Why not sell derivative programs etc?

[S.Taylor]

I simply want the best!
Would there be anything wrong, if the programmer, plus, the programmer of what it is derived from both got money?
After all, isn't it simply a joint effort?

[Don]

I simply want the best!
Would there be anything wrong, if the programmer, plus, the programmer of what it is derived from both got money?
After all, isn't it simply a joint effort?

If there is agreement between them, there is no problem. But it's probably as much or even more about credit that money. So the procedure should be to go into some joint authorship agreement in this case.

[S.Taylor]

I simply want the best!
Would there be anything wrong, if the programmer, plus, the programmer of what it is derived from both got money?
After all, isn't it simply a joint effort?

If there is agreement between them, there is no problem. But it's probably as much or even more about credit that money. So the procedure should be to go into some joint authorship agreement in this case.

So the question is, what should be done about it, when this was already done (without agreements), i suppose. [whether selling or giving]

(the public gets a wonderful product from disputed ownership)

[Don]

I simply want the best!
Would there be anything wrong, if the programmer, plus, the programmer of what it is derived from both got money?
After all, isn't it simply a joint effort?

If there is agreement between them, there is no problem. But it's probably as much or even more about credit that money. So the procedure should be to go into some joint authorship agreement in this case.

So the question is, what should be done about it, when this was already done (without agreements), i suppose. [whether selling or giving]

(the public gets a wonderful product from disputed ownership)

Only the original author can take steps against them. In the case of the ippo clones it appears that they were the suckers - people are making money off of their work and there is nothing they can do about it. I see a lot of irony in this because it's not exactly what they had in mind as their web site reveals that they despise capitalists. They were too stupid to realize that someone would find a way to take advantage of their work.

[kranium]

I simply want the best!
Would there be anything wrong, if the programmer, plus, the programmer of what it is derived from both got money?
After all, isn't it simply a joint effort?

If there is agreement between them, there is no problem. But it's probably as much or even more about credit that money. So the procedure should be to go into some joint authorship agreement in this case.

So the question is, what should be done about it, when this was already done (without agreements), i suppose. [whether selling or giving]

(the public gets a wonderful product from disputed ownership)

Only the original author can take steps against them. In the case of the ippo clones it appears that they were the suckers - people are making money off of their work and there is nothing they can do about it. I see a lot of irony in this because it's not exactly what they had in mind as their web site reveals that they despise capitalists. They were too stupid to realize that someone would find a way to take advantage of their work.

I think they are probably highly amused by the public spectacle of top programmers rushing to rape and extract anything they can for their own recognition and benefit.
Self-serving human greed (capitalism?) in it's ugly magnificence...

The sheer entertainment value of what's happened the last year is likely compensation enough for them...!


As far as your characterization of the Ippolit authors as stupid 'suckers'...
I believe they are quite smart and knew full well the consequences of their actions...

I guess that means that you believe Bob Hyatt, Fabien Letouzey, Tord Romstad, and any/all other 'open-source' authors would also qualify...?
because apparently even if the source code is released under a strict license (like the GPL), it doesn't seem to prevent it from being pillaged by unethical commercial authors.

[kranium]

PS - there's no evidence that the 'Ippo clones' as you seem fond of calling them, are clones of anything...

but of course I can understand your crude characterizations and substantial efforts to discredit them (while simultaneously taking anything you can from them)...
clearly, if they are banned from all competition and rating lists, Komodo looks (artificially) better and you stand to benefit financially.

You, Vas, Robert H., etc. all laughing at the 'stupid suckers' all the way to the bank...!?

[tomgdrums]

PS - there's no evidence that the 'Ippo clones' as you seem fond of calling them, are clones of anything...

but of course I can understand your crude characterizations and substantial efforts to discredit them (while simultaneously taking anything you can from them)...
clearly, if they are banned from all competition and rating lists, Komodo looks (artificially) better and you stand to benefit financially.

You, Vas, Robert H., etc. all laughing at the 'stupid suckers' all the way to the bank...!?

+1

[Don]

I simply want the best!
Would there be anything wrong, if the programmer, plus, the programmer of what it is derived from both got money?
After all, isn't it simply a joint effort?

If there is agreement between them, there is no problem. But it's probably as much or even more about credit that money. So the procedure should be to go into some joint authorship agreement in this case.

