Houdini 3

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Sedat Canbaz
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Location: Antalya/Turkey
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Re: Houdini 3

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:54 am

TimoK wrote:Hello Sedat,
Sedat Canbaz wrote:Sure...you did not use exactly the same words,but its quite qlear what do you mean with your 1st posting
In my opinion,all testers should be neutral and what a pity that some testers are against testing some top engines
Well, let me say it that way: For my taste there are too many Ippo-family engines around. No tester has the time to test all engines, so one has to choose. I'm testing Houdini that is clearly the strongest derivate. So I'm not very much interested in the rest of that family because I already have the strongest one. And there is another point: Because I'm Houdini customer, I'm able to get support. For any Ivanhoe or Robbolito I can't get any support from the author. Maybe I'll buy Vitruvius soon because it seems to have an interesting playing style and I'd get support because I bought a commercial product.
Sedat Canbaz wrote:I used the Netchess adapter, which is available to public and honestly i was disappointed by the performance of some mp engines (engines were using 4 cores)
Plus,even many times i noticed many engine crashes via Netchess adapter...
Ok, sometimes there is a problem after a game has ended (Fritz GUI reports "Could not load engine") - maybe that has something to do with NetChess. But the performance problems you speak of never appeared in my tests. Maybe because you were testing at fast TCs and I'm only testing with slower TCs. The overhead/delay that is caused by NetChess could affect games at blitz level, but are negligible at longer TCs.

Best regards
Timo

Note that those Netchess's bugs (crashes,forfeits on time) are appeared in different time controls (blitz and slow)

As i mentioned before,any good program should be ok with all time controls,it does not matter-engine,utility,adapter,book...

Overall i like Netchess utility,with this tool we can run round-robin,swiss,gauntlets...
But however i think,Netchess is complicated tool (not so easy for use)

Note also that i am organizing Auto232 mode tournaments since more than 10 years
And so far (in auto232 mode) i did not notice any single crash or any single game forfeit on time

For example,nowadays i use 4m+2s,maybe for some experts this time control looks like fast,
but it depends on what hardware and with how many cores are the engines playing ?!

I mean,if we compare my current used conditions with one of my older machines,
then e.g i7 980X @4.33GHz 4m+2s probably will be equal in Elo points to Athlon 64 3400+ 100m+2s

Thats why i am still not sure how to call about SCCT Auto232's TC:fast or slow ?!

Maybe will be better to call it : 100m+2s, otherwise the chess experts will never mention SCCT :wink:

Houdini 1.5a bench:

Code: Select all

kN/s    Mate Processor              Speed  Cores L.P  EXE  Hardware User
19389   10s  Intel Core i7 980X     @4.33GHz  6  ON   x64  Sedat Canbaz
1109   425s  AMD Athlon 64 3400+     2.40GHz  1  OFF  x64  Sedat Canbaz
BTW,the bellow tournaments are played via Netchess:

SCCT - Gladiators 2010 Tournament:
http://sedatchess.110mb.com/index.php?p=1_62

SCCT 2011 (Two Computer Match):
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/tourna ... ter-match/

SCCT – Ponder OFF/ON:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/scct-ponder-offon/

I wish you good luck with your tournaments,
Sedat

S.Taylor
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Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: Houdini 3

Post by S.Taylor » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:36 am

mclane wrote:i would say Chess System Tal has it.
Chess tal still has something that has not yet been surpassed? (and if so, why not?)

Werewolf
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Re: Houdini 3

Post by Werewolf » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:25 am

S.Taylor wrote:
mclane wrote:i would say Chess System Tal has it.
Chess tal still has something that has not yet been surpassed? (and if so, why not?)
I bet CS Tal does not have it.

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geots
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Re: Houdini 3

Post by geots » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:02 am

mcostalba wrote:
Houdini wrote:For your information, the Houdini 3 release is planned for September 2012.
See the Houdini Facebook Page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Houdini-C ... 0926948947 to find the current progress.

Cheers,
Robert
Congratulations for the +25 ELO upon last release: I am struggling to even get +5 ELO (although I have access to Critter sources that Richard was very kind to send me) so I understand very well what it takes to increase an already top engine.

On a funny side note I see that Larry Kaufmann was able to make Richard to get angry, it is not an easy result, I think he can be already satisfied with this and just leave :-)


And many congratulations to you as well Marco. On 2 fronts. Along with Tord you have turned your engine into a monster that it is a joy for me to run in matches. And I see you are nice and respectful of Robert and Houdini. He doesn't see much of that around here.


