Losing a doctorate degree!

[bob]

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Fritz+Reul

We are now pleased to announce that Mr Reul has since submitted his program code to the scrutiny of an expert approved by the ICGA tournament committee and that this expert has declared Mr. Reul’s code to be completely above board, with no sign of any copying of code from other known programs. Furthermore Mr. Reul has submitted to the ICGA an apology for what happened in 2003 (see above). The ICGA tournament committee has therefore decided unanimously to lift the suspension on Mr. Reul with immediate effect and to welcome him back for participation in future ICGA events.
London, England

David Levy

“The International Computer Games Association (ICGA) has received a formal complaint from Fabien Letouzey, the programmer of FRUIT, regarding the program LOOP. The allegation is that LOOP, which has participated in the World Computer Chess Championship, uses code derived from FRUIT, which placed second at the 2005 World Computer Chess Championship in Reykjavik.”
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7926
I wonder whether Fabien Letouzey is embarrassed by this. There are similarities between the reaction of Reul and some of the reactions of Rajlich to the accusations made against them. That fact does not prove anything but It is nevertheless interesting to those who consider that neither displayed the reactions of an innocent man.

Why would Fabien be embarrassed? He explicitly asked the ICGA to investigate loop. I saw the email from him, which came to all of us during an exchange with him...

righting a wrong is not embarrassing. It DOES show the potential problems with an "independent 3rd party" reviewing anything. A group, ala the ICGA secretariat, has a much better chance of finding the right people to investigate and get the right answer the first time around... Oh well...

[diep]

Hi Vincent,

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Fritz+Reul

We are now pleased to announce that Mr Reul has since submitted his program code to the scrutiny of an expert approved by the ICGA tournament committee and that this expert has declared Mr. Reul’s code to be completely above board, with no sign of any copying of code from other known programs. Furthermore Mr. Reul has submitted to the ICGA an apology for what happened in 2003 (see above). The ICGA tournament committee has therefore decided unanimously to lift the suspension on Mr. Reul with immediate effect and to welcome him back for participation in future ICGA events.
London, England

David Levy

I wonder who the expert was?

I hope nobody will say it was me.

The expert was Chrilly Donninger. Anyway, it was about List and not Loop and was some years before the version under suspicion arises.

Greets, Thomas

List was a stripped crafty and modified a tad. Some like me at that time didn't care much about that - besides that it played very weak and he didn't sell it.

well, according to Chrilly that is not true, at least the version he took a look was original. I don't see a reason why I shouldn't believe him.

Greets, Thomas

The proof back then as posted by GCP on the internet, which was a disassemblerlist of List, was 100% proof if i may say so that it was a stripped crafty.

Now i didn't care much about that, as what he took over was pretty weak back then, and he obviously modified a lot.

What he later on showed to Chrilly, i have no clue, in general Chrilly also quickly handwaves when it doesn't beat his Brutus

[diep]

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Fritz+Reul

We are now pleased to announce that Mr Reul has since submitted his program code to the scrutiny of an expert approved by the ICGA tournament committee and that this expert has declared Mr. Reul’s code to be completely above board, with no sign of any copying of code from other known programs. Furthermore Mr. Reul has submitted to the ICGA an apology for what happened in 2003 (see above). The ICGA tournament committee has therefore decided unanimously to lift the suspension on Mr. Reul with immediate effect and to welcome him back for participation in future ICGA events.
London, England

David Levy

“The International Computer Games Association (ICGA) has received a formal complaint from Fabien Letouzey, the programmer of FRUIT, regarding the program LOOP. The allegation is that LOOP, which has participated in the World Computer Chess Championship, uses code derived from FRUIT, which placed second at the 2005 World Computer Chess Championship in Reykjavik.”
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7926
I wonder whether Fabien Letouzey is embarrassed by this. There are similarities between the reaction of Reul and some of the reactions of Rajlich to the accusations made against them. That fact does not prove anything but It is nevertheless interesting to those who consider that neither displayed the reactions of an innocent man.

Why would Fabien be embarrassed? He explicitly asked the ICGA to investigate loop. I saw the email from him, which came to all of us during an exchange with him...

righting a wrong is not embarrassing. It DOES show the potential problems with an "independent 3rd party" reviewing anything. A group, ala the ICGA secretariat, has a much better chance of finding the right people to investigate and get the right answer the first time around... Oh well...

Bob this is from the loop before that. First Fritz stripped crafty. Later on he took over the evaluation function from fruit 2.1 to loop list.

He first tried to sell this, and only after being pushed and pressed a lot, months later, if not years, he wrote on his homepage 1 sentence: "based upon fruit".

This was long after it joined without mentionning that in 2007 to the world champs 2007 in Amsterdam.

[Sylwy]

If LOOP is found to have plagiarized Fruit, this Dr. Fritz Reul person might end up having their doctorate degree taken away.

If the non-bitboard data-structure of LOOP was also applied in Chrilly Donninger's chess machine Hydra it too has plagiarized, although unknowingly

I notice Reul did his doctorate defence as follows:

New Architectures in Computer Chess - June 17, 2009 Fritz Reul, Promotores: H.J. van den Herik, co-promotores: J. Uiterwijk

Fascinating title for his thesis, does copy and paste of Fruit mean Reul has created a "New Architecture in Computer Chess" Has he really met the criteria necessary to have a piled higher and deeper degree?

Cordially,

Sean Evans

Hello !


Years ago ICGA banned another masterpiece of Mr. Reul - List. Was in Anno Domini 2004 AC.
Right or not ?
I think prof. Hyatt knows the problem !

Here are some posts about this scandal (the old CCC forum):

http://www.stmintz.com/ccc/index.php?id=383313

Have a nice day !

