In support of the IvanHoe authors

[Izak Pretorius]

I think all these Ippolit (or Robbolito, or IvanHoe) clones are less and less relevant. Now that Stockfish is clearly ahead of *all* Ippolit derivatives (except Houdini), I am sure that lots of people are already at work trying to improve Stockfsh.

I predict a prolifaration of SF derivatives in the near future. Some will be GPL, and some disrespectful scumbags will make closed source derivatives and violate the GPL, as usual...

SF derivatives (or clones) are on the rise!

Have you ever before worked on IvanHoe code,may it be to use ideas,to compile it,or any other form?! Perhaps using some of it's ideas or code?

If yes,does this make you also a scumbag?

Do you think generalizing is the way to go?

Does this make Robert Houdart a scumbag too for working on Ippolit code in the past?

Are you calling me a scumbag?

Are you going to work on Stockfish code,or are you busy working on Stockfish code? Using some of it's ideas or code?

Is everyone now scumbags or just the people who are competition for you or the ones you dislike the most?

No further comments

[lucasart]

I think all these Ippolit (or Robbolito, or IvanHoe) clones are less and less relevant. Now that Stockfish is clearly ahead of *all* Ippolit derivatives (except Houdini), I am sure that lots of people are already at work trying to improve Stockfsh.

I predict a prolifaration of SF derivatives in the near future. Some will be GPL, and some disrespectful scumbags will make closed source derivatives and violate the GPL, as usual...

SF derivatives (or clones) are on the rise!

Have you ever before worked on IvanHoe code,may it be to use ideas,to compile it,or any other form?! Perhaps using some of it's ideas or code?

If yes,does this make you also a scumbag?

Do you think generalizing is the way to go?

Does this make Robert Houdart a scumbag too for working on Ippolit code in the past?

Are you calling me a scumbag?

Are you going to work on Stockfish code,or are you busy working on Stockfish code? Using some of it's ideas or code?

Is everyone now scumbags or just the people who are competition for you or the ones you dislike the most?

No further comments

All your questions are fascinating, but completely outside the point.

Read my post again: I was clearly refering to those who violate the GPL.

If someone releases a proprietary version of Stockfish (w/o permission of the authors), then that makes him a disrespectful scumbag in my book. Period.

And besides being immoral, it is also illegal.

As for your derivative of Ippolit, you can do what you want with it, since Ippolit is not GPL. And you can use ideas from anywhere you want, just not copy code from GPL protected sources.

[Izak Pretorius]

All your questions are fascinating, but completely outside the point.

Read my post again: I was clearly refering to those who violate the GPL.

If someone releases a proprietary version of Stockfish (w/o permission of the authors), then that makes him a disrespectful scumbag in my book. Period.

And besides being immoral, it is also illegal.

As for your derivative of Ippolit, you can do what you want with it, since Ippolit is not GPL. And you can use ideas from anywhere you want, just not copy code from GPL protected sources.

I agree fully.

[kranium]

Read my post again: I was clearly refering to those who violate the GPL.

it gets even more complicated with IvanHoe...
as parts of Chesslogik RobboLito GPL releases have have found there way into IvanHoe

for ex: off the top of my head, i remember time management function from Robbo 009 ...
Milos S. worked really hard on that, and it was a good improvement

time.c (12/31/2009) : 2nd half of search_initialization
found pretty much copied verbatim w/ minor changes as
ivanhoe control.c TimeManagerAlternative

[kranium]

PS-
i didn't post the above to stir up controversy...
and i can't speak for Sentinel, but personally i don't care

i noticed Milos (who is rarely here), has posted recently...perhaps he would care to comment

[Izak Pretorius]

PS-
i didn't post the above to stir up controversy...
and i can't speak for Sentinel, but personally i don't care

i noticed Milos (who is rarely here), has posted recently...perhaps he would care to comment

No worries.I am not stressed
This is not my concern,and never will be.
Time management is easy to change,if this really bugs you that much.For all you know it has already been changed ;)It will be hard to prove though who first put the code in,you or the decembrists.
You and Sentinel should take up this issue with the real authors of Ippolit and Ivanhoe and Robbolito.Roberto Pescatore etc etc,those guys.

I think it totally sucks though to get free the greatest free code in chess history up to recently,and then turn around,use that code and put a copyright on it.What is up with that?! Incredible really.Laughable actually.

