bob wrote:
Ed hasn't competed in a computer chess in 20 years that I can recall. This is the typical "I'm taking my ball and going home" type of action. Not a first, as he left the panel in a huff as well. Everyone has the right to be a member of whatever organizations they want, or not be a member... Doesn't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things.l
Doesn't seem like a kid throwing his toys out of his pram. Dissociating from an organisation and handing back a trophy which was legitimately won seems like he is making a powerful statement, and is even willing to sacrifice something he gained to stand up for what he believed in.
That's how it seems to me anyhow.
Agreed. I had major differences of opinion with Ed when he was a CTF moderator alongside Whittington, but he does not deserve the pointless jibes offered by some in this thread. I guess Hyatt was particularly upset by the fact that Søren Riis observed how odd it was that Hyatt had posted more than 3,000 times in a four-month period on Rybka, and hence decided to take it out on poor Ed. Riis articulated what I had long felt about the activities of Hyatt.
I remember Enrique Irazoqui writing a couple of years ago that computer chess was dying. Any vestige of life was extinguished by removing the dominant program from the international arena.
Meanwhile I believe strongly that no words are appropriate in this thread other than regret for the departure of a man of integrity who has been a leading light in computer chess for so long.
My comments to Ed are a DIRECT result of his continually posting lies and/or distortions. His web site is one such example.
rebel nonsense web page wrote:
Wisdom is knowing how
little we know -- Socrates
About Company
Started in 1980, retired in 2004 REBEL was baptized into ProDeo, latin for gratis according to Dutch tradition.
Other Information
Rybka-ICGA fiasco
* Rybka menu
* Rybka originality
* Rybka fruitification
* The ICGA speaks
* Rule 2
* Opinion poll
* Dann Corbit
* Crafty fruitification
* The notorious PST's
* More unburden stuff
* ICGA resignation
* HOME
The below PST tables were generated with the Fruit and Rybka utilities from Mark Watkins which eventually were released under great pressure. Its source code can be downloaded.
Left column - Fruit PST
Middle column - Rybka PST / 32
Right column - Original Rybka PST values as found in the Rybka 1.0 beta executable
MG - PST in use for middlegame
EG - PST in use for the endgame
Fruit Pawn Value = 100
Rybka Pawn Value = 3200
Hence the Rybka values are divided by 32 for visual comparison in the middle column.
Note that there is only one exact PST match, the ROOK and notice how litte information the cells contain, just 2 values.
The ICGA report CLEARLY states that the Fruit PST initialization can be changed by modifying 3-4 constants per piece type, and that will produce the Rybka PST values EXACTLY.
Ed takes the Rybka PST values, divides by 32, and says "there are no matches." The math is wrong, he knows it is wrong, and he knows we did not say any PST values match.
Those kinds of dishonest statements need to be addressed before they sit around so long they become "fact" rather than the fiction they actually are...
You forgot to quote your own words, part 1 of that page is dedicated to you and your misleading postings at Rybka Forum.
Thread will be moved soon to engine origins I suppose, and I hope so.
bob wrote:
Ed hasn't competed in a computer chess in 20 years that I can recall. This is the typical "I'm taking my ball and going home" type of action. Not a first, as he left the panel in a huff as well. Everyone has the right to be a member of whatever organizations they want, or not be a member... Doesn't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things.l
Doesn't seem like a kid throwing his toys out of his pram. Dissociating from an organisation and handing back a trophy which was legitimately won seems like he is making a powerful statement, and is even willing to sacrifice something he gained to stand up for what he believed in.
That's how it seems to me anyhow.
Agreed. I had major differences of opinion with Ed when he was a CTF moderator alongside Whittington, but he does not deserve the pointless jibes offered by some in this thread. I guess Hyatt was particularly upset by the fact that Søren Riis observed how odd it was that Hyatt had posted more than 3,000 times in a four-month period on Rybka, and hence decided to take it out on poor Ed. Riis articulated what I had long felt about the activities of Hyatt.
I remember Enrique Irazoqui writing a couple of years ago that computer chess was dying. Any vestige of life was extinguished by removing the dominant program from the international arena.
Meanwhile I believe strongly that no words are appropriate in this thread other than regret for the departure of a man of integrity who has been a leading light in computer chess for so long.
