Help! They sold me Windows 8!

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw

User avatar
sje
Posts: 4675
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:43 pm

Linux hardware support

Post by sje »

Jesse Gersenson wrote:When I was transitioning away from windows, move was prompted by need for lower cpu usage to easily make my notebook silent, I stumbled over some trival hardware issues (modem, wireless, external bluetooth adapter, netbook's graphics card). I tallied these are mild loses and bough linux compatible replacements. Since then, when buying notebooks or peripherals I first check to see if they're compatible with my version of linux.
For years, notebook makers would use cheap "Winmodems". These modems would do little more than convert phone line voltage levels to voltages suitable for driving logic gates. All the real processing was dumped on the CPU. Fortunately, few people use modems today; I haven't used dial-up Internet in ten years.

For hardware, anything much more than a year old and in common use will have some kind of Linux support. But if the drivers are non-free, then that support may be a little shaky or not so simple to install. Example: I have a USB wireless adapter which I had used on a then non-wireless Macintosh. When I tried it on Linux, no luck at first. After a while I found a Linux firmware package which made the thing work, except that the adapter couldn't understand WPA2 authorization. I'll guess that this will be fixed soon.
User avatar
reflectionofpower
Posts: 1610
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:28 pm
Location: USA

Re: Help! They sold me Windows 8!

Post by reflectionofpower »

Classic Shell is freeware and it does the same stuff Start8 does which is not free. http://bit.ly/19ItDKU
User avatar
lucasart
Posts: 3232
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:29 pm
Full name: lucasart

Re: The Windows Tax

Post by lucasart »

sje wrote:
lucasart wrote:
Don wrote:The secret is to format the hard drive and install linux.
Indeed. But it's still frustrating to know that you paid the Windows tax, and there's no way to buy a laptop these days without paying the Windows tax. As for getting your Windows reimbursed by the manufacturer if you don't use it, tt's theoretically possible, but practically impossible (so costly in time and legal fees, no one does it).
I have seen web sites which will help you get a refund of the Windows Tax. But it's not easy and it's less easy if the machine has booted Windows past the initial End User Agreement acceptance dialog.

But not to worry. I haven't had to pay the Windows Tax for a long while. The secret is to buy your machine from either a specialty computer store or from a retailer who sells to the pro server market. Myself, I travel fifty kilometers to get to a small computer shop which will sell me anything from a notebook to a rack mount, none with Windows. I've saved hundreds of dollars over the years, far far more than any associated travel costs.
Now that I live in Hong Kong. it's much easier. There are some shope where you can get any computer assembled on the spot with whatever you want inside, at really competitive prices. I bought my desktop PC there recently, and I'm very happy with it.

I remember when they offered me to install Windows and a bunch of Microsoft crap on it for free. I refused of course, not becaus it's "piracy", but because I will never soil my hands again using these malwares...
Theory and practice sometimes clash. And when that happens, theory loses. Every single time.
User avatar
sje
Posts: 4675
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:43 pm

Re: The Windows Tax

Post by sje »

lucasart wrote:Now that I live in Hong Kong. it's much easier. There are some shope where you can get any computer assembled on the spot with whatever you want inside, at really competitive prices. I bought my desktop PC there recently, and I'm very happy with it.

I remember when they offered me to install Windows and a bunch of Microsoft crap on it for free. I refused of course, not becaus it's "piracy", but because I will never soil my hands again using these malwares...
Interestingly, the little specialty computer store I use will drop a server's price by ~US$150 if you skip the Windows installation. But they'll charge US$50 to install Linux. I guess they justify the cost by ensuring that all the hardware involved is fully supported by the best available Linux drivers.

I buy my hardware naked, of course. They have it custom built before I arrive with the specifications and price worked out via email. I test the machine before I leave the store by bringing in a Linux boot USB stick to see if the installation splash screen will appear.

The last time I did all this was about two years ago when I bought the 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7-2600 machine which then spent fourteen months doing the perft(13) calculation. The hardware worked perfectly, perhaps in part because I specified an over capacity power supply and a very heavy duty CPU heatsink and cooling fan. I saved some money by getting an inexpensive graphics card, quite suitable for a box which runs unattended 99% of the time.