Question again,which was first,the chicken or the egg?
In this case Ippolit

I also heard somewhere that someone claimed that the space evaluation of StockFish was identically copied into Houdini.Houdini is still running strong.This is the life we live it,i do not like it,but sometimes we must just accept which we cannot change or buy with money

Money seems to fix everything these days

Have a good one Norm

Best Regards
Peterpan

[kranium]

I think it totally sucks though to get free the greatest free code in chess history up to recently,and then turn around,use that code and put a copyright on it.What is up with that?! Incredible really.Laughable actually.

we did a ton of work
porting from raw unstable ippolit linux release to windows
much debugging: resolution of unhandled exception errors, etc;
the addition of pondering and ponderhit
optimization of the alignment of hash structures
different and improved bit scan functions
implementation of mersenne rand functions
new faster version of popcnt functions
cache prefetching
smooth scaling of null move
improved/corrected time management
better UCI GUI compatibility
CPU load
upper/lower bound printing
move on ponderhit
etc.
and of course, the translation from very difficult to read code to into common and easily understandable programming terms

the GPL license was the right thing to do, an effort to protect these additions/changes, and discourage abuse
if you didn't want these improvements, or didn't want to abide by the license...you could simply use the raw/unstable public domain version

but unlike you, everything we did with the code was shared with the community 'open source' and in good faith...

i think taking the greatest free code in chess history, changing the name, closing the source, modifying a little bit of code and a few parameters, and then compiling it with newest Intel optimizations
(to demonstrate an ELO increase), as you have done, is far worse...

and completely contrary to the goals and spirit of Ippolit
quite pathetic actually

[kranium]

and by the way Isaak:

IMO, you did a great disservice to IvanHoe by releasing (on an almost daily basis for years) hundreds (if not thousands) of compiles with none really any better than the rest, i hope you realize that...

i believe your method of learning how to compile, i.e. 'change a parameter' or 'try a new compiler option', then releasing your experiment to an enthusiastic Immortal public for testing,
badly damaged IvanHoe's acceptance as a serious engine, as most/all reputable testers were completely put-off by the confused and prolific mess of compiles (among which were many crappy ones)

well that's it for now, talk to you later

Norm

[kranium]

i'd like to give a real tip of the hat to George Speight for sorting out the aforementioned IvanHoe compile mess

when everyone was asking which one is best? what compile should I use?
he took the bull by the horns, logged into Immortal, and began methodically deciphering the obtuse naming convention, and testing it all in an effort to sort out what was what
(a huge undertaking), and he posted his results here...
and i'm pretty sure he took some serious flak

i truly believe his efforts were instrumental for the acceptance of Ivanhoe,
especially here

i really respect him for that

[Izak Pretorius]

and by the way Isaak:

IMO, you did a great disservice to IvanHoe by releasing (on an almost daily basis for years) hundreds (if not thousands) of compiles with none really any better than the rest, i hope you realize that...

i believe your method of learning how to compile, i.e. 'change a parameter' or 'try a new compiler option', then releasing your experiment to an enthusiastic Immortal public for testing,
badly damaged IvanHoe's acceptance as a serious engine, as most/all reputable testers were completely put-off by the confused and prolific mess of compiles (among which were many crappy ones)

well that's it for now, talk to you later

Norm

Thank you Norm.
I always knew you didn't like me,now i know it for sure.

I think you suffer from post traumatic Ippolit syndrome.

I will not communicate further with such nasty people as yourself,i don't want to drop down to your low back stabbing,green monster munching,cloner selling,morality levels.
Final tip for you,and you will be wise to listen,just be careful,the green monster will eat you alive if you feed it more.

Seriously,you are welcome to your opinions,but quite frankly i just simply don't care what you think.But honestly,i do not have any more time to communicate with you,you are simply wasting my time,time that could be well spent on developing PanChess.Which i will do now with more enthusiasm than ever before.Sometimes it's motivational speeches like yours that brings out the best in my creative works.

Besides,I though talking on this forum would be fun,but all i got here on Talkchess is blatant insults from you Norm.You are truly a nasty person.I am glad you made your posts official,now everyone one can see you for the person you really are

You can reply,i won't be coming here again,so keep talking to yourself if it makes you happy.

Best Regards
Izak (Peterpan)