Kb8
37.b5

22/26 19:13 -4.43 24...Rb7 25.Bxc6 dxc6 26.Rxc6+ Kb8
27.Rxb6 f6 28.Rd1 Rc8 29.g3 h5 30.a3 h4
31.gxh4 Rcc7 32.Rxb7+ Rxb7 33.Qa5 Rc7
34.Qb6+ Kc8 35.a4 Rb7 36.Qc6+ Kb8
37.b5 (304.479.715) 263

23/09 19:31 -4.43 24...Rb7 25.Bxc6 dxc6 26.Rxc6+ Kb8
27.Rxb6 Rxb6 28.Qxb6+ Qb7
}
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

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fern
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Re: Chess Tiger vs Sargon III (Apple II)

Post by fern » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:20 pm

Run Sargon against your Predator......

Fern

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