The machine is currently occupied running MilkyWay@home, but maybe if I can get motivated I'll configure it to compete in the 2013 World Computer Rapid Chess Championship.
Tom Likens
Posts: 303
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 6:18 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Re: The Windows Tax

Post by Tom Likens »

sje wrote:
lucasart wrote:Now that I live in Hong Kong. it's much easier. There are some shope where you can get any computer assembled on the spot with whatever you want inside, at really competitive prices. I bought my desktop PC there recently, and I'm very happy with it.

I remember when they offered me to install Windows and a bunch of Microsoft crap on it for free. I refused of course, not becaus it's "piracy", but because I will never soil my hands again using these malwares...
Interestingly, the little specialty computer store I use will drop a server's price by ~US$150 if you skip the Windows installation. But they'll charge US$50 to install Linux. I guess they justify the cost by ensuring that all the hardware involved is fully supported by the best available Linux drivers.

I buy my hardware naked, of course. They have it custom built before I arrive with the specifications and price worked out via email. I test the machine before I leave the store by bringing in a Linux boot USB stick to see if the installation splash screen will appear.

The last time I did all this was about two years ago when I bought the 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7-2600 machine which then spent fourteen months doing the perft(13) calculation. The hardware worked perfectly, perhaps in part because I specified an over capacity power supply and a very heavy duty CPU heatsink and cooling fan. I saved some money by getting an inexpensive graphics card, quite suitable for a box which runs unattended 99% of the time.

The machine is currently occupied running MilkyWay@home, but maybe if I can get motivated I'll configure it to compete in the 2013 World Computer Rapid Chess Championship.
Steven,

Where's this store? I live in N.H. too and I'd like to take advantage of it.
bnemias
Posts: 373
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:21 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Help! They sold me Windows 8!

Post by bnemias »

Didn't you know it came with windows 8 when you bought it? If you were unhappy with it, I'd say take it back and make it someone else's problem.

Or, image the drive and instal some other OS. If you like windows, XP or win7 should work. Even GNU/linux is a reasonable choice for some.

I saw a couple of posts indicating 8.1 would make all better. You can dream I suppose, but don't hold your breath. When the "upgrade" reverts 6.2 back to 6.1 for all intents and purposes, then the sensible person simply avoids 6.2 completely. As an XP user, I recommend avoiding 6.x entirely. I'd still be using 5.0 instead of 5.1 if it did 64-bit.
User avatar
sje
Posts: 4675
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:43 pm

Re: The Windows Tax

Post by sje »

Tom Likens wrote:Where's this store? I live in N.H. too and I'd like to take advantage of it.
PM sent.

When I bought that machine, I should've spent some extra money populating its four SIMM slot mainboard with 8 GB SIMMs instead of 4 GB SIMMs, but I was being cheap. The case I selected is almost too big; I was afraid of thermal issues because of requirements of the long perft(13) run. The fact that the calculation ran nearly continuously from August 2011 to October 2012 using almost all of the 16 GB RAM and produced an error free result [perft(13) = 1,981,066,775,000,396,239] shows that the hardware was sound.

Before doing the perft(13) run, I ran some preliminary tests on the box including a twelve day perft(12) run. During that early attempt, I noticed a small, unmarked button on the front of the case. Well, of course I pushed it! How else was I to find out that it was there to do a machine hard reset?
User avatar
Master Om
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:57 am
Location: INDIA

Re: Help! They sold me Windows 8!

Post by Master Om »

Install Start 8
Always Expect the Unexpected
User avatar
Master Om
Posts: 450
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:57 am
Location: INDIA

Re: Help! They sold me Windows 8!

Post by Master Om »

Ponti wrote:Format HD.

Install Linux:

http://ultimateedition.info/

or

http://fedoraproject.org/

and

be happy ! :lol:
Most Chess programs dont run on linux. Windows better for the time being.
Always Expect the Unexpected
User avatar
Don
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:27 pm

Re: Help! They sold me Windows 8!

Post by Don »

Master Om wrote:
Ponti wrote:Format HD.

Install Linux:

http://ultimateedition.info/

or

http://fedoraproject.org/

and

be happy ! :lol:
Most Chess programs dont run on linux. Windows better for the time being.
Almost all chess program run well on Linux. With wine they run almost as if they were native. Wine is a windows emulator. Program under wine suffer no performance loss, which was a surprise to me.

Linux is actually a better platform for chess programs as they tend to perform a little bit better on linux - I think that is because more CPU registers are available to Linux programs.
Capital punishment would be more effective as a preventive measure if it were administered prior to the crime.