HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

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lucasart
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by lucasart » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:26 am

Gerd Isenberg wrote:
mclane wrote:
Gerd Isenberg wrote:Disqualified!
Clone ?
No, Lucas is disqualified for his WCCC bashing, disrespectfulness, and complete incompetence. Who is Pandix? Who is Merlin?
Disqualified ? I never "qualified". I do not care about the ICGA, and I do not want to participate.

All I am saying is that this "world championship" has no relevance today. Perhaps it was relevant 10+ years ago, but not anymore.

And I am not the only one to have this opinion, as you can see!

Amongst top engine developpers:
* Robert Houdart said he has no interest in this kind of competition. He gave 3 arguments: time, money, relevance.
* Richard Vida has never manifested any interest in this competition
* Marco Costalba has already said what had to be said about the ICGA in a thread here a while ago. I simply cannot say it better:
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... light=icga

From the lack of participation, you can imagine that more people share my point of view than yours.

Food for thoughts...
Theory and practice sometimes clash. And when that happens, theory loses. Every single time.

Gerd Isenberg
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by Gerd Isenberg » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:39 am

lucasart wrote:
Gerd Isenberg wrote:
mclane wrote:
Gerd Isenberg wrote:Disqualified!
Clone ?
No, Lucas is disqualified for his WCCC bashing, disrespectfulness, and complete incompetence. Who is Pandix? Who is Merlin?
Disqualified ? I never "qualified". I do not care about the ICGA, and I do not want to participate.

All I am saying is that this "world championship" has no relevance today. Perhaps it was relevant 10+ years ago, but not anymore.

And I am not the only one to have this opinion, as you can see!

Amongst top engine developpers:
* Robert Houdart said he has no interest in this kind of competition. He gave 3 arguments: time, money, relevance.
* Richard Vida has never manifested any interest in this competition
* Marco Costalba has already said what had to be said about the ICGA in a thread here a while ago. I simply cannot say it better:
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... light=icga

From the lack of participation, you can imagine that more people share my point of view than yours.

Food for thoughts...
Your opinion is fine - it is much more comfortable to stay at home autoplaying rather than to join a social event with real people to have a competition over the board with its unique drama and living through the games. Please stop bashing the ICGA and their tournaments and to belittle other programs and their programmers.

Modern Times
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by Modern Times » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:11 am

lucasart wrote: Amongst top engine developpers:
* Robert Houdart said he has no interest in this kind of competition. He gave 3 arguments: time, money, relevance.
* Richard Vida has never manifested any interest in this competition
* Marco Costalba has already said what had to be said about the ICGA in a thread here a while ago. I simply cannot say it better:
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... light=icga

From the lack of participation, you can imagine that more people share my point of view than yours.

Food for thoughts...
Yes, Marco summed things up nicely.

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mclane
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by mclane » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:13 am

I See. Lucas Trolls Arround.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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mclane
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by mclane » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:15 am

Some People Prefer Talking with Computers instand of Talking with Human Beings.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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hgm
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by hgm » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:00 am

lucasart wrote:* Robert Houdart said he has no interest in this kind of competition. He gave 3 arguments: time, money, relevance.
Actually he sort of said he was not interested to participate in any event that was not prepared to rig the rules in such a way that it would be 100% certain in advance that Houdini would win. Everything that would improve the chances of others (e.g. opening books, strong hardware) should be absolutely forbidden, or it would not be 'of relevance'. (And of course there should not be too many strong others admitted as well, to not have the disadvantage of numbers. Preferably just Houdini, and one challenger. That would be a 'true World Championship') :lol: :lol: :lol:

Marco's posting strikes me a bit as that of a loser, who missed his chance of being there, and out of spite/envie tries to make that palatable to himself by dumping on the event, and people that were...

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lucasart
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by lucasart » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:11 am

hgm wrote:
lucasart wrote:* Robert Houdart said he has no interest in this kind of competition. He gave 3 arguments: time, money, relevance.
Actually he sort of said he was not interested to participate in any event that was not prepared to rig the rules in such a way that it would be 100% certain in advance that Houdini would win. Everything that would improve the chances of others (e.g. opening books, strong hardware) should be absolutely forbidden, or it would not be 'of relevance'. (And of course there should not be too many strong others admitted as well, to not have the disadvantage of numbers. Preferably just Houdini, and one challenger. That would be a 'true World Championship') :lol: :lol: :lol:
What he meant, and I 100% agree with him, is that:

* hardware competition is pointless. it should be a software competition, so everyone should run on the same hardware.

* opening books: same problem. it should not be a race of who uses the best opening book. opening positions should be given by the tournament and each game repeated twice with colors reversed, as done by any proper tournament (eg. TCEC).

* number of participants: what you don't want is to have one hundred different versions (or should I say compiles) of IvanHoe. I don't think he was against the multiplication of genuine engines. Anyway, given the lack of interest in this tournament, I don't think the nyumber of participants is a problem: only 6 participants, no pre-selection phase.

That's not rigging the rules. The rules are just silly, and he is right to disagree with them.
Theory and practice sometimes clash. And when that happens, theory loses. Every single time.

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geots
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by geots » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:19 am

Modern Times wrote:And for the second year running, it is meaningless.

The top engines were not there, and the number of games were tiny. There are lots of equal hardware ratings lists out there, with ALL the engines and hundreds of games per engine. Those are far more relevant.




+1,000,000,000........... Not quite sure enough zeroes exist for me to emphatically agree enough!


gts

Henk
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by Henk » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:45 am

lucasart wrote:
hgm wrote:
lucasart wrote:* Robert Houdart said he has no interest in this kind of competition. He gave 3 arguments: time, money, relevance.
Actually he sort of said he was not interested to participate in any event that was not prepared to rig the rules in such a way that it would be 100% certain in advance that Houdini would win. Everything that would improve the chances of others (e.g. opening books, strong hardware) should be absolutely forbidden, or it would not be 'of relevance'. (And of course there should not be too many strong others admitted as well, to not have the disadvantage of numbers. Preferably just Houdini, and one challenger. That would be a 'true World Championship') :lol: :lol: :lol:
What he meant, and I 100% agree with him, is that:

* hardware competition is pointless. it should be a software competition, so everyone should run on the same hardware.

* opening books: same problem. it should not be a race of who uses the best opening book. opening positions should be given by the tournament and each game repeated twice with colors reversed, as done by any proper tournament (eg. TCEC).

* number of participants: what you don't want is to have one hundred different versions (or should I say compiles) of IvanHoe. I don't think he was against the multiplication of genuine engines. Anyway, given the lack of interest in this tournament, I don't think the nyumber of participants is a problem: only 6 participants, no pre-selection phase.

That's not rigging the rules. The rules are just silly, and he is right to disagree with them.
If opening books are not allowed, endgame books should not be allowed too, etc. Where to draw the line. In my opinion any knowledge should be allowed. Data is knowledge too.

About the hardware. There might be programs running better or worse or not at all at certain hardware. And what about operating system. Should that be the same too.

Of course it's a pity if a chess program runs on inferior hardware for the owner cannot afford expensive hardware.

A Distel
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Re: HIARCS wins the World Chess Software Championship

Post by A Distel » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:15 am

Modern Times wrote:And for the second year running, it is meaningless.

The top engines were not there, and the number of games were tiny. There are lots of equal hardware ratings lists out there, with ALL the engines and hundreds of games per engine. Those are far more relevant.
The top engines? :lol: :wink: Surely you mean the Clones were not there....Rybka.. Houdini.. :wink:
The road to chaos is filled with political correctness.
― Tadros

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