For sure best regards,

george

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mclane
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Location: US of Europe, germany
Full name: Thorsten Czub
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Re: Houdini 3

Post by mclane » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:02 pm

Werewolf wrote:
S.Taylor wrote:
mclane wrote:i would say Chess System Tal has it.
Chess tal still has something that has not yet been surpassed? (and if so, why not?)
I bet CS Tal does not have it.
has something ?
i think CSTAL has a very complex evaluation function .
of course its an old program and the search could need some fundamental new tuning.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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M ANSARI
Posts: 3499
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: Houdini 3

Post by M ANSARI » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:20 am

Sedat Canbaz wrote:
TimoK wrote:Hello Sedat,
Sedat Canbaz wrote:Sure...you did not use exactly the same words,but its quite qlear what do you mean with your 1st posting
In my opinion,all testers should be neutral and what a pity that some testers are against testing some top engines
Well, let me say it that way: For my taste there are too many Ippo-family engines around. No tester has the time to test all engines, so one has to choose. I'm testing Houdini that is clearly the strongest derivate. So I'm not very much interested in the rest of that family because I already have the strongest one. And there is another point: Because I'm Houdini customer, I'm able to get support. For any Ivanhoe or Robbolito I can't get any support from the author. Maybe I'll buy Vitruvius soon because it seems to have an interesting playing style and I'd get support because I bought a commercial product.
Sedat Canbaz wrote:I used the Netchess adapter, which is available to public and honestly i was disappointed by the performance of some mp engines (engines were using 4 cores)
Plus,even many times i noticed many engine crashes via Netchess adapter...
Ok, sometimes there is a problem after a game has ended (Fritz GUI reports "Could not load engine") - maybe that has something to do with NetChess. But the performance problems you speak of never appeared in my tests. Maybe because you were testing at fast TCs and I'm only testing with slower TCs. The overhead/delay that is caused by NetChess could affect games at blitz level, but are negligible at longer TCs.

Best regards
Timo

Note that those Netchess's bugs (crashes,forfeits on time) are appeared in different time controls (blitz and slow)

As i mentioned before,any good program should be ok with all time controls,it does not matter-engine,utility,adapter,book...

Overall i like Netchess utility,with this tool we can run round-robin,swiss,gauntlets...
But however i think,Netchess is complicated tool (not so easy for use)

Note also that i am organizing Auto232 mode tournaments since more than 10 years
And so far (in auto232 mode) i did not notice any single crash or any single game forfeit on time

For example,nowadays i use 4m+2s,maybe for some experts this time control looks like fast,
but it depends on what hardware and with how many cores are the engines playing ?!

I mean,if we compare my current used conditions with one of my older machines,
then e.g i7 980X @4.33GHz 4m+2s probably will be equal in Elo points to Athlon 64 3400+ 100m+2s

Thats why i am still not sure how to call about SCCT Auto232's TC:fast or slow ?!

Maybe will be better to call it : 100m+2s, otherwise the chess experts will never mention SCCT :wink:

Houdini 1.5a bench:

Code: Select all

kN/s    Mate Processor              Speed  Cores L.P  EXE  Hardware User
19389   10s  Intel Core i7 980X     @4.33GHz  6  ON   x64  Sedat Canbaz
1109   425s  AMD Athlon 64 3400+     2.40GHz  1  OFF  x64  Sedat Canbaz
BTW,the bellow tournaments are played via Netchess:

SCCT - Gladiators 2010 Tournament:
http://sedatchess.110mb.com/index.php?p=1_62

SCCT 2011 (Two Computer Match):
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/tourna ... ter-match/

SCCT – Ponder OFF/ON:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/scct-ponder-offon/

I wish you good luck with your tournaments,
Sedat

Hi Sedat good to hear from you again, I have not had any problems with the Netchess adapter and it is used quite extensively in all tournaments where remote engine is required. Check your network settings or your router setup and try experimenting with different ports or router settings. A good router to get is a "gaming router" as it prioritizes some packets over others and thus you won't have any delay or lag in your network when other programs or people are using its resources. Also I highly recommend you setup each of your computers or all devices in your network with a fixed static IP rather than a DHCP given IP as that might cause IP conflicts in some situations. Better yet is to have a dedicated LAN setup just for the computers playing chess.

With regards to auto232, could you explain how you got it working. Some newer motherboards don't have the serial port required but I guess you could find some adapter online?

kasinp
Posts: 216
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:47 pm
Location: Toronto
Full name: Peter Kasinski

Re: Houdini 3

Post by kasinp » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:49 am

I can recommend the Prolific USB-to-serial driver+cable. It cost me $18 (Toronto) and allows me to use auto232 on new computers without serial port. Was easy to install and works fine.

PK

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mclane
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Location: US of Europe, germany
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Re: Houdini 3

Post by mclane » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:28 pm

Werewolf wrote:
S.Taylor wrote:
mclane wrote:i would say Chess System Tal has it.
Chess tal still has something that has not yet been surpassed? (and if so, why not?)
I bet CS Tal does not have it.
how do you know ?
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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Rebel
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:04 am

Re: Houdini 3

Post by Rebel » Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:47 pm

Sedat Canbaz wrote: [Just i'd like to add:one of the biggest mistakes is that we noticed Rybka is disqualified and banned

This is a really big injustice over Vasik Rajlich

For example,if i follow the rules of ICGA/WCCC,then i should cancel and stop organizing SCCT Book Tournaments
And its not so hard to find the answer:simply,because all opening books are made automatically by importing (coping) games

Can anybody inform me please:
-Which opening book is made 100 % by own ideas ?!