My comments to Ed are a DIRECT result of his continually posting lies and/or distortions. His web site is one such example.
rebel nonsense web page wrote:
Wisdom is knowing how
little we know -- Socrates
About Company
Started in 1980, retired in 2004 REBEL was baptized into ProDeo, latin for gratis according to Dutch tradition.
Other Information
Rybka-ICGA fiasco
* Rybka menu
* Rybka originality
* Rybka fruitification
* The ICGA speaks
* Rule 2
* Opinion poll
* Dann Corbit
* Crafty fruitification
* The notorious PST's
* More unburden stuff
* ICGA resignation
* HOME
The below PST tables were generated with the Fruit and Rybka utilities from Mark Watkins which eventually were released under great pressure. Its source code can be downloaded.
Left column - Fruit PST
Middle column - Rybka PST / 32
Right column - Original Rybka PST values as found in the Rybka 1.0 beta executable
MG - PST in use for middlegame
EG - PST in use for the endgame
Fruit Pawn Value = 100
Rybka Pawn Value = 3200
Hence the Rybka values are divided by 32 for visual comparison in the middle column.
Note that there is only one exact PST match, the ROOK and notice how litte information the cells contain, just 2 values.
The ICGA report CLEARLY states that the Fruit PST initialization can be changed by modifying 3-4 constants per piece type, and that will produce the Rybka PST values EXACTLY.
Ed takes the Rybka PST values, divides by 32, and says "there are no matches." The math is wrong, he knows it is wrong, and he knows we did not say any PST values match.
Those kinds of dishonest statements need to be addressed before they sit around so long they become "fact" rather than the fiction they actually are...
You forgot to quote your own words, part 1 of that page is dedicated to you and your misleading postings at Rybka Forum.
Thread will be moved soon to engine origins I suppose, and I hope so.
Methinks Bob you are a bit out of control lately.
Nope. You are a bit "something" lately, but many of us can't quite put our finger on "what"...
bob wrote:
Ed hasn't competed in a computer chess in 20 years that I can recall. This is the typical "I'm taking my ball and going home" type of action. Not a first, as he left the panel in a huff as well. Everyone has the right to be a member of whatever organizations they want, or not be a member... Doesn't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things.l
Doesn't seem like a kid throwing his toys out of his pram. Dissociating from an organisation and handing back a trophy which was legitimately won seems like he is making a powerful statement, and is even willing to sacrifice something he gained to stand up for what he believed in.
That's how it seems to me anyhow.
An alternative view:
A petulant child that gets angry and says "I will show YOU!" and then breaks his favorite toy that YOU gave him. He REALLY showed YOU didn't he? This is commonly called "cutting your nose off to spite your face..."
Next elections (I heard they are soon) I will vote on you. You are such a good mod always showing so much restraint.
I would actually agree with you there. I don't think I have deleted a post in a year, except maybe when someone slips a porn link in that has nothing to do with CC. Good moderators are quiet moderators. Doesn't mean they don't have opinions or can't post what they really believe at all.
wow! He's a good man, he backs up his words with action. The programmers do have the power. The ICGA is going to shoot themselves in the foot with this one I believe.
Impossible for ICGA to get out of this mess without losing most all of their credibility. Not a big problem, because with the way they handled the Rybka issue, they had little, if any, before Ed left. They made their own bed- time to lie in it.
george
Personally, the only way I see for ICGA to survive long term is to openly apologize, then have Levy resign along with Hyatt. Without Levy and Hyatt, the org. might have a chance of being looked at in a favorable light. At least it would go a long way toward making things right.
george
The only way Rybka can survive is if Vas comes clean and then gets rid of any remaining Fruit/Crafty code in his program. Otherwise, NOTHING is going to change, regardless of your meandering nonsense.
wow! He's a good man, he backs up his words with action. The programmers do have the power. The ICGA is going to shoot themselves in the foot with this one I believe.
Impossible for ICGA to get out of this mess without losing most all of their credibility. Not a big problem, because with the way they handled the Rybka issue, they had little, if any, before Ed left. They made their own bed- time to lie in it.
george
Personally, the only way I see for ICGA to survive long term is to openly apologize, then have Levy resign along with Hyatt. Without Levy and Hyatt, the org. might have a chance of being looked at in a favorable light. At least it would go a long way toward making things right.
george
The only way Rybka can survive is if Vas comes clean and then gets rid of any remaining Fruit/Crafty code in his program. Otherwise, NOTHING is going to change, regardless of your meandering nonsense.
