FIDE World Chess Championship thread

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

And another thing. just say for example that these two Super Duper GM would draw for the remaining games in 16 moves or less. Then there goes the sponsor money moving over to that stupid redneck Nascar racing and who in the hell wants to watch that fat Tony Stewart go round and round for five hours? Or maybe the sponsors would move over to the UFC. Now who would want to watch George St. Pierre defeat an opponent with a flying armbar. so lets play the games out for entertainment, and satisfy the sponsors and fans.
kgburcham

Many here have orgasms over clone wars so what is wrong with a GM draw or 2?

This is the WCC event Harvey that we've been waiting for so long with extreme interest just to witness 2 humble draws most of which are home prepared lines and lack the slightest fighting spirit and calculated risk....

I am better off setting two 2500 Elo chess engines at home and watch them playing each other for all that matters than watching these so called super Grandmasters spoiling this event with there low quality chess games....
Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Sofia rules were in effect in this match last I checked.

Also, I can't say that I'm pleased with game 1 but I'm even less pleased with the whining of patzers. It's only the first game of the match and the first draw and you want to implement some idiotic system with penalties for mistakes and draws. Give me a freaking break.

+1. Well said.

Messi earned 57 millions only in sponsors last years, Tiger woods more than 60 millons, great numbers for Djokovic, Federer, Nadal, and many NBA players, list is very long.

This are the best chess players in world. Whats the problem about earning some good money in a 12 game match? They have to train, travel, pay helpers and seconds.

I see too many envy on comments.

Where do you see this too mnay envy

As a specialist I earn enough money to drive a decent car and afford a decent lifestyle....

We are annoyed by the quality of the first game,not by it's result....

To shuffle your queen like a drunk dancer before you even start the game is a shame for a world champion.....

Say whatever you want but it is what it is....
Dr.D

I didnt quote correct, maybe thats why you don't see envy.

We have some post asking to pay LESS if they draw, or writing they earn too much per game, as other commests. Stoopid as if you start saying the football (soccer for some of you) has to earn based on goals.

Is obvious kgburcham has some sort of problem with money, asking to engines be more expensive so only few (included him) can buy it, now telling how much has to earn top GM in a world championship.

Then the envy comes because some say top GM cant play as top computers, and this is respectful per se. And I beat on some of the ones writing such things can't play chess at all without computer assistance. There is the envy, towards those can play close to top computers.

WHo they think they are to say how much was to own this GM?

And income is related to business around event. Thats why NBA and football players earn more. In this WCC there is much attention, much more than before. And I do think they earn too little.

check this list: http://espn.go.com/golf/moneylist/_/year/2013
Fischer wouldn't play a WCC (today) for less than _____?

Kim is the snob kind of person if I can correctly evaluate his character from the few posts I've read here and there is nothing wrong with that....

Regarding his chess abilities,we can only speculate but again from all I've read here through the past years he's anything but a weak player....

The era of the super strong chess engines delivered the so called advanced chess where a strong hcess player combines his chess abilities with the silicon monstrous calculating power to enjoy his hobby to the max....

And yet again,there's nothing wrong to express your opinion related to the money that should be paid for the Grandmasters....

I do agree that they are way underrated financially wise compared to Lady Gaga or the actors of the Twilight Zone saga,but still....During a WCC they should produce some quality chess not this obsolete form of a chess game we are witnessing....
Cheers,
Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

I suspect that Anand's main strategy for this match is to drag Carlsen to the tiebreaks with faster time controls where he is obviously superior....

Just a crazy thought before I hit the hay regards,
Dr.D

Anands strategy is not to loose. If you do not play you do not loose
Indian sponsors are paying for that. It looks like Anand is expected to play.

Carlsen can make short draws win 1 or 2 games and say goodbye. Leaving with title and money.

An excellent point of view,a little bit ironic but still

Carlsen will strike....

He has everything to win and nothing to lose IMHO....
Dr.D

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

Did you know there is a rule for this match that they can not make a draw proposition before black move 30 ?

What can you do if they repeat the moves to infinity ? we would still be in first game right now...... or maybe with a gun pointed at Magnus or Anand asking them to play an inferior move ?

rgds

A heavy military boot attached to an electrical mechanism targeted at their back parts is ought to do the trick every time they even think to repeat their moves at the early stage of a game....

To make things even better,the boot can be attached to a DGT chess borad for a faster and precise response....
Dr.D

[IGarcia]

Kim is the snob kind of person if I can correctly evaluate his character from the few posts I've read here and there is nothing wrong with that....

Regarding his chess abilities,we can only speculate but again from all I've read here through the past years he's anything but a weak player....

