[D]N3k1nR/p1p1Pp2/2P1pPr1/b2pP3/P1pP1K2/2P3p1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
White wins!
Test position
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
-
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am
Re: Test position
Arpad Rusz wrote:[D]N3k1nR/p1p1Pp2/2P1pPr1/b2pP3/P1pP1K2/2P3p1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
White wins!
I have seen a problems like this before. They are all based on zugzwang. The idea is to have the king threaten/attempt to penatrate the queen side thus forcing black to a6 and once the king returns to f4 black is in zugzwang. He will eventually be foced to play Bb6 and when the knight captures it. Game over! However, if black is not forced to play a6 ( I am not sure yet) then I cannot see the win.
The king triangulates Kf3!, Ke3!, Kf4! forcing a6. I am still looking...
-
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am
Re: Test position
Arpad Rusz wrote:[D]N3k1nR/p1p1Pp2/2P1pPr1/b2pP3/P1pP1K2/2P3p1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
White wins!
You always post the most brilliant problems. They all look simple at first glance, then the truth hits me. Damn you!
-
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am
Re: Test position
The above plan does not even work..... I was hallucinating again.Robert Flesher wrote:Arpad Rusz wrote:[D]N3k1nR/p1p1Pp2/2P1pPr1/b2pP3/P1pP1K2/2P3p1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
White wins!
I have seen a problems like this before. They are all based on zugzwang. The idea is to have the king threaten/attempt to penatrate the queen side thus forcing black to a6 and once the king returns to f4 black is in zugzwang. He will eventually be foced to play Bb6 and when the knight captures it. Game over! However, if black is not forced to play a6 ( I am not sure yet) then I cannot see the win.
The king triangulates Kf3!, Ke3!, Kf4! forcing a6. I am still looking...
-
- Posts: 273
- Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:34 pm
- Location: Budapest
Re: Test position
You are on a good track! The problem is that the Black Rook also may "triangulate" (Rg6-g5-g4-g6). So a triangulation by the White King is not enough: it must "quadrangulate"!
By the way this is an old study by Bláthy (1890).
-
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am
Re: Test position
Arpad Rusz wrote:
You are on a good track! The problem is that the Black Rook also may "triangulate" (Rg6-g5-g4-g6). So a triangulation by the White King is not enough: it must "quadrangulate"!
By the way this is an old study by Bláthy (1890).
I always watch your problems with great interest as they show me how much more work I need to put into my game. But also people cannot use engines for them. They must use their own abilities. I am still looking....
-
- Posts: 1280
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:06 am
Re: Test position
Arpad Rusz wrote:[D]N3k1nR/p1p1Pp2/2P1pPr1/b2pP3/P1pP1K2/2P3p1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
White wins!
I believe I have solved it now. Shall all allow others the chance?
-
- Posts: 3186
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
- Full name: Peter Martan
Re: Test position
Hi Arpad!Arpad Rusz wrote:[D]N3k1nR/p1p1Pp2/2P1pPr1/b2pP3/P1pP1K2/2P3p1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
White wins!
Very nice one.
Komodo almost got it. Maybe I was just a little bit too impatient still.
After
N3k1nR/p1p1Pp2/2P1pPr1/b2pP3/P1pP1K2/2P3p1/6P1/8 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Komodo32 3 32bit:
1.Ke3 Tg4 2.Kf3 Tg5 3.Kf4 Tf5+ 4.Kg4
-+ (-1.85) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 3kN
1.Kf3
-/+ (-1.02) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 4kN
1.Kf3 Tg5 2.Kf4 Tg6
= (0.00) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 4kN
...
1.Kf3 Tg5 2.Kf4 Tg6
= (0.00) Tiefe: 26 00:26:28 1145mN
1.Ke3
= (0.16) Tiefe: 26 00:26:52 1163mN
1.Ke3 Tg4
= (0.15) Tiefe: 26 00:34:53 1510mN
taking half an hour, I couldn't wait and entered 1.Ke3 but look what came at once then:
N3k1nR/p1p1Pp2/2P1pPr1/b2pP3/P1pP4/2P1K1p1/6P1/8 b - - 0 1
Analysis by Komodo32 3 32bit:
1...Tg4 2.Ke2 Tg5 3.Kd1 Tg4 4.Kc2
+- (4.43) Tiefe: 6 00:00:00 0kN
...
1...Tg4 2.Ke2 Tg6 3.Kd2 Tg5 4.Kc1 Tg4 5.Kd1 Tg6 6.Ke2 Tg4 7.Ke3 a6 8.Kf3 Tg5 9.Ke2 Tg6 10.Kd2 Tg5 11.Kc2 Tg6 12.Kc1 Tg4 13.Kd1 Tg5
+- (5.06) Tiefe: 22 00:00:36 31564kN
Of course, the output doesn't contain the point itself fully but going into the main variant with the full hash makes you sure, Komodo's got it.
So I don't have to show the solution, Komodo may do it for me.
Remark, I did switch off his nullmove of course.
Peter.
-
- Posts: 3186
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
- Full name: Peter Martan
Re: Test position
As a matter of fact this study is to me a very good example of the nonsense adjugdement by adjudicator does do studies nowadays, having to accord to rules like: major dual is to be avenged.
The message of this very fine piece of art seems to be: tell adjudicators to look twice if a dual isn't to be rewarded yet
I mean who cares, if this takes 30 (if you don't count the fen), 31, 32 or 33 moves to mate
The message of this very fine piece of art seems to be: tell adjudicators to look twice if a dual isn't to be rewarded yet
I mean who cares, if this takes 30 (if you don't count the fen), 31, 32 or 33 moves to mate
Peter.