TalkChess.com

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:40 pm**

Yes very interesting, but after 1 correct ran I got always "The position is not valid" message whatever I try

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:05 pm**

You are an incredible nice guy, Ruxy.
If you only let me know the girl in your avatar.

Yum yum regards
Fern

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:08 pm**

Or I get "unexpected error - FinalGen will be closed". In first try FG analysed 5 piece ending in about 1 second - it was too good to be true

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:47 pm**

Arpad Rusz wrote:I was curious if FinalGen solves the famous "Szén position" (which is a win for White) and some other similar positions:

1.Carrera (1617) and Szén (1840)
[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/3K4 w - - 0 1

2.Greco (1621)
[D]4k3/5ppp/8/8/8/8/PPP5/4K3 w - - 0 1

The first endgame is unsolvable with FinalGen, but it proves the win for White in the second position. The problem with the first one is that the win involves the following position which is unsolvable by the software:

1a.
[D]8/8/8/PkP5/1P4p1/5pKp/8/8 b - - 0 15

15...h2!? 16.Kh2 Kc4! 17.c6 Kd3 18.c7 f2 19.c8Q. Now White is winning (19...f1Q 20.Qa6+ +-) but this position cannot be evaluated by the program.

The next position is very easy to solve but I think it shows an original positional draw:
3.Rusz (2012)
[D]8/6p1/8/k1P5/5p1p/8/PP4K1/8 w - - 0 1

I find it very intersting that you state Final Gen cannot solve the first position. If it is a tablebase generator, then the tablebases base should look at every possible move, and thus be correct. If that is true, then either the tablebase it not complete/incorrect, or the winning position you provided may not be forced. I am running Final gen now, this has me very curious. Thanks

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:41 pm**

Robert Flesher wrote:I find it very intersting that you state Final Gen cannot solve the first position. If it is a tablebase generator, then the tablebases base should look at every possible move, and thus be correct. If that is true, then either the tablebase it not complete/incorrect, or the winning position you provided may not be forced. I am running Final gen now, this has me very curious. Thanks

That's the truth, you will see!

FinalGen's tablebases are not complete like Nalimov's etc. That is the prize paid for being able to generate tablebases with 7, 8 or even more pieces. There will be positions (the author estimates ~5%) with some kind of promotions that will not be solved. I don't fully understand it, but try this:

[D]6Q1/8/8/k7/8/8/p1K5/8 b - - 0 1

It is unsolvable only because the Knight promotion with check! (A bug or this is the natural thing with the author's algorithm? I don't know...)

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:48 pm**

Arpad Rusz wrote:
Robert Flesher wrote:I find it very intersting that you state Final Gen cannot solve the first position. If it is a tablebase generator, then the tablebases base should look at every possible move, and thus be correct. If that is true, then either the tablebase it not complete/incorrect, or the winning position you provided may not be forced. I am running Final gen now, this has me very curious. Thanks
That's the truth, you will see!
FinalGen's tablebases are not complete like Nalimov's etc. That is the prise for being able to generate tablebases with 7, 8 or even more pieces. There will be positions (the author estimates ~5%) with some kind of promotions that will not be solved. I don't fully understand it, but try this:

[D]6Q1/8/8/k7/8/8/p1K5/8 b - - 0 1

It is unsolvable only because the Knight promotion with check! (A bug or this is the natural thing with the author's algorithm? I don't know...)

I have always had the understanding that a tablebase includes all possible moves for a given position. If this understanding is correct, then the software is not generating the tablebase for every possible position; and thus the software is broken. I hope someone with a greater understanding can explain this further.

Posted: **Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:48 pm**

Hmm - I get antivirus message from no less than 5 dll files- no wonder is problems to run -> recycling bin.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:21 pm**

Hello:

I read an interesting post in Rybka Forum:

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforu ... ?tid=24565

pPerez wrote:WARNING! Virus Alert

Hi

I'm the main conceptor and developer of FinalGen.
This message is to inform you that the initial version of FinalGen was accidentally infected by a Troyan.

The viruses free version is available for download now, but if you downloaded the software before 22/03/2012, you should uninstall it immediately,
and remove the remaining files in the installation folder, if any.

You should also scan your whole system. You can scan is for free by using PANDA online active scan. (see link below)

http://www.pandasecurity.com/activescan/index/

There is still a false positive (that is, a virus detected but not a real virus). For example, AVAST blocks the DLL used by FinaGen.
I'm working to solve this problem.

I will keep you informed in my website.

I apologize for the inconvenience

Pedro Pérez

The author thinks that the first release was accidentally infected by a Trojan.

The viruses free version is available for download now, but if you downloaded the software before 22/03/2012, you should uninstall it immediately,
and remove the remaining files in the installation folder, if any.

I suppose that he refers to 20/03/2012. This reuploaded file was modified on 20/03/2012 (9:38), or at least this is what WinRAR shows in my PC; it has now the following CRC32 key: 4B98E4B2 (I post it for comparison purposes). FinalGenSetup.exe uncompressed current size are 4,415,648 bytes.

That is all. I would never link to a malware software if I know it. I analyzed the first release setup file with Norton 360 before starting this topic, and it did not detect anything; but I did not install the programme. I am really sorry if I unintentionally caused any problems.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:40 pm**

2 days ago, I wrote

Ignacio wrote:Is the software free of malware? After installing, Panda Antivirus says virus: Trj/CI.A

and the author confirmed me by e-mail.

Posted: **Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:29 pm**

Hi Ignacio.

Ignacio wrote:2 days ago, I wrote
Ignacio wrote:Is the software free of malware? After installing, Panda Antivirus says virus: Trj/CI.A
and the author confirmed me by e-mail.

It's almost impossible that there has been any virus/trojan in this program.
I've downloaded the first version 2 days ago and now also the new version dated 20.3.2012. All files have exactly the same sizes (in bytes), so I made a binary compare of all files and the only differences I found were about 5-7 bytes for each file (and most of them are just the compile date/time).
I doubt that any virus or trojan could be made in just a few (5-7) bytes!

Franz

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