Bashing the Berlin Wall

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Jack Lad
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Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Jack Lad » Tue May 15, 2012 10:27 am

Kramnik used this defence as a drawing weapon against Kasparov in their 2000 WCC match.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_ ... nship_2000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruy_Lopez#Berlin_Defence
However I think that if GK had played 4.d3! (Steinitz's move) instead of 4.0-0 then he could have won a few of his games. :shock:
[d] r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/1B2p3/4P3/3P1N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq - 0 4
I can not see any good moves for black here - can you? :roll:

Karol Majewski
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Karol Majewski » Tue May 15, 2012 11:14 am

Jack Lad wrote:Kramnik used this defence as a drawing weapon against Kasparov in their 2000 WCC match.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_ ... nship_2000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruy_Lopez#Berlin_Defence
However I think that if GK had played 4.d3! (Steinitz's move) instead of 4.0-0 then he could have won a few of his games. :shock:
[d] r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/1B2p3/4P3/3P1N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQK2R b KQkq - 0 4
I can not see any good moves for black here - can you? :roll:
Hi! I have analysed this line quite extensively. So far my conclusion is that there is no clear equalizing line for black. Here are some of the lines:

4...Bc5 5. Bxc6 dxc6 6. O-O I think this is the critical position. And now black has the following options:
Qd6, Qe7, Bd6, Bg4

The lines with Bg4 are very exciting: 6. ... Bg4 7. h3 Bh5 8. g4 Nxg4 9. hxg4 Bxg4 10.Be3

[D]r2qk2r/ppp2ppp/2p5/2b1p3/4P1b1/3PBN2/PPP2P2/RN1Q1RK1 b kq - 1 10

Now it's intresting to compare evaluations given by engines. Rybka finds that two pawns and a better king safety is a good compensation for the knight. All other top engines don't share this view.

So after 10.Be3 Black can play:
Qf6, Bd6, Be7

10...Qf6 Kg2 11.Bxe3 fxe3 12.Qe6 and probably Rf2 is the best now. This positon is very complicated.

10...Bd6 11. Kh1 [forced] Qd7 12. Rg1 [forced] Bh5! 13. Rg3 [forced] f5 14. Rg5 g6 15. exf5 Now Black has two options: Be7 and Rf8. Perhaps with 15.Rf8 he has some drawing chances.

10... Be7 11. Kg2 [forced] Qc8 12. Rh1 (after 12. Rg1 f5 is equalizing!) White should be better.

Of course there are lines with 4...d6. Very often they transpose to the positions typical for Ruy Lopez Closed. I still prefer them over Classical Berlin Wall with 4.O-O Nxe4 5.d4 etc.

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Jack Lad
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Jack Lad » Tue May 15, 2012 12:16 pm

Thanks for your analysis however I think that white should play 5. Be3 instead.
[d] r1bqk2r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/1Bb1p3/4P3/3PBN2/PPP2PPP/RN1QK2R b KQkq - 2 5
Black can now play either Bxe3 or Qe7.

If Bxe3 then 6. fxe3
If Qe7 then 6. Bxc6 or Bxc5

tano-urayoan
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by tano-urayoan » Tue May 15, 2012 4:31 pm

Of course after d3 black is totally lost, black players must resign this position asap.

By the way you could travel in time an handle your analysis to Kasparov as you know more than him about the opening.

Karol Majewski
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Karol Majewski » Tue May 15, 2012 7:28 pm

I still think that we should consider 5.Bxc6 dxc6 6.O-O as the main line. I remember Kramnik saying that he was prepareing for 4.d3 as Black before the match in 2000. He said that they have found an equlizing line although it wasn't easy.

Cubeman
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Cubeman » Tue May 15, 2012 10:04 pm

After 4.d3 I like 4..Ne7!?.

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Jack Lad
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Jack Lad » Tue May 15, 2012 10:15 pm

Cubeman wrote:After 4.d3 I like 4..Ne7!?.
Apart from setting a trap I can't see why black should play it. :roll:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruy_Lopez,_Mortimer_Trap

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Jack Lad
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Jack Lad » Tue May 15, 2012 10:23 pm

tano-urayoan wrote:Of course after d3 black is totally lost, black players must resign this position asap.

By the way you could travel in time an handle your analysis to Kasparov as you know more than him about the opening.
I know absolutely nothing about the RL since I have never played it. :lol:

Black should only resign if his position is lost and his opponent is a strong player. Black is certainly not lost after 4. d3 but I believe that it probably would have given GK a chance to defeat VK instead of adamantly and stubbornly sticking to 4. 0-0 all the time.

I would like to tell BG to stop playing 6. b3 and play c5! instead against the Slav if he wants to have any hope of beating Anand with the white pieces.

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Jack Lad
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Jack Lad » Tue May 15, 2012 10:27 pm

Karol Majewski wrote:I still think that we should consider 5.Bxc6 dxc6 6.O-O as the main line. I remember Kramnik saying that he was prepareing for 4.d3 as Black before the match in 2000. He said that they have found an equlizing line although it wasn't easy.
Perhaps but we should also consider how to play against 4...d6 too.
[d] r1bqkb1r/ppp2ppp/2np1n2/1B2p3/4P3/3P1N2/PPP2PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 0 5
5. Nc3 looks good here. 8-)

Cubeman
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Re: Bashing the Berlin Wall

Post by Cubeman » Tue May 15, 2012 11:26 pm

Jack Lad wrote:Thanks for your analysis however I think that white should play 5. Be3 instead.
[d] r1bqk2r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/1Bb1p3/4P3/3PBN2/PPP2PPP/RN1QK2R b KQkq - 2 5
Black can now play either Bxe3 or Qe7.

If Bxe3 then 6. fxe3
If Qe7 then 6. Bxc6 or Bxc5
After 5..Bxe3 6.fxe3 white does not score well and has a negative score when looking at GM games from recent times.

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