So the question is, what should be done about it, when this was already done (without agreements), i suppose. [whether selling or giving]

(the public gets a wonderful product from disputed ownership)

Only the original author can take steps against them. In the case of the ippo clones it appears that they were the suckers - people are making money off of their work and there is nothing they can do about it. I see a lot of irony in this because it's not exactly what they had in mind as their web site reveals that they despise capitalists. They were too stupid to realize that someone would find a way to take advantage of their work.

I think they are probably highly amused by the public spectacle of top programmers rushing to rape and extract anything they can for their own recognition and benefit.
Self-serving human greed (capitalism?) in it's ugly magnificence...

The sheer entertainment value of what's happened the last year is likely compensation enough for them...!

I don't have any reason for believing that, you are just guessing. As far as the evils of capitalism I have to agree with you as I see capitalism as one of the big 3 major evils of society. I'm not saying that I think it's wrong to own things and barter goods and services using money, but in it's current form it is almost pure greed. In our society if you say someone is successful it only means they have a lot of money - it doesn't mean anything else such as that they are happy.

As far as your characterization of the Ippolit authors as stupid 'suckers'...
I believe they are quite smart and knew full well the consequences of their actions...

That is unlikely. No matter how you slice it, someone has taken advantage of their hard work for the sake of their own personal wealth. If you imagine that puts a big smile on their faces then you must be pretty naive.

You can read their web site and see for yourself that "wisdom" is not one of their characteristics. What you see are qualities that unhappy people have such as contention, war, hatred and so on. There is also a serious lack of humility and honesty there. These are qualities never associated with people who possess wisdom.

I'm only guessing, but I seriously doubt they had seen this coming. Much more likely is that they thought it would put an end to commercial chess engines and further their political agenda, and this is far more consistent with the own stated philosophy.

Since they also lurk in the shadows it's likely that they wanted to promote some kind of "mystique" around themselves and you are clearly playing into their hands by wanting to believe that they "knew full well the consequences of their actions." Are you their poster child? You are letting them play you.

There is this theory going around that they are just being deliberately deceitful and making these things up as the go along and that they really don't have any political agenda and it's all a game for them. If that is so, then I would say it's most likely (but not necessarily) a single person not a group and his motivation is his own lack of self-worth. Anyone that was invest so much time just to fool someone in order to feel superior is a very unhappy person.

There is no scenario here that puts this person or persons in a positive light.

I guess that means that you believe Bob Hyatt, Fabien Letouzey, Tord Romstad, and any/all other 'open-source' authors would also qualify...?

No, as far as I know they are not trying to further a Marxist agenda and they are not being made fools out of. These guys are being straightforward and giving, not lurking in the shadows and not pushing an agenda and even more to the point they have not taken the work of others as their starting point in order to turn the tables on "evil." There is a world of difference here.

because apparently even if the source code is released under a strict license (like the GPL), it doesn't seem to prevent it from being pillaged by unethical commercial authors.

[S.Taylor]

I simply want the best!
Would there be anything wrong, if the programmer, plus, the programmer of what it is derived from both got money?
After all, isn't it simply a joint effort?

If there is agreement between them, there is no problem. But it's probably as much or even more about credit that money. So the procedure should be to go into some joint authorship agreement in this case.

So the question is, what should be done about it, when this was already done (without agreements), i suppose. [whether selling or giving]

(the public gets a wonderful product from disputed ownership)

Only the original author can take steps against them. In the case of the ippo clones it appears that they were the suckers - people are making money off of their work and there is nothing they can do about it. I see a lot of irony in this because it's not exactly what they had in mind as their web site reveals that they despise capitalists. They were too stupid to realize that someone would find a way to take advantage of their work.

I'm also asking about what can be done, in order to legalize them, now that damage was done.
After all, there is great advancement in chess programming since this started, even though it is from dubious reasons. Still, there is this effective chess playing ability. Perhaps peacwe can be made with anonymus originators. Why not get effective investigations and rulings on the matter. We can't pretend that the chess of these engines is not chess.

Perhaps it can become a part of the evolution of chess programming, after peace is reached.

[frcha]

A bit off topic but without capitalism you will be living in the dark ages..Communism/socialism only brings death and despair.

Pure free market Capitalism without government interference (not crony capitalism) is actually much better in helping elevating hard working people -- socialism on the other hand creates a dictatorship and in many cases crony capitalism (criminals like the soros guy profit from socialism).

Even a greedy selfish owner of a store will end up giving money to someone in exchange for work...

see:

http://www.amazon.com/Capitalism-Freedo ... 0226264017
to learn about how capitalism works...