So you think the latest rybka has fruit/crafty code in it?
bob wrote:
Ed hasn't competed in a computer chess in 20 years that I can recall. This is the typical "I'm taking my ball and going home" type of action. Not a first, as he left the panel in a huff as well. Everyone has the right to be a member of whatever organizations they want, or not be a member... Doesn't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things.l
Doesn't seem like a kid throwing his toys out of his pram. Dissociating from an organisation and handing back a trophy which was legitimately won seems like he is making a powerful statement, and is even willing to sacrifice something he gained to stand up for what he believed in.
That's how it seems to me anyhow.
Agreed. I had major differences of opinion with Ed when he was a CTF moderator alongside Whittington, but he does not deserve the pointless jibes offered by some in this thread. I guess Hyatt was particularly upset by the fact that Søren Riis observed how odd it was that Hyatt had posted more than 3,000 times in a four-month period on Rybka, and hence decided to take it out on poor Ed. Riis articulated what I had long felt about the activities of Hyatt.
I remember Enrique Irazoqui writing a couple of years ago that computer chess was dying. Any vestige of life was extinguished by removing the dominant program from the international arena.
Meanwhile I believe strongly that no words are appropriate in this thread other than regret for the departure of a man of integrity who has been a leading light in computer chess for so long.
My comments to Ed are a DIRECT result of his continually posting lies and/or distortions. His web site is one such example.
rebel nonsense web page wrote:
Wisdom is knowing how
little we know -- Socrates
About Company
Started in 1980, retired in 2004 REBEL was baptized into ProDeo, latin for gratis according to Dutch tradition.
Other Information
Rybka-ICGA fiasco
* Rybka menu
* Rybka originality
* Rybka fruitification
* The ICGA speaks
* Rule 2
* Opinion poll
* Dann Corbit
* Crafty fruitification
* The notorious PST's
* More unburden stuff
* ICGA resignation
* HOME
The below PST tables were generated with the Fruit and Rybka utilities from Mark Watkins which eventually were released under great pressure. Its source code can be downloaded.
Left column - Fruit PST
Middle column - Rybka PST / 32
Right column - Original Rybka PST values as found in the Rybka 1.0 beta executable
MG - PST in use for middlegame
EG - PST in use for the endgame
Fruit Pawn Value = 100
Rybka Pawn Value = 3200
Hence the Rybka values are divided by 32 for visual comparison in the middle column.
Note that there is only one exact PST match, the ROOK and notice how litte information the cells contain, just 2 values.
The ICGA report CLEARLY states that the Fruit PST initialization can be changed by modifying 3-4 constants per piece type, and that will produce the Rybka PST values EXACTLY.
Ed takes the Rybka PST values, divides by 32, and says "there are no matches." The math is wrong, he knows it is wrong, and he knows we did not say any PST values match.
Those kinds of dishonest statements need to be addressed before they sit around so long they become "fact" rather than the fiction they actually are...
You forgot to quote your own words, part 1 of that page is dedicated to you and your misleading postings at Rybka Forum.
Thread will be moved soon to engine origins I suppose, and I hope so.
Methinks Bob you are a bit out of control lately.
Nope. You are a bit "something" lately, but many of us can't quite put our finger on "what"...
Did you a favor and updated the page, I don't think you will like it. But you forced me. The thing you have to learn is to take responsibility for what you said in the past but is not convenient today.
bob wrote:
The only way Rybka can survive is if Vas comes clean and then gets rid of any remaining Fruit/Crafty code in his program. Otherwise, NOTHING is going to change, regardless of your meandering nonsense.
I believe that you believe that there is Fruit source in Rybka. I''m not so sure.
bob wrote:
The only way Rybka can survive is if Vas comes clean and then gets rid of any remaining Fruit/Crafty code in his program. Otherwise, NOTHING is going to change, regardless of your meandering nonsense.
I believe that you believe that there is Fruit source in Rybka. I''m not so sure.
is there tomato sauce in a ketchup bottle
or..
was there , given the time vas has had to eat it all
Last edited by natasha on Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
bob wrote:
Ed hasn't competed in a computer chess in 20 years that I can recall. This is the typical "I'm taking my ball and going home" type of action. Not a first, as he left the panel in a huff as well. Everyone has the right to be a member of whatever organizations they want, or not be a member... Doesn't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things.l
Doesn't seem like a kid throwing his toys out of his pram. Dissociating from an organisation and handing back a trophy which was legitimately won seems like he is making a powerful statement, and is even willing to sacrifice something he gained to stand up for what he believed in.