The era of the super strong chess engines delivered the so called advanced chess where a strong hcess player combines his chess abilities with the silicon monstrous calculating power to enjoy his hobby to the max....

And yet again,there's nothing wrong to express your opinion related to the money that should be paid for the Grandmasters....

I do agree that they are way underrated financially wise compared to Lady Gaga or the actors of the Twilight Zone saga,but still....During a WCC they should produce some quality chess not this obsolete form of a chess game we are witnessing....
Cheers,
Dr.D

There is nothing wrong expressing opinion, and my opinion is there are many comments originated on envy. And there is much talk about money, using it for coercion.

I gess Fischer wold not play a WCC today for less than 6 millon, here is why: If you take the 1972 prize found of 250.000 us dollars, apply the CPI (x 5.6), double world population (x2), and double because new technology access/availability (2x), you end close to 6 million.

So my "opinion" they are playing for much less they deserve.

On the wcc draws, they will play best strategy to win. That includes draws as we seen in first 2 games.

To see super chess games we have nTCEC, to see real chess, including fear to blunder and many other human "imperfections" we have wcc and also other good tournaments with super GM.

Advanced chess is ridiculous. A weak player is just an operator.

[kgburcham]

Kim is the snob kind of person if I can correctly evaluate his character from the few posts I've read here and there is nothing wrong with that....

Regarding his chess abilities,we can only speculate but again from all I've read here through the past years he's anything but a weak player....

The era of the super strong chess engines delivered the so called advanced chess where a strong hcess player combines his chess abilities with the silicon monstrous calculating power to enjoy his hobby to the max....

And yet again,there's nothing wrong to express your opinion related to the money that should be paid for the Grandmasters....

I do agree that they are way underrated financially wise compared to Lady Gaga or the actors of the Twilight Zone saga,but still....During a WCC they should produce some quality chess not this obsolete form of a chess game we are witnessing....
Cheers,
Dr.D

There is nothing wrong expressing opinion, and my opinion is there are many comments originated on envy. And there is much talk about money, using it for coercion.

I gess Fischer wold not play a WCC today for less than 6 millon, here is why: If you take the 1972 prize found of 250.000 us dollars, apply the CPI (x 5.6), double world population (x2), and double because new technology access/availability (2x), you end close to 6 million.

So my "opinion" they are playing for much less they deserve.

On the wcc draws, they will play best strategy to win. That includes draws as we seen in first 2 games.

To see super chess games we have nTCEC, to see real chess, including fear to blunder and many other human "imperfections" we have wcc and also other good tournaments with super GM.
Advanced chess is ridiculous. A weak player is just an operator.

To see super chess games we have nTCEC, to see real chess, including fear to blunder and many other human "imperfections" we have wcc and also other good tournaments with super GM.

We agree, thanks for being honest.

Advanced chess is ridiculous. A weak player is just an operator.

Since you called me just an operator, I will play you five games Ignacio Garcia.
3 days per move.
I predict I will win three games and draw two games with no loses.
We will use standard chess rules.
If I beat you any games then you must apologize for calling me just an operator and from then on you must call me master operator. If I lose one game then I must sign in for a month as "just an operator."

don't be ridiculous, advanced chess is an art.
there is more to chess than just OTB with a beer.
kgburcham

[Ajedrecista]

Hello again:

Hello Kai:

Betters seem very rational, with only small changes: 74%/26% for Carlsen.
Simulations give 76%/24% for Carlsen.

Little change, a small decrease for Carlsen, betters give now 72%/28%.
Simulations give 74%/26% for Carlsen.

I modified a little my WCC simulator including white advantage (I hardcoded the value of 40 Elo) and a draw model D = 2.8*µ*(1 - µ), where µ is the expected score based in the Elo difference (that is, I suppose 70% of draws for two opponents of equal strength). Knowing that the first two games were draws, I more less obtain 74% - 26% if I assume a rating difference of 47 Elo and I give 30% of chances to Carlsen if the classical games end in a tie:

Code: Select all

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

            1000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:               687579
Anand wins:                 138019
Drawn matches:              174402

Approximated elapsed time:    6.35 seconds.

68.6579% + 0.3*17.4402% = 73.98996% ~ 73.99% after 1e+6 simulations.

If I maintain the parameters of 47 Elo of supposed rating difference and 40 Elo of white advantage, knowing that the first three games ended in a draw:

Code: Select all

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

            1000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:               640812
Anand wins:                 160002
Drawn matches:              199186

Approximated elapsed time:    5.79 seconds.