SilvianR

1.-It was 2003 in Graz, weird you don't remember.
2.-You were there yourself as well -
3.- a lot closer to Romania
4.-:)

1.-That's because my mind is obsessed by Diep ! Day & night !
2.-Jawohl , correct , SilvianR has a lot of personalities. Better for me I'm still in life after this 2003 trip & scandal !
3.-WOW , that's a great news for me ! That meansTyrol is vis-à-vis with Romania ???
4.-

Best to you and to my very dear Diep !
SilvianR

IASI images for Diep:

[diep]

The expert was Chrilly Donninger. Anyway, it was about List and not Loop and was some years before the version under suspicion arises.

Thomas, do you also know the accuser ?

The close I can get:

One expert said: “LIST was playing out of its skin. We were shocked by some of the great moves it came up with. People started to smell a rat.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... ?print=yes

It wasn't me, and yes it was a clone, and yes many were angry back then about this. Most programmers always 'handwave' until they lose you know...

Please explain yourself.

For a month or so i didn't check the CCC, and i was accused bigtime at CCC that i had protested against List.

First of all, even if i had done so, it was the most obvious stripped crafty possible. Entire evaluation was intact. In the assembler code you can easily see that. Maybe i can dig up some examples - but is that really needed?

So the evaluation function was 100% taken over.

Now later on we had a program with a very well tuned evaluation function, called Fruit, a tuning you don't manage yourself at home without knowing something about mathematical parameter tuning, and what you don't manage without having some big testing hardware and/or very specialistic tricks that take 15 years to develop.

So taking *that* over is really ugly.

That's what he did do later on with loop-list. It was the list search, where he clearly had modified a lot, and his thesis is about this, yet the evaluation function he litterary copied. It's 100% the same evaluation in nearly every position like Fruit 2.1, except for of course the search differences.

So in most positions it's within 0.01 pawn of Fruit 2.1, thanks to a deeper search and a more selective search.

It really took a long time to put on that : "based upon fruit", whereas this was such obvious take over.

This guy never wrote an evaluation function himself and i doubt he ever designed a qsearch himself.

Vincent

[Thomas Mayer]

besides all that I believe that this thread shoud be moved to engines origin.

[K I Hyams]

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Fritz+Reul

We are now pleased to announce that Mr Reul has since submitted his program code to the scrutiny of an expert approved by the ICGA tournament committee and that this expert has declared Mr. Reul’s code to be completely above board, with no sign of any copying of code from other known programs. Furthermore Mr. Reul has submitted to the ICGA an apology for what happened in 2003 (see above). The ICGA tournament committee has therefore decided unanimously to lift the suspension on Mr. Reul with immediate effect and to welcome him back for participation in future ICGA events.
London, England

David Levy

“The International Computer Games Association (ICGA) has received a formal complaint from Fabien Letouzey, the programmer of FRUIT, regarding the program LOOP. The allegation is that LOOP, which has participated in the World Computer Chess Championship, uses code derived from FRUIT, which placed second at the 2005 World Computer Chess Championship in Reykjavik.”
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=7926
I wonder whether Fabien Letouzey is embarrassed by this. There are similarities between the reaction of Reul and some of the reactions of Rajlich to the accusations made against them. That fact does not prove anything but It is nevertheless interesting to those who consider that neither displayed the reactions of an innocent man.

Why would Fabien be embarrassed? He explicitly asked the ICGA to investigate loop. I saw the email from him, which came to all of us during an exchange with him...

righting a wrong is not embarrassing. It DOES show the potential problems with an "independent 3rd party" reviewing anything. A group, ala the ICGA secretariat, has a much better chance of finding the right people to investigate and get the right answer the first time around... Oh well...

It looks like there is no reason at all why Letouzey should be embarrassed. Shortly after posting, I did some research and found that Ed’s comment needs to be looked at in the context of Silvian's post, otherwise it is misleading. Unless you do look at it in that context, the natural assumption to make is that his quote below and on which I based my comment, is a recent quote and therefore exonerates recent versions of Loop.

http://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Fritz+Reul
We are now pleased to announce that Mr Reul has since submitted his program code to the scrutiny of an expert approved by the ICGA tournament committee and that this expert has declared Mr. Reul’s code to be completely above board, with no sign of any copying of code from other known programs. Furthermore Mr. Reul has submitted to the ICGA an apology for what happened in 2003 (see above). The ICGA tournament committee has therefore decided unanimously to lift the suspension on Mr. Reul with immediate effect and to welcome him back for participation in future ICGA events.
London, England

As it turns out, the quote relates to an investigation that took place in 2005!! By the time that I discovered that, it was too late to withdraw my post. In addition, subsequent investigation indicates that Fabien has good reason to suspect that recent versions of Loop are not authentic.

[diep]

besides all that I believe that this thread shoud be moved to engines origin.

it's a bad idea as the engines origins are NOT getting indexed by google.

WHY by the way????

[Thomas Mayer]

besides all that I believe that this thread shoud be moved to engines origin.

it's a bad idea as the engines origins are NOT getting indexed by google.

WHY by the way????

isn't it about engin origins ? In special about Lists origin ?

Greets, Thomas

[JuLieN]

besides all that I believe that this thread shoud be moved to engines origin.

it's a bad idea as the engines origins are NOT getting indexed by google.

WHY by the way????

This is actually exactly the point: Engines Origin is kept closed to prevent search engines from indexing it. The goal is to protect any accused author to suffer from too much damages while the cloning issue is not proven.

We've been told it's a request from Talkchess' sponsor who doesn't want to risk any legal issue.

I am also an advocate of opening Engines Origin, but this decision sadly depends only on Talkchess' sponsor.

And by the way, Talkchess is a neutral zone: it doesn't belong to Dr. Hyatt, the ICGA, the Rybka team or any other lobby.