CA 13

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oreopoulos
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Re: CA 13

Post by oreopoulos » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:16 am

Albert Silver wrote: Those are reserved for Fritz.
CB has stopped to innovate for many years now. (fritz included)

Surelly CB looks much better than CA (which is also a very old program), but comparing functionality gives CA the win hands down.

The basic problem with ChessOK, is that there database product is dated (not as functionality is concerned , since DB products are mature years now)

Once (hopefully) Aquarium gets a strong DB component, there would simply be no comparison whatsoever.

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Ponti
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Re: CA 13

Post by Ponti » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:13 pm

I'm also a fan of Aquarium.

It has many great features for analysis.

The existence of two programs - one to play against and another to use as a full database - is weird, maybe the right direction is to incorporate CA features inside Aquarium.

Chessbase could do the same - incorporate FRITZ GUI features inside CB.

Game updates is an essential service that has to come bundled with the database program (as it is useful for all kinds of players).

If you just want another engine (like Shredder, or Hiarcs, Junior), you could just buy the engine, not another GUI (like an UCI engine...).

CA makes the same mistake now (there's a Deep Rybka Aquarium, and now a Houdini Aquarium... ).

Well, the way the seller thinks (they think about _making_money_) is not the way some customers think (to save money) - but if they heard the customers (hey, Chessbase!)...

Chess Assistant customer support is _far_better_ than Chessbase's (at least for me, when I needed support).

I like Playchess and I think it is a better server than Chess Planet, but I like playing correspondence at Chess Planet.

Chess Planet's language support is weak.

Well, Fritz doesn't come in portuguese too...

I can't tell nothing about the CB Magazine, never read it. (Is it like Europe Échecs or New in Chess?)

Endgame databases in DVDs... well, access Tablebases in Internet, this is a better way to do it (at least for analysis), maybe for computer chess enthusiasts it is better to have a hard disk full of tablebases, but it is not for me...
A. Ponti
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931

Albert Silver
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Re: CA 13

Post by Albert Silver » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:53 am

Ponti wrote:I'm also a fan of Aquarium.

It has many great features for analysis.

The existence of two programs - one to play against and another to use as a full database - is weird, maybe the right direction is to incorporate CA features inside Aquarium.

Chessbase could do the same - incorporate FRITZ GUI features inside CB.
It will not happen. For one thing, they need a separation of functions, not only to simplify the program's functionality, but to not confuse the two.
Game updates is an essential service that has to come bundled with the database program (as it is useful for all kinds of players).
The database program is what is sold, and the database it comes with is the essential item. There are a wide variety of services and items once can define as essential, but at some point the consumer will have to decide which one he wishes to purchase.
If you just want another engine (like Shredder, or Hiarcs, Junior), you could just buy the engine, not another GUI (like an UCI engine...).

CA makes the same mistake now (there's a Deep Rybka Aquarium, and now a Houdini Aquarium... ).
Actually, the opposite is true. Selling only the engine without a GUI is a blunder the companies have learned to not make again.
I can't tell nothing about the CB Magazine, never read it. (Is it like Europe Échecs or New in Chess?).
It is a multimedia magazine. It comes with a booklet, but is a DVD, with commented games, both in text and video, opening articles, and much more. There is nothing like it.
"Tactics are the bricks and sticks that make up a game, but positional play is the architectural blueprint."

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Ponti
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Re: CA 13

Post by Ponti » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:34 am

Albert Silver wrote:
Ponti wrote:I'm also a fan of Aquarium.

It has many great features for analysis.

The existence of two programs - one to play against and another to use as a full database - is weird, maybe the right direction is to incorporate CA features inside Aquarium.

Chessbase could do the same - incorporate FRITZ GUI features inside CB.
It will not happen. For one thing, they need a separation of functions, not only to simplify the program's functionality, but to not confuse the two.

==> It seems that the Hiarcs team don´t think the same way, as they launched HCE with both functions (ok, you´ll complain that ther´s no comparison because it is a much simpler GUI, it has less features, ...). So I still don´t understand why CB and CA can´t do the same.
Game updates is an essential service that has to come bundled with the database program (as it is useful for all kinds of players).
The database program is what is sold, and the database it comes with is the essential item. There are a wide variety of services and items once can define as essential, but at some point the consumer will have to decide which one he wishes to purchase.

==> A database program with a databse which is not updated is useless to both the OTB player and specially the correspondence player. The point is: I buy Megadatabase 2010 or Chess Assistant 2010 version. Next I update it with games, weekly. Why would I have to buy Megadatabase 2011, then 2012 and so on (or the CA 2011, 2012...) ?

CA 13 mega package for US$200 and you get CA, Houdini3, Aquarium, Chess Planet and games (weekly updates ), Opening Encyclopaedia and Nalimov Tablebases on DVDs... it is a good deal, but the marketing strategy is the same that CB does.
If you just want another engine (like Shredder, or Hiarcs, Junior), you could just buy the engine, not another GUI (like an UCI engine...).

CA makes the same mistake now (there's a Deep Rybka Aquarium, and now a Houdini Aquarium... ).
Actually, the opposite is true. Selling only the engine without a GUI is a blunder the companies have learned to not make again.

==> Why? Because of piracy? Is it that difficult to avoid it?
Are Chessbase or Chess Assistant interested in making UCI engines "not fully compatible" with their GUIs just to sell more? (I don´t want to believe that, but I´m asking.) I remember that winboard engines are not fully compatible (ok there are many technical reasons... UCI is a better protocol).
I can't tell nothing about the CB Magazine, never read it. (Is it like Europe Échecs or New in Chess?).
It is a multimedia magazine. It comes with a booklet, but is a DVD, with commented games, both in text and video, opening articles, and much more. There is nothing like it.
===> Ok, that is really a plus. CA does not offer that.
A. Ponti
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931

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