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Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:09 am
by jd1
lucasart wrote:
CositasBuenas wrote:Sorry, my mistake. But I see there are only 32 bit executables included.
I bet 32-bit is just as fast, if not faster for Toga. That's because it's based on Fruit, which doesn't use bitboards.
That's right. 64-but compiles have been tried but they are no faster ...

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:14 am
by jd1
lucasart wrote:
jd1 wrote:
jd1 wrote:Hi everyone!

This is this new release of Toga II 3.0, thanks to Jim Ablett for the compilation.

http://www.computerchess.info/tdbb/phpB ... hp?id=1402

Features:
- scores 64% against previous Toga versions at various time controls, so should be a decent strength improvement.
- Multi-PV fixed

For more details see readme.txt where a full list of changes may be found.

Hope you enjoy using Toga :)

Jerry
To clarify: it scored +100 elo (64%) against Toga II 2.02 in 6000 games, 2000 at 10' + 0.1" and 4000 at 1 min + 0.1 s / move. It also defeated Toga Returns 1.1 and Toga 1.4.1 SE by similar margins.
That's really impressive. Congratulations! I know that it's hard to gain 100 elo at this level. It's possible that the results are a little inflated by self-play, but still, even if it's only 80 elo in rating list conditions, it's a huge step forward :D
Thanks Lucas! Not as impressive as writing your own strong engine though :) Congratulations on Discocheck 4.1 too! I doubt it will be 80 elo though, because most of the gain is in a more efficient search - it gets 1 depth further on average. I think 1 extra iteration is worth more in self-play than against other engines. What do you think?

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:26 am
by lucasart
jd1 wrote: I doubt it will be 80 elo though, because most of the gain is in a more efficient search - it gets 1 depth further on average. I think 1 extra iteration is worth more in self-play than against other engines. What do you think?
I really don't know. What is possible is that 1 depth gives you less and less elo as time control increases (depth and diminishing returns). We shall see, as rating lists test it :D

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:31 am
by geots
lucasart wrote:
CositasBuenas wrote:Sorry, my mistake. But I see there are only 32 bit executables included.
I bet 32-bit is just as fast, if not faster for Toga. That's because it's based on Fruit, which doesn't use bitboards.


Crap on all that. I still can't find the DoubleCheck 4.1 you just released. I have looked everywhere, but I must be getting directed to the wrong page by some malicious malware!
:( :cry: :cry:


gts

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:36 am
by Graham Banks
geots wrote:
lucasart wrote:
CositasBuenas wrote:Sorry, my mistake. But I see there are only 32 bit executables included.
I bet 32-bit is just as fast, if not faster for Toga. That's because it's based on Fruit, which doesn't use bitboards.


Crap on all that. I still can't find the DoubleCheck 4.1 you just released. I have looked everywhere, but I must be getting directed to the wrong page by some malicious malware!
:( :cry: :cry:


gts
I've put DiscoCheck 4.1 64-bit in the CCRL public forum for you George. I hope that Lucas doesn't mind.
http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discuss ... p?id=28952

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:44 am
by lucasart
geots wrote:
lucasart wrote:
CositasBuenas wrote:Sorry, my mistake. But I see there are only 32 bit executables included.
I bet 32-bit is just as fast, if not faster for Toga. That's because it's based on Fruit, which doesn't use bitboards.


Crap on all that. I still can't find the DoubleCheck 4.1 you just released. I have looked everywhere, but I must be getting directed to the wrong page by some malicious malware!
:( :cry: :cry:

gts
Let's not spam Jerry's thread with that. Feel free to ask questions in the DiscoCheck thread intead, or PM me directly.

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:52 am
by Uri Blass
jd1 wrote:
lucasart wrote:
jd1 wrote:
jd1 wrote:Hi everyone!

This is this new release of Toga II 3.0, thanks to Jim Ablett for the compilation.

http://www.computerchess.info/tdbb/phpB ... hp?id=1402

Features:
- scores 64% against previous Toga versions at various time controls, so should be a decent strength improvement.
- Multi-PV fixed

For more details see readme.txt where a full list of changes may be found.

Hope you enjoy using Toga :)

Jerry
To clarify: it scored +100 elo (64%) against Toga II 2.02 in 6000 games, 2000 at 10' + 0.1" and 4000 at 1 min + 0.1 s / move. It also defeated Toga Returns 1.1 and Toga 1.4.1 SE by similar margins.
That's really impressive. Congratulations! I know that it's hard to gain 100 elo at this level. It's possible that the results are a little inflated by self-play, but still, even if it's only 80 elo in rating list conditions, it's a huge step forward :D
Thanks Lucas! Not as impressive as writing your own strong engine though :) Congratulations on Discocheck 4.1 too! I doubt it will be 80 elo though, because most of the gain is in a more efficient search - it gets 1 depth further on average. I think 1 extra iteration is worth more in self-play than against other engines. What do you think?
I think that we do not know what is most of the gain and I can clearly see evaluation changes in the readme(New Endgame Knowledge and Improved Mobility Evaluation and Piece Combo (QN vs QB) adjustment) .