Then, supposing again 30% of chances for Carlsen in a tied match: 64.0812% + 0.3*19.9186% = 70.05678% ~ 70.06% after 1e+6 simulations. This clumsy simulation with improvised parameters gives around 4% more chances for Anand now, after one more game (from the second game finished to the third game finished).

------------

Varying the number of simulations, just for fun:

Code: Select all

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

              10000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:                 6436
Anand wins:                   1573
Drawn matches:                1991

Approximated elapsed time:    0.06 seconds.

-------------------------------------------

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

             100000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:                63906
Anand wins:                  16014
Drawn matches:               20080

Approximated elapsed time:    0.59 seconds.

-------------------------------------------

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

            1000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:               640812
Anand wins:                 160002
Drawn matches:              199186

Approximated elapsed time:    5.79 seconds.

-------------------------------------------

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

           10000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:              6408058
Anand wins:                1599806
Drawn matches:             1992136

Approximated elapsed time:   58.05 seconds.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

[Laskos]

Hello again:

Hello Kai:

Betters seem very rational, with only small changes: 74%/26% for Carlsen.
Simulations give 76%/24% for Carlsen.

Little change, a small decrease for Carlsen, betters give now 72%/28%.
Simulations give 74%/26% for Carlsen.

I modified a little my WCC simulator including white advantage (I hardcoded the value of 40 Elo) and a draw model D = 2.8*µ*(1 - µ), where µ is the expected score based in the Elo difference (that is, I suppose 70% of draws for two opponents of equal strength). Knowing that the first two games were draws, I more less obtain 74% - 26% if I assume a rating difference of 47 Elo and I give 30% of chances to Carlsen if the classical games end in a tie:

Code: Select all

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

            1000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:               687579
Anand wins:                 138019
Drawn matches:              174402

Approximated elapsed time:    6.35 seconds.

68.6579% + 0.3*17.4402% = 73.98996% ~ 73.99% after 1e+6 simulations.

If I maintain the parameters of 47 Elo of supposed rating difference and 40 Elo of white advantage, knowing that the first three games ended in a draw:

Code: Select all

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

            1000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:               640812
Anand wins:                 160002
Drawn matches:              199186

Approximated elapsed time:    5.79 seconds.

Then, supposing again 30% of chances for Carlsen in a tied match: 64.0812% + 0.3*19.9186% = 70.05678% ~ 70.06% after 1e+6 simulations. This clumsy simulation with improvised parameters gives around 4% more chances for Anand now, after one more game (from the second game finished to the third game finished).

------------

Varying the number of simulations, just for fun:

Code: Select all

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

              10000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:                 6436
Anand wins:                   1573
Drawn matches:                1991

Approximated elapsed time:    0.06 seconds.

-------------------------------------------

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

             100000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:                63906
Anand wins:                  16014
Drawn matches:               20080

Approximated elapsed time:    0.59 seconds.

-------------------------------------------

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

            1000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:               640812
Anand wins:                 160002
Drawn matches:              199186

Approximated elapsed time:    5.79 seconds.

-------------------------------------------

White advantage:              40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference:   47.0 Elo.

           10000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins:              6408058
Anand wins:                1599806
Drawn matches:             1992136

Approximated elapsed time:   58.05 seconds.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

I also get 70%/30% with similar parameters. Betters give 71%/29%, very close to these simulations.

[Ozymandias]

they are playing for much less they deserve.

To see super chess games we have nTCEC, to see real chess, including fear to blunder and many other human "imperfections" we have wcc and also other good tournaments with super GM.

Advanced chess is ridiculous. A weak player is just an operator.

Fischer fought OTB and outside of it for better prizes, so he played for what he "deserved". If Carlsen or Anand play for less maybe they have settled for it or they actually think that's what they "deserve".

About the other thing, well I'm a weak player but I won't challenge you to show you what an operator can really do, I don't play Freestyle for free because I "deserve" to get paid.

[IGarcia]

-------------------------------------------

White advantage: 40.0 Elo.
Supposed rating difference: 47.0 Elo.

10000000 simulations:

Carlsen wins: 6408058
Anand wins: 1599806
Drawn matches: 1992136

Approximated elapsed time: 58.05 seconds.[/code]

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

I also get 70%/30% with similar parameters. Betters give 71%/29%, very close to these simulations.

Well, after todays game, my opinion is chances are even. The difference in rating in Carlsen favor is very well compensated with Anand match experience.


@kgburcham: Thanks for offer. I, as a weak player, and just an engine operator, have no time available to play 3 day/move chess. And I can confirm you will win 5 out 5 games.

Such time control give the operator, having the hardware and software, the possibility to play on many variations to determine best move using statistical results. Its like a super-operator!

regards.