Chess-Engines with unique and incomparable playing style

[Master Om]

New game
[d]r2q1rk1/ppp1ppbp/2np1np1/8/2PPP3/2NBBQ1P/PP3PP1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Houdini 3 Pro x64 Tactical:

1...Nd7 2.d5 Nce5 3.Qd1 Nxd3+ 4.Qxd3 c6 5.0-0 cxd5 6.cxd5 Nc5 7.Bxc5 dxc5 8.Rac1 Rc8 9.Rc2 a6 10.Rfc1 Qd6 11.Ne2 Bh6 12.Rf1 Bg7 13.Rfc1 Bh6
= (0.00) Depth: 24/53 00:01:03 663mN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)


New game
[d]r2q1rk1/ppp1ppbp/2np1np1/8/2PPP3/2NBBQ1P/PP3PP1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Stockfish 120331P intel x64:

1...Nd7 2.d5 Bxc3+ 3.bxc3 Nce5 4.Qd1 Nxd3+ 5.Qxd3 c5 6.Rb1 Qa5 7.Rxb7 Ne5 8.Qc2 Rfb8 9.Rb3 Nxc4 10.0-0 Nxe3 11.fxe3 c4 12.Rbb1 Kg7 13.g3 h6 14.Qf2 f6
=/+ (-0.40 ++) Depth: 28/39 00:00:26 167mN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)

New game
[d]r2q1rk1/ppp1ppbp/2np1np1/8/2PPP3/2NBBQ1P/PP3PP1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3:

1...Nd7 2.d5 Nd4 3.Qd1 c5 4.0-0 a6 5.Rb1 Qa5 6.a3 Rac8 7.f4 Rfd8
= (-0.03) Depth: 15 00:00:07 1349kN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)

[carldaman]

Those were examples of Houdini's "meaningless mainstream-chess".

Hah, I see your point, but we already knew Houdini could play great games, as do all the Ippos. Maybe having so many Ippo relatives around makes them all less unique (the original subject of the thread).

Still, I'm by no means a Houdini-detractor. I just hope to see more tunability in order to add not just more strength, but also more creative personality (or personalities, if you will).

Regards,
CL

[JBNielsen]

New game
[d]r2q1rk1/ppp1ppbp/2np1np1/8/2PPP3/2NBBQ1P/PP3PP1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Houdini 3 Pro x64 Tactical:

1...Nd7 2.d5 Nce5 3.Qd1 Nxd3+ 4.Qxd3 c6 5.0-0 cxd5 6.cxd5 Nc5 7.Bxc5 dxc5 8.Rac1 Rc8 9.Rc2 a6 10.Rfc1 Qd6 11.Ne2 Bh6 12.Rf1 Bg7 13.Rfc1 Bh6
= (0.00) Depth: 24/53 00:01:03 663mN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)


New game
[d]r2q1rk1/ppp1ppbp/2np1np1/8/2PPP3/2NBBQ1P/PP3PP1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Stockfish 120331P intel x64:

1...Nd7 2.d5 Bxc3+ 3.bxc3 Nce5 4.Qd1 Nxd3+ 5.Qxd3 c5 6.Rb1 Qa5 7.Rxb7 Ne5 8.Qc2 Rfb8 9.Rb3 Nxc4 10.0-0 Nxe3 11.fxe3 c4 12.Rbb1 Kg7 13.g3 h6 14.Qf2 f6
=/+ (-0.40 ++) Depth: 28/39 00:00:26 167mN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)

New game
[d]r2q1rk1/ppp1ppbp/2np1np1/8/2PPP3/2NBBQ1P/PP3PP1/R3K2R b KQ - 0 1

Analysis by Rybka 3:

1...Nd7 2.d5 Nd4 3.Qd1 c5 4.0-0 a6 5.Rb1 Qa5 6.a3 Rac8 7.f4 Rfd8
= (-0.03) Depth: 15 00:00:07 1349kN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)

I have improved this position:

[d]r1bqr1k1/ppp1p1bp/2np1n2/8/2PPP2p/1PNBBQ2/PR3PPN/4K1R1 b - - 1 1

Black can play 1.-,e5 with a 0.20 advantage.
But he can also try the swindle 1.-,Nd7?! that gives white an advantage of 0.50 if he plays 2.Qh5.
But if white plays 2.Ne2??, Nce5! black gets a winning advantage of 3.50.

Depending on how much we want to swindle depending on the cost/benefit 1.-,Nd7 is the right move.

Does any engine play this move now?


I think the human-killer-engine should have 3 parameters.