I also think that 1 extra iteration means nothing because we do not know if it see more or less at equal depth(I am also not sure that you tested that it is 1 extra iteration at all time control and that there is no difference between a search of 1 second and a search of 1 minute).

LMR improved may mean that it prunes more lines so it is weaker at the same depth, but it also may mean that it stop to prune some important lines that earlier it pruned so it is stronger at the same depth.

Changes:
- Multi-PV fixed
- Aspiration windows
- Hash table used in quiescent search (for lookup as well as store)
- LMR improved (thanks to the authors of Stockfish and Protector)
- TT avoid null-move flag
- New Endgame Knowledge
- Improved Mobility Evaluation (Ben Tennison)
- Piece Combo (QN vs QB) adjustment

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:59 am
by geots
Graham Banks wrote:
geots wrote:
lucasart wrote:
CositasBuenas wrote:Sorry, my mistake. But I see there are only 32 bit executables included.
I bet 32-bit is just as fast, if not faster for Toga. That's because it's based on Fruit, which doesn't use bitboards.


Crap on all that. I still can't find the DoubleCheck 4.1 you just released. I have looked everywhere, but I must be getting directed to the wrong page by some malicious malware!
:( :cry: :cry:


gts
I've put DiscoCheck 4.1 64-bit in the CCRL public forum for you George. I hope that Lucas doesn't mind.
http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discuss ... p?id=28952



Graham, I really do appreciate you doing this for me and your sincerity. And I had never seen that particular logo before- which I really like and will definitely use. But.............., I do feel sorta bad about all this- but not for Lucas because he is too hard headed and won't help me.


Best,

gts

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:07 am
by geots
jd1 wrote:
lucasart wrote:
jd1 wrote:
jd1 wrote:Hi everyone!

This is this new release of Toga II 3.0, thanks to Jim Ablett for the compilation.

http://www.computerchess.info/tdbb/phpB ... hp?id=1402

Features:
- scores 64% against previous Toga versions at various time controls, so should be a decent strength improvement.
- Multi-PV fixed

For more details see readme.txt where a full list of changes may be found.

Hope you enjoy using Toga :)

Jerry
To clarify: it scored +100 elo (64%) against Toga II 2.02 in 6000 games, 2000 at 10' + 0.1" and 4000 at 1 min + 0.1 s / move. It also defeated Toga Returns 1.1 and Toga 1.4.1 SE by similar margins.
That's really impressive. Congratulations! I know that it's hard to gain 100 elo at this level. It's possible that the results are a little inflated by self-play, but still, even if it's only 80 elo in rating list conditions, it's a huge step forward :D
Thanks Lucas! Not as impressive as writing your own strong engine though :) Congratulations on Discocheck 4.1 too! I doubt it will be 80 elo though, because most of the gain is in a more efficient search - it gets 1 depth further on average. I think 1 extra iteration is worth more in self-play than against other engines. What do you think?



Wrong. The figures you mention are impressive any time- anywhere- in any engine. And to do it after so many others have gone over this engine with a fine tooth comb and a magnifying glass- to still find what you have- this ranks with the greatest achievements in recent memory around here. I am dead serious. I really look forward to testing this one!



All the best,

george

Re: Toga II 3.0 released

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:34 am
by jd1
geots wrote:
jd1 wrote:
lucasart wrote:
jd1 wrote:
jd1 wrote:Hi everyone!

This is this new release of Toga II 3.0, thanks to Jim Ablett for the compilation.

http://www.computerchess.info/tdbb/phpB ... hp?id=1402

Features:
- scores 64% against previous Toga versions at various time controls, so should be a decent strength improvement.
- Multi-PV fixed

For more details see readme.txt where a full list of changes may be found.

Hope you enjoy using Toga :)

Jerry
To clarify: it scored +100 elo (64%) against Toga II 2.02 in 6000 games, 2000 at 10' + 0.1" and 4000 at 1 min + 0.1 s / move. It also defeated Toga Returns 1.1 and Toga 1.4.1 SE by similar margins.
That's really impressive. Congratulations! I know that it's hard to gain 100 elo at this level. It's possible that the results are a little inflated by self-play, but still, even if it's only 80 elo in rating list conditions, it's a huge step forward :D
Thanks Lucas! Not as impressive as writing your own strong engine though :) Congratulations on Discocheck 4.1 too! I doubt it will be 80 elo though, because most of the gain is in a more efficient search - it gets 1 depth further on average. I think 1 extra iteration is worth more in self-play than against other engines. What do you think?



Wrong. The figures you mention are impressive any time- anywhere- in any engine. And to do it after so many others have gone over this engine with a fine tooth comb and a magnifying glass- to still find what you have- this ranks with the greatest achievements in recent memory around here. I am dead serious. I really look forward to testing this one!



All the best,

george
Thanks George! I hope it will do well for you :) Don't expect too much of it though, it's still a long way below the top ....