Btw,since 2012,SCCT's new rules:
•Some engines which are debated to be close derivatives of others are allowed for testing
*Due to mostly of the engines are each other relative (its hard to find 100 % original work)


Best Regards,
Sedat
Hi Sedat,

There is a good tool available to help you decide which engines to use or not. See the study of Adam Hair at: http://www.top-5000.nl/clone.htm

It's not 100% waterproof but it detects obvious clones on the spot. As a general rule: above 60% not an original work, 55-59% (the grey area, being tolerant), below 55% relative safe, below 50% original.

Good luck with your tournaments.

Sedat Canbaz
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:58 am
Location: Antalya/Turkey
Contact:

Re: Houdini 3

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:52 pm

M ANSARI wrote:
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
TimoK wrote:Hello Sedat,
Sedat Canbaz wrote:Sure...you did not use exactly the same words,but its quite qlear what do you mean with your 1st posting
In my opinion,all testers should be neutral and what a pity that some testers are against testing some top engines
Well, let me say it that way: For my taste there are too many Ippo-family engines around. No tester has the time to test all engines, so one has to choose. I'm testing Houdini that is clearly the strongest derivate. So I'm not very much interested in the rest of that family because I already have the strongest one. And there is another point: Because I'm Houdini customer, I'm able to get support. For any Ivanhoe or Robbolito I can't get any support from the author. Maybe I'll buy Vitruvius soon because it seems to have an interesting playing style and I'd get support because I bought a commercial product.
Sedat Canbaz wrote:I used the Netchess adapter, which is available to public and honestly i was disappointed by the performance of some mp engines (engines were using 4 cores)
Plus,even many times i noticed many engine crashes via Netchess adapter...
Ok, sometimes there is a problem after a game has ended (Fritz GUI reports "Could not load engine") - maybe that has something to do with NetChess. But the performance problems you speak of never appeared in my tests. Maybe because you were testing at fast TCs and I'm only testing with slower TCs. The overhead/delay that is caused by NetChess could affect games at blitz level, but are negligible at longer TCs.

Best regards
Timo

Note that those Netchess's bugs (crashes,forfeits on time) are appeared in different time controls (blitz and slow)

As i mentioned before,any good program should be ok with all time controls,it does not matter-engine,utility,adapter,book...

Overall i like Netchess utility,with this tool we can run round-robin,swiss,gauntlets...
But however i think,Netchess is complicated tool (not so easy for use)

Note also that i am organizing Auto232 mode tournaments since more than 10 years
And so far (in auto232 mode) i did not notice any single crash or any single game forfeit on time

For example,nowadays i use 4m+2s,maybe for some experts this time control looks like fast,
but it depends on what hardware and with how many cores are the engines playing ?!

I mean,if we compare my current used conditions with one of my older machines,
then e.g i7 980X @4.33GHz 4m+2s probably will be equal in Elo points to Athlon 64 3400+ 100m+2s

Thats why i am still not sure how to call about SCCT Auto232's TC:fast or slow ?!

Maybe will be better to call it : 100m+2s, otherwise the chess experts will never mention SCCT :wink:

Houdini 1.5a bench:

Code: Select all

kN/s    Mate Processor              Speed  Cores L.P  EXE  Hardware User
19389   10s  Intel Core i7 980X     @4.33GHz  6  ON   x64  Sedat Canbaz
1109   425s  AMD Athlon 64 3400+     2.40GHz  1  OFF  x64  Sedat Canbaz
BTW,the bellow tournaments are played via Netchess:

SCCT - Gladiators 2010 Tournament:
http://sedatchess.110mb.com/index.php?p=1_62

SCCT 2011 (Two Computer Match):
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/tourna ... ter-match/

SCCT – Ponder OFF/ON:
http://www.sedatcanbaz.com/chess/scct-ponder-offon/

I wish you good luck with your tournaments,
Sedat

Hi Sedat good to hear from you again, I have not had any problems with the Netchess adapter and it is used quite extensively in all tournaments where remote engine is required. Check your network settings or your router setup and try experimenting with different ports or router settings. A good router to get is a "gaming router" as it prioritizes some packets over others and thus you won't have any delay or lag in your network when other programs or people are using its resources. Also I highly recommend you setup each of your computers or all devices in your network with a fixed static IP rather than a DHCP given IP as that might cause IP conflicts in some situations. Better yet is to have a dedicated LAN setup just for the computers playing chess.

With regards to auto232, could you explain how you got it working. Some newer motherboards don't have the serial port required but I guess you could find some adapter online?
Hello Majd,

Thank you for your replay

Just to make it more clear...

Actually i have no any serious problems, e.g ip conflicts (between two PCs) using Netchess adapter+LogMeIn Hamachi

The problem is that with using Netchess adapter,e.g some engines dont play play at full strenght,some engines forfeit on time...

I dont know exactly what can be the reason...probably due to adapter

As you know, some engines have serious issues with adapters

In other words,i dont want to make any risk in my next tours...

Auto232 mode is a ideal method of running matches between 2 PCs

Right now i am using MANHATTAN-Serial PCI Card (for SCCT Auto232):
http://www.manhattan-products.com/en-US ... l-pci-card


Greetings,
Sedat

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