That's how it seems to me anyhow.
Agreed. I had major differences of opinion with Ed when he was a CTF moderator alongside Whittington, but he does not deserve the pointless jibes offered by some in this thread. I guess Hyatt was particularly upset by the fact that Søren Riis observed how odd it was that Hyatt had posted more than 3,000 times in a four-month period on Rybka, and hence decided to take it out on poor Ed. Riis articulated what I had long felt about the activities of Hyatt.
I remember Enrique Irazoqui writing a couple of years ago that computer chess was dying. Any vestige of life was extinguished by removing the dominant program from the international arena.
Meanwhile I believe strongly that no words are appropriate in this thread other than regret for the departure of a man of integrity who has been a leading light in computer chess for so long.
My comments to Ed are a DIRECT result of his continually posting lies and/or distortions. His web site is one such example.
rebel nonsense web page wrote:
Wisdom is knowing how
little we know -- Socrates
About Company
Started in 1980, retired in 2004 REBEL was baptized into ProDeo, latin for gratis according to Dutch tradition.
Other Information
Rybka-ICGA fiasco
* Rybka menu
* Rybka originality
* Rybka fruitification
* The ICGA speaks
* Rule 2
* Opinion poll
* Dann Corbit
* Crafty fruitification
* The notorious PST's
* More unburden stuff
* ICGA resignation
* HOME
The below PST tables were generated with the Fruit and Rybka utilities from Mark Watkins which eventually were released under great pressure. Its source code can be downloaded.
Left column - Fruit PST
Middle column - Rybka PST / 32
Right column - Original Rybka PST values as found in the Rybka 1.0 beta executable
MG - PST in use for middlegame
EG - PST in use for the endgame
Fruit Pawn Value = 100
Rybka Pawn Value = 3200
Hence the Rybka values are divided by 32 for visual comparison in the middle column.
Note that there is only one exact PST match, the ROOK and notice how litte information the cells contain, just 2 values.
The ICGA report CLEARLY states that the Fruit PST initialization can be changed by modifying 3-4 constants per piece type, and that will produce the Rybka PST values EXACTLY.
Ed takes the Rybka PST values, divides by 32, and says "there are no matches." The math is wrong, he knows it is wrong, and he knows we did not say any PST values match.
Those kinds of dishonest statements need to be addressed before they sit around so long they become "fact" rather than the fiction they actually are...
You forgot to quote your own words, part 1 of that page is dedicated to you and your misleading postings at Rybka Forum.
Thread will be moved soon to engine origins I suppose, and I hope so.
Methinks Bob you are a bit out of control lately.
Nope. You are a bit "something" lately, but many of us can't quite put our finger on "what"...
Did you a favor and updated the page, I don't think you will like it. But you forced me. The thing you have to learn is to take responsibility for what you said in the past but is not convenient today.
I don't have the interest to look. But if you want to base your argument on something I said, admitted was a mistake which I then corrected, it shows your "lack of class". But that's hardly a new revelation, so carry on with it...
wow! He's a good man, he backs up his words with action. The programmers do have the power. The ICGA is going to shoot themselves in the foot with this one I believe.
Impossible for ICGA to get out of this mess without losing most all of their credibility. Not a big problem, because with the way they handled the Rybka issue, they had little, if any, before Ed left. They made their own bed- time to lie in it.
george
Personally, the only way I see for ICGA to survive long term is to openly apologize, then have Levy resign along with Hyatt. Without Levy and Hyatt, the org. might have a chance of being looked at in a favorable light. At least it would go a long way toward making things right.
george
The only way Rybka can survive is if Vas comes clean and then gets rid of any remaining Fruit/Crafty code in his program. Otherwise, NOTHING is going to change, regardless of your meandering nonsense.
So you think the latest rybka has fruit/crafty code in it?
Don't know. But so many early versions did, there is no reason to think it magically disappeared, is there? I still have code in Crafty that was written on day 1 of the development in 1994. I have some code in Crafty that was converted from Fortran that dated back to the pre-cray blitz days (FEN strings for one thing). Still there today.
