CA 13

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Albert Silver
Posts: 2867
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: CA 13

Post by Albert Silver » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:59 am

Alexander Schmidt wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:I probably realize better than you. I was a developer of Chess Assistant for several years. In fact if you open up the program and check the Help menu, my name is still cited in it.
Then you should at least look at the offer, what is included and what not before you are dumping it down to
Albert Silver wrote:It only comes with the main program....
Quite right. I actually was quite interested to see they are now charging for access to the online server and have relaunched the game update service. I wonder what they have done to the server to feel they can do this profitably. It must have changed a lot since I saw it last year.
And btw, we coul now start a long discussion who of us contributed more to computerchess.
What makes you think I have any interest in such a discussion?
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

Albert Silver
Posts: 2867
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: CA 13

Post by Albert Silver » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:04 am

jdart wrote:ChessBase is awesome. It has its quirks, but I use it every day. Getting game updates is expensive so I've been subsisting on TWIC for a while. But ChessBase includes a lot of games you would not otherwise get.

--Jon
Obviously I get it for free, so will not comment, but as a free agent, my hands down favorite product was ChessBase Magazine and still is. I don't think there is anything in the CB stable that comes with as much bang for the buck as a subscription to it. The new, and pretty cheap 60-minute series are a cool idea too, but there are not all equal in quality IMHO.

As to CB12, I should be getting an early build possibly next week, to familiarize myself and start the presentations of course.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

Alexander Schmidt
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:49 pm

Re: CA 13

Post by Alexander Schmidt » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:13 am

Albert Silver wrote:What makes you think I have any interest in such a discussion?
Besause you didn't bring on an argument but some explenation why you know it better than me.
Albert Silver wrote:I probably realize better than you. I was a developer of Chess Assistant for several years. In fact if you open up the program and check the Help menu, my name is still cited in it.
But at least we agree now about the coverage of CA 13 :)

oreopoulos
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:56 pm

Re: CA 13

Post by oreopoulos » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:53 am

Actually CB and CA are very old programs. They haven't be really updated for YEARS

That said, CA has features that CB does not come even close.

In any case, i still prefer Aquarium hand down. The analysis features are much ahead of everything else (CA has some similar features but they are not polished and hard to use).

If and when Aquarium gets the DB features of CA, then there is simply no comparison.

CB lacks a lot in analytical features (and yes i have worked with both)

Albert Silver
Posts: 2867
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: CA 13

Post by Albert Silver » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:29 pm

Alexander Schmidt wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:What makes you think I have any interest in such a discussion?
Besause you didn't bring on an argument but some explenation why you know it better than me.

Isn't that how you first replied to me?
Albert Silver wrote:I probably realize better than you. I was a developer of Chess Assistant for several years. In fact if you open up the program and check the Help menu, my name is still cited in it.
But at least we agree now about the coverage of CA 13 :)
Not really.

The server was free for years, and suffered from very low attendance. Now they are charging entry to it, but I have not seen any major upheavals to aggregate value, nor a significant change in the number of members. Don't get me wrong, the server has a number of good qualities, several of which I conceived and designed, but suddenly charging entry to a server that suffered from poor attendance seems a strange decision. I wish them all the best of course.

The database update service has not changed. I can only presume they patched the service since a dirty secret is that any CA user had access throughout the year at no cost, despite the offers to charge for the service (which always made me wonder).

They are now completely committed to the Aquarium UI, which contains many of the CA features, but call me biased: I still prefer the original, in spite of its age. I'd just clean it up a bit, remove a good amount of the bloat, and give it a facelift.

For a previous owner, the issue is this: if they owned CA8, why would they buy CA13? They are literally the same, and only changed the number.

The real selling point is the inclusion of Houdini 3.

Still, comparing this 140 dollar package with the Premium package of CB is silly. There is still no comparison. It is not about CB being better than CA, it is simply that the CB Premium package contains so much more. A better comparison would be one of CB's cheaper packages.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

Albert Silver
Posts: 2867
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: CA 13

Post by Albert Silver » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:34 pm

oreopoulos wrote:Actually CB and CA are very old programs. They haven't be really updated for YEARS

That said, CA has features that CB does not come even close.

In any case, i still prefer Aquarium hand down. The analysis features are much ahead of everything else (CA has some similar features but they are not polished and hard to use).

If and when Aquarium gets the DB features of CA, then there is simply no comparison.

CB lacks a lot in analytical features (and yes i have worked with both)
Actually, CB has been updated a lot over the years. And for someone who has worked with them, you should know that CB doesn't have ANY analytical features. Those are reserved for Fritz.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

Alexander Schmidt
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:49 pm

Re: CA 13

Post by Alexander Schmidt » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:34 pm

Albert Silver wrote:
Alexander Schmidt wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:What makes you think I have any interest in such a discussion?
Besause you didn't bring on an argument but some explenation why you know it better than me.

