Code comparison with Rybka, Houdini, then Chiron

[Frank Quisinsky]

- 9,99
SELF MATE
Sorry Terry!

[tano-urayoan]

At this moment in time we are checking (in Scotland) to see whether the Spanish side is really Barcelona (but disguised as Spain). We are of the opinion that it is really Catalonia under a shirt without blue stripes.

Yep minus Messi.

[Alexander Schmidt]

But, seriously Graham, is there a program 98% copied from another? I have not ever seen made such a point.

You have seen the fact that Houdini is based on the Ipp*** family. So 100% was copied. Houdini 1.0 is so close to Robbo that it is probably still far over 90% Ipp*** code. But that's speculation. It still could be in that range in the latest version, at least in the chessplaying part without the new feature implementations.

We should be careful. Do you want 10 new commercial releases in 1 year with a slightly changed Ippp*** or Stockfish code? Probably not. So we should at least try to find out what a new engine is or computerchess will SOON die. There will be no real new engine projects because they sink between all the clones which are done with little efforts. Every engine will play the same, no more variety. Do you want this?

Bashing, denouncing and insulting people who don't want this and ask questions and show FACTS is the complet wrong way. It encourages people to release their own Ipp*** clone, and nobody will have a look at it. Some airheads will buy everything and make tournaments only between the same engines with different name and adjustment. Well I don't care much about this airheads but I care about a variety in the chessengines and NEW ideas and developments.

[Thomas Mayer]

I dont understand the difference between suspecting Houdini or suspecting Chiron.

kgburcham

One is proven the other is not (in fact its not even close).

Happy? God I f***ing hope so. Its a quality answer.



Chris

you did not answer the question.
I said what is the difference in the suspecting of each, before the proof.

kgburcham

There was always a lot of proof before the engines were directly inspected. Currently you can't present anything (lines, positions, analysis etc. etc.) that would support that Chiron, Fritz, Junior, Hiarcs, Shredder, Kommodo, Chiron, Stockfish etc. is a clone of something. So why should anyone take a very close look ? It is very time consuming, would you pay him ?

Greets, Thomas

[Terry McCracken]

- 9,99
SELF MATE
Sorry Terry!

You have to be kidding? I really hope these crooks wind up in jail! I know it won't happen but it might wake a lot of people up!

[Hood]

Due to the immense amount of work involved, you only check whether there is shit inside if you can smell it outside.

.

The smell is not enough.

You know:
1+1= 2 +0 = 0+2= 1.5 + 0.5 etc.

The smell(result) is the same but the way to reach it is differrent.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Terry,

computer chess is now a long time not really organized. That's the main problem, most what we have is organized by private persons. Anyone can do what he wants. Everyone is right. With or without ICGA.

No clear line.
To many individuals.
Womens are extinct, only bulls ...

That is just what trouble maker and profit searcher waiting for.

What can we do?
To pick up the nitty-gritty.

Best
Frank

PS:
In Arena time many users asked for the sources. If Martin gave his sources in 2006 ... help ... what for a chaos will be produced.

[Don]

Karl, you are not careful enough. You should follow my steps and burn also Mychess by Kittinger, 1980 version. I smell a rat there. Colossus IV, for Atari, is suspicious. Maybe Bryant stole something from Fidelity 3, who knows. Destroy it too if you have it.
I am right now, as I write, burning in a great fire in my garden old wooden boards that maybe were copied from a previous design. The pieces are already in the furnace.

Nothing is enough regards
Fern

Stop being ridiculous about it Fern. What? Everytime we nab a suspect accuse everyone to be sure and nab them???

Arrest Society Regards...

Fern is intellectually dishonest and is now using a tactic of ridicule and ad hominem attacks.

There is some irony here. Many years ago senator McCarthy used fear of communism as a club to beat people up - accusing practically everyone as being a "communist" or having communist ties in order to benefit from the fears people of the time were having in the US.

This unpleasant era is etched deeply in the consciousness of everyone, so now Fern and others are using the SAME tactic in a form of reverse McCarthyism. Their game now is to accuse everyone of being a "chess McCarthyist" to beat them up with insults and ridicule. The idea is to try to make you believe that there is a Hyatt mafia who is going after every program author and that just makes them look like complete asses to even imply that.

[bhlangonijr]

Karl, you are not careful enough. You should follow my steps and burn also Mychess by Kittinger, 1980 version. I smell a rat there. Colossus IV, for Atari, is suspicious. Maybe Bryant stole something from Fidelity 3, who knows. Destroy it too if you have it.
I am right now, as I write, burning in a great fire in my garden old wooden boards that maybe were copied from a previous design. The pieces are already in the furnace.

Nothing is enough regards
Fern

Stop being ridiculous about it Fern. What? Everytime we nab a suspect accuse everyone to be sure and nab them???

Arrest Society Regards...

Fern is intellectually dishonest and is now using a tactic of ridicule and ad hominem attacks.

There is some irony here. Many years ago senator McCarthy used fear of communism as a club to beat people up - accusing practically everyone as being a "communist" or having communist ties in order to benefit from the fears people of the time were having in the US.

This unpleasant era is etched deeply in the consciousness of everyone, so now Fern and others are using the SAME tactic in a form of reverse McCarthyism. Their game now is to accuse everyone of being a "chess McCarthyist" to beat them up with insults and ridicule. The idea is to try to make you believe that there is a Hyatt mafia who is going after every program author and that just makes them look like complete asses to even imply that.

Not to say using the name of SCIENCE and its progress to justify the act of cloning and copying other's work. He talks as if every new step on science is made on costs of plagiarizing and copying other's work, generalizing the exception just to make it fit in his argument. And HE is bored with everyone who is trying to stand against that. Well, I am also bored with his pseudo-intellectual discourse that tries to justify progress with dishonesty and inconsequence.

[Terry McCracken]

Karl, you are not careful enough. You should follow my steps and burn also Mychess by Kittinger, 1980 version. I smell a rat there. Colossus IV, for Atari, is suspicious. Maybe Bryant stole something from Fidelity 3, who knows. Destroy it too if you have it.
I am right now, as I write, burning in a great fire in my garden old wooden boards that maybe were copied from a previous design. The pieces are already in the furnace.

Nothing is enough regards
Fern

Stop being ridiculous about it Fern. What? Everytime we nab a suspect accuse everyone to be sure and nab them???

Arrest Society Regards...

Fern is intellectually dishonest and is now using a tactic of ridicule and ad hominem attacks.

There is some irony here. Many years ago senator McCarthy used fear of communism as a club to beat people up - accusing practically everyone as being a "communist" or having communist ties in order to benefit from the fears people of the time were having in the US.

This unpleasant era is etched deeply in the consciousness of everyone, so now Fern and others are using the SAME tactic in a form of reverse McCarthyism. Their game now is to accuse everyone of being a "chess McCarthyist" to beat them up with insults and ridicule. The idea is to try to make you believe that there is a Hyatt mafia who is going after every program author and that just makes them look like complete asses to even imply that.

Yeah, I know that's what Fern is doing. It's disgusting.

How is Komodo coming? Is it smp yet? I'd like to see you and Larry blow Rybka and Houdini out of the water!