Junior update

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MM
Posts: 766
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:25 am

Junior update

Post by MM » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:47 pm

MM

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Rolf
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Location: Munster, Nuremberg, Princeton

Re: Junior update

Post by Rolf » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:40 pm

I took a look and have questions.

1) How can a program be Champion if the stronger programs Rybka Cluster & Houdini 2 would almost win all the games against this "Champion" and are banned of all official ICGA tournaments?

2) This program has allegedly Elo of over 3200. Such a number is pure fantasy when the best human Elo is below 2900. Why computerchess isnt making a fairer defining of the strength?

3) Last but not least, the actual human Wch certainly isnt playing with Junior but Rybka or Houdini, the actually best. Arent they?

IMO the price for Deep Junior is decent, but becasuse of the weaker strngth 30 € would be better.
-Popper and Lakatos are good but I'm stuck on Leibowitz

carldaman
Posts: 1674
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Junior update

Post by carldaman » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:35 pm

At least, Junior has a particularly attractive playing style. I think they even stated somewhere that in its development style was preferred over strength.

Regards,
CL

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geots
Posts: 4790
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:42 pm

Re: Junior update

Post by geots » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:01 am

carldaman wrote:At least, Junior has a particularly attractive playing style. I think they even stated somewhere that in its development style was preferred over strength.

Regards,
CL

Preferred over strength by exactly who- the programmer no doubt.


george

chrisw
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:28 pm

Re: Junior update

Post by chrisw » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:33 am

carldaman wrote:At least, Junior has a particularly attractive playing style. I think they even stated somewhere that in its development style was preferred over strength.

Regards,
CL
Ironic. When chess system tal had an "attractive agressive playing style" it was universally attacked on this board, led by the very same people who ganged up on Rybka and now Houdini, claiming that strength and Elo and winning were the only things that counted.

Karol Majewski
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 2:18 pm

Re: Junior update

Post by Karol Majewski » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:15 am

Via command line enter:

uci
go infinite

CRASH!

My patience is gone. Command line bug hasn't been fixed since ver. 12. Of course, you may ask: "why to use DJ via command line?". Well... that's not the point. The point is that 80$ engine should be stable.

Probably won't buy next Junior.

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Desperado
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:45 am

Re: Junior update

Post by Desperado » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:38 am

Karol Majewski wrote:Via command line enter:

uci
go infinite

CRASH!

My patience is gone. Command line bug hasn't been fixed since ver. 12. Of course, you may ask: "why to use DJ via command line?". Well... that's not the point. The point is that 80$ engine should be stable.

Probably won't buy next Junior.
Hello Karol,

if you use uci engines via console, there is a position command required by uci specifications.
So, if i look above, it is a user problem _not_ an engine problem. Well, and if you like to try

position startpos
go infinite

and it crashes too, i fully support your statement.

regards

tomgdrums
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Re: Junior update

Post by tomgdrums » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:06 am

geots wrote:
carldaman wrote:At least, Junior has a particularly attractive playing style. I think they even stated somewhere that in its development style was preferred over strength.

Regards,
CL

Preferred over strength by exactly who- the programmer no doubt.


george
Actually, "style" is fairly important to me as it provides me with different options when doing post game analysis on my own games and it provides for different types of playing partners. All the engines are SO strong it doesn't matter too much at this point for the purposes I use them for.

Now for pure eng. vs eng. testing strength does trump style for the most part.

What a person looks for in an engine depends on what he or she is going to be using it for.

tomgdrums
Posts: 736
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:48 am

Re: Junior update

Post by tomgdrums » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:09 am

chrisw wrote:
carldaman wrote:At least, Junior has a particularly attractive playing style. I think they even stated somewhere that in its development style was preferred over strength.

Regards,
CL
Ironic. When chess system tal had an "attractive agressive playing style" it was universally attacked on this board, led by the very same people who ganged up on Rybka and now Houdini, claiming that strength and Elo and winning were the only things that counted.
Chess System Tal (I had II) was one of my favorite engines to play against! Unfortunately I can't get it to work on my new computer with Windows 7 but CS Tal is a VERY fun program and was one of my better purchases.

ELO is not ALL that matters. (at least to me)

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geots
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:42 pm

Re: Junior update

Post by geots » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:13 pm

tomgdrums wrote:
geots wrote:
carldaman wrote:At least, Junior has a particularly attractive playing style. I think they even stated somewhere that in its development style was preferred over strength.

Regards,
CL

Preferred over strength by exactly who- the programmer no doubt.


george
Actually, "style" is fairly important to me as it provides me with different options when doing post game analysis on my own games and it provides for different types of playing partners. All the engines are SO strong it doesn't matter too much at this point for the purposes I use them for.

Now for pure eng. vs eng. testing strength does trump style for the most part.

What a person looks for in an engine depends on what he or she is going to be using it for.


I have to agree with everything you say. But I would think that if Junior offered a normal version and a "deep" version, you could get that style and information without having to pay extra for "deep".


gts

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