Isn't that how you first replied to me?
Albert Silver wrote:I probably realize better than you. I was a developer of Chess Assistant for several years. In fact if you open up the program and check the Help menu, my name is still cited in it.
But at least we agree now about the coverage of CA 13 :)
Not really.

The server was free for years, and suffered from very low attendance. Now they are charging entry to it, but I have not seen any major upheavals to aggregate value, nor a significant change in the number of members. Don't get me wrong, the server has a number of good qualities, several of which I conceived and designed, but suddenly charging entry to a server that suffered from poor attendance seems a strange decision. I wish them all the best of course.

The database update service has not changed. I can only presume they patched the service since a dirty secret is that any CA user had access throughout the year at no cost, despite the offers to charge for the service (which always made me wonder).

They are now completely committed to the Aquarium UI, which contains many of the CA features, but call me biased: I still prefer the original, in spite of its age. I'd just clean it up a bit, remove a good amount of the bloat, and give it a facelift.

For a previous owner, the issue is this: if they owned CA8, why would they buy CA13? They are literally the same, and only changed the number.

The real selling point is the inclusion of Houdini 3.

Still, comparing this 140 dollar package with the Premium package of CB is silly. There is still no comparison. It is not about CB being better than CA, it is simply that the CB Premium package contains so much more. A better comparison would be one of CB's cheaper packages.
I don't have a CA product. But I can say that sometimes it is better to keep a good concept instead of switching to a new one. The latest Fritz GUI is just awful to use if you used CB products for some years. And no, I don't get used to it. I tried it for a long time but switched back to the older Gui. It feels like all the same features, just hidden somewhere else.

If I would need some analysis tool, a huge databsae with weekly updates and beside that a stroung engine, CA looks like a good deal to me. I still wouldn't buy it because I would not spend money in a tuned Open Source engine, but thats a matter of taste :)

Albert Silver
Posts: 2867
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

Re: CA 13

Post by Albert Silver » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:48 pm

Alexander Schmidt wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:
Alexander Schmidt wrote:
Albert Silver wrote:What makes you think I have any interest in such a discussion?
Besause you didn't bring on an argument but some explenation why you know it better than me.

Isn't that how you first replied to me?
Albert Silver wrote:I probably realize better than you. I was a developer of Chess Assistant for several years. In fact if you open up the program and check the Help menu, my name is still cited in it.
But at least we agree now about the coverage of CA 13 :)
Not really.

The server was free for years, and suffered from very low attendance. Now they are charging entry to it, but I have not seen any major upheavals to aggregate value, nor a significant change in the number of members. Don't get me wrong, the server has a number of good qualities, several of which I conceived and designed, but suddenly charging entry to a server that suffered from poor attendance seems a strange decision. I wish them all the best of course.

The database update service has not changed. I can only presume they patched the service since a dirty secret is that any CA user had access throughout the year at no cost, despite the offers to charge for the service (which always made me wonder).

They are now completely committed to the Aquarium UI, which contains many of the CA features, but call me biased: I still prefer the original, in spite of its age. I'd just clean it up a bit, remove a good amount of the bloat, and give it a facelift.

For a previous owner, the issue is this: if they owned CA8, why would they buy CA13? They are literally the same, and only changed the number.

The real selling point is the inclusion of Houdini 3.

Still, comparing this 140 dollar package with the Premium package of CB is silly. There is still no comparison. It is not about CB being better than CA, it is simply that the CB Premium package contains so much more. A better comparison would be one of CB's cheaper packages.
I don't have a CA product.
So you made sarcastic remarks and then started a big discussion on the features of a program you know nothing about?

I'll know better than to reply in the future.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

Alexander Schmidt
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:49 pm

Re: CA 13

Post by Alexander Schmidt » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:10 pm

Albert Silver wrote:So you made sarcastic remarks and then started a big discussion on the features of a program you know nothing about?
Well, obviously I knew more about the offer than you did because I took the time to read the information before doing false statements. And yes, I started a discussion. Thats what a discussion forum is usually used for.
Albert Silver wrote:I'll know better than to reply in the future.
I wouldn't miss your false statements based on smattering :)

Gino Figlio
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:10 am
Location: Lamar, Colorado, USA

Re: CA 13

Post by Gino Figlio » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:54 am

oreopoulos wrote:
That said, CA has features that CB does not come even close.

In any case, i still prefer Aquarium hand down. The analysis features are much ahead of everything else (CA has some similar features but they are not polished and hard to use).

If and when Aquarium gets the DB features of CA, then there is simply no comparison.

CB lacks a lot in analytical features (and yes i have worked with both)
I agree, Aquarium is the superior product. It does not make sense anymore to use separate programs for database functions and analysis.

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