1) how much do we want to swindle
2) how much will we give to get open and complex positions
3) how much will we skip looking at the opponents apparently bad looking moves to give more power for the engine to find good moves for itself (this will give more human style of play as the engine may miss the opponents combinations)

[JBNielsen]

I have improved this position:

[d]r1bqr1k1/ppp1p1bp/2np1n2/8/2PPP2p/1PNBBQ2/PR3PPN/4K1R1 b - - 1 1

Black can play 1.-,e5 with a 0.20 advantage.
But he can also try the swindle 1.-,Nd7?! that gives white an advantage of 0.50 if he plays 2.Qh5.
But if white plays 2.Ne2??, Nce5! black gets a winning advantage of 3.50.

Depending on how much we want to swindle depending on the cost/benefit 1.-,Nd7 is the right move.

I forgot to mention one important thing when you will decide to do a swindle here or not.

2.Qh5 is not very obvious. Whites second best move is 2.Kd2, and it gives black an advantage of 0.30.

Of course it shall also be considered, that 2.Ne2 seems to be a natural move as it covers pawn d4, and 2.-,Ne5 is hard to see because e5 is covered by the white pawn on d4.

[Master Om]

New game
[d]r1bqr1k1/ppp1p1bp/2np1n2/8/2PPP2p/1PNBBQ2/PR3PPN/4K1R1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Stockfish 120331P intel x64:

1...e5 2.d5 Nd4 3.Qd1 Bd7 4.Ne2 Qe7 5.Bg5 Qf7 6.Bxh4 Rf8 7.Nxd4 exd4 8.Qf3 Nxe4 9.Qxf7+ Rxf7 10.Bxe4 Rf4 11.Re2 Rxh4 12.Nf3 Rg4 13.Bd3 Rf8 14.Kf1 Re8 15.Rxe8+ Bxe8 16.g3
= (-0.04 --) Depth: 27/49 00:01:41 644mN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)

New game
[d]r1bqr1k1/ppp1p1bp/2np1n2/8/2PPP2p/1PNBBQ2/PR3PPN/4K1R1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by HIARCS Paderborn 2007 MP:

1...e5 2.d5 Nd4 3.Qd1 Bd7 4.g3 hxg3 5.Rxg3 c5 6.dxc6 bxc6 7.Be2 Kh8 8.Bg5 Qe7 9.Ng4 Qf8
+/= (0.56) Depth: 17/41 00:00:55 137mN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)

New game
[d]r1bqr1k1/ppp1p1bp/2np1n2/8/2PPP2p/1PNBBQ2/PR3PPN/4K1R1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Houdini 3 Pro x64 Tactical:

1...e5 2.d5 Nd4 3.Qd1 Rf8 4.Nb5 Qe7 5.Rd2 a6 6.Nxd4 exd4 7.Bg5 Qe8 8.Qc2 Nd7 9.Bxh4 Nc5 10.Bg3 Bf5 11.Re2 Bg6 12.Nf3 Qe7 13.Bh4 Bf6 14.Bxf6 Qxf6
= (0.00) Depth: 18/52 00:00:19 166mN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)

New game
[d]r1bqr1k1/ppp1p1bp/2np1n2/8/2PPP2p/1PNBBQ2/PR3PPN/4K1R1 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Critter 1.6a 64-bit KA:

1...e5 2.d5 Nd4 3.Qd1 c6 4.Bg5 Bd7 5.Ne2 Qb6 6.Nf3 h3 7.Nfxd4 exd4 8.Bxf6 Bxf6 9.gxh3+ Bg7 10.Qd2
+/= (0.32) Depth: 18/48 00:00:23 183mN
(Prakash, Bhubaneswar 15.02.2013)

[Henryval]

as You said Carl...it would be interesting, if r. houdart do something to make it possible to adjust houdinis playingstyle. i am sure, he will sometimes, because houdini then will be not only the strongest engine on this planet. houdini will become the most usefull chessteacher for everyone.

some ideas out there?

[carldaman]

as You said Carl...it would be interesting, if r. houdart do something to make it possible to adjust houdinis playingstyle. i am sure, he will sometimes, because houdini then will be not only the strongest engine on this planet. houdini will become the most usefull chessteacher for everyone.

some ideas out there?

Thanks, Joe B. I hope someone is paying attention.

I'll reiterate two possible ideas for creating a more human-like opponent, as suggested in the 'Nostalgia' thread.


1. A wild and crazy attacking style, closely emulating a Tal or Morphy type of player, with a high contempt setting and swindle capability

or

2. A knowledge-laden program geared towards strategic/positional chess, strong in the endgame, but weaker tactically and still having the contempt setting and swindle feature, as above

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=47169

Pure strength is not everything.

Regards,
CL