is the new houdini worth the money

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ozziejoe
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is the new houdini worth the money

Post by ozziejoe » Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:28 pm

I know it is about 90 points stronger than the next engine, and am wondering if this is enough of an improvement to spend 80 dollars. After all the engine-origin discussion, i feel a little jaded about paying money for an engine.

I use engines mostly to analyze my games.

Do you think it is worth the money?

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JuLieN
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Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by JuLieN » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:07 pm

ozziejoe wrote:I know it is about 90 points stronger than the next engine, and am wondering if this is enough of an improvement to spend 80 dollars. After all the engine-origin discussion, i feel a little jaded about paying money for an engine.

I use engines mostly to analyze my games.

Do you think it is worth the money?
The answer is very simple: you can get Stockfish and Critter for free. If, after using them, you still fear that you would be disadvantaged against someone who would analyze with Houdini, then you need Houdini and it's worth its price. ;)
"The only good bug is a dead bug." (Don Dailey)
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Cubeman
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Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by Cubeman » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:50 pm

If using engine to review one's over the board or human vs human games then Houdini is overkill and you get just as much advice from the free versions of Critter or StockFish. Most of the analysis of these top engines is so hard to really grasp, much like viewing EGTB of various 5 or 6 men. You get perfect information but really can you follow those mysterious Queen moves in Q+P vs Q.

ozziejoe
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Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by ozziejoe » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:03 am

Yeah, you folks are probably right. Stockfish is all a player *needs*.

It takes stockfish 2.2.2 till depth of 28 before it finds the exciting 11. B4! in this opening position. kind of a reverse benko gambit. What does houdini 3.0 like at depth of 28.



r2qk2r/pp3ppp/2nb1nb1/2p1p3/2NpP1P1/3P1N1P/PPP2PB1/R1BQ1RK1 w kq - 3 11


[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "agressive kings indian"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[ECO "A07"]

1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 Bg4 3.Bg2 c5 4.d3 ( 4.d4 ) 4...Nf6 5.Nbd2 Nc6 6.O-O e5 7.e4 d4 8.h3 Bh5 9.g4 Bg6 10.Nc4 Bd6 11.b4 cxb4 12.a3 bxa3 ( 12...O-O 13.axb4 b5 14.Nfxe5 Nxe5 15.Nxd6 Qxd6 16.f4 Ned7 17.E5 ) *

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Houdini
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Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by Houdini » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:08 am

ozziejoe wrote:I know it is about 90 points stronger than the next engine, and am wondering if this is enough of an improvement to spend 80 dollars. After all the engine-origin discussion, i feel a little jaded about paying money for an engine.

I use engines mostly to analyze my games.

Do you think it is worth the money?
The price of Houdini 3 Standard is 39.95 EUR or about 52 dollars.
I don't know whether that is a reasonable price for the strongest chess engine ever. Probably not. ;)

Robert

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kranium
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Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by kranium » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:14 am

ozziejoe wrote:I know it is about 90 points stronger than the next engine, and am wondering if this is enough of an improvement to spend 80 dollars. After all the engine-origin discussion, i feel a little jaded about paying money for an engine.

I use engines mostly to analyze my games.

Do you think it is worth the money?
http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%2 ... liste.html

Code: Select all

no	Program	Elo	+	-	Games	Score	Av.Op.	Draws
1	Houdini 3 x64 1CPU	[b]3050[/b]	14	14	1350	67.3%	2925	41.8%
2	Houdini 1.5a x64 1CPU	[b]3005[/b]	12	12	1997	67.0%	2883	37.6%
Absolutely not...
1.5 is free and will work just as well when employed in a diligent and sytematic manner analyzing human games

Critter, IvanHoe, Stockfish, etc... (any strong engine) will also do the trick nicely

Code: Select all

5	Critter 1.6 x64 1CPU	[b]2985[/b]	13	13	1451	58.6%	2924	48.9%
6	Komodo 4.0 x64 1CPU	[b]2975[/b]	12	12	1839	55.0%	2940	45.9%
Last edited by kranium on Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

ozziejoe
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Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by ozziejoe » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:24 am

i was wrong about depth. stockfish does not like 11b4 even at depth 29. I'm waiting for it to find B4 again

Stockfish 2.2.2:
+0.32/29 11.Nxd6+ Qxd6 12.Nh4
+0.32/28 11.c3 O-O 12.cxd4 cxd4 13.Nxd6 Qxd6 14.Nh4 Nd7 15.f4 exf4 16.Bxf4 Nce5 17.Qa4 Qb6 18.Qa3 Rfc8 19.Nf3 Nxf3+ 20.Bxf3 Qb5 21.Rac1 Ne5 22.Be2 f6 23.Bxe5 fxe5 24.Qd6 Rxc1
+0.20/28 11.Qe1 O-O 12.Nxd6 Qxd6 13.Nh4 Nd7 14.f4 exf4 15.Nf5 Qe6 16.Bxf4 Nde5 17.a3 c4 18.Bxe5 Nxe5 19.Qb4 cxd3 20.cxd3 Nxd3 21.Qxd4 Ne5 22.Rad1 Rfe8 23.Qb4 h5 24.Rd5

gerold
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Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by gerold » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:33 am

ozziejoe wrote:I know it is about 90 points stronger than the next engine, and am wondering if this is enough of an improvement to spend 80 dollars. After all the engine-origin discussion, i feel a little jaded about paying money for an engine.

I use engines mostly to analyze my games.

Do you think it is worth the money?
Yes.

ozziejoe
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:07 pm

Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by ozziejoe » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:27 am

I love b4. stockfish finds it at 31. Man these engines get deep these days

Stockfish 2.2.2:
+0.44/31 11.b4 cxb4 12.a3 b3 13.Nxd6+ Qxd6 14.cxb3 O-O 15.b4 Nd7 16.Bd2 a6 17.Qb3 Rfc8 18.Nh4 Qe7 19.Nxg6 hxg6 20.f4 a5 21.Qd5 Nf6 22.Qb5 axb4 23.axb4 Rxa1 24.Rxa1 exf4 25.Bxf4 Qxb4 26.Rb1
+0.32/31 11.Nxd6+ Qxd6 12.Nh4 Nd7 13.f4 f6 14.g5 O-O-O 15.Bd2 Kb8 16.a3 Rhg8 17.Qe2 Rde8 18.Rab1 exf4 19.Bxf4 Nde5 20.gxf6 gxf6 21.Qf2 Ka8 22.Kh1 c4 23.dxc4 Qd7 24.c5
+0.24/30 11.Bg5 h6 12.Bh4 O-O 13.Bg3 Re8 14.Nxd6 Qxd6 15.Nh4 Nd7 16.f4 exf4 17.Bxf4 Nde5 18.Bg3 Bh7 19.a3 Qe7 20.Qd2 f6 21.Nf3 Qc7 22.Kh2

ozziejoe
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Re: is the new houdini worth the money

Post by ozziejoe » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:29 am

I am looking at this, where it looks like the advantage of houdini is much bigger

http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/

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