very hard test position for stockfish from my game

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Uri Blass
Posts: 10314
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by Uri Blass »

I played yesterday in a tournament in OTB game and got the following position

[D]rr4k1/2p2pp1/2Pp4/2nPp1qp/2N1P3/P1Bn1PP1/R1Q4P/5R1K w - - 2 26

stockfish suggests the move 26.Rd1
The right move is probably 26.Ba5 as houdini3 suggests.

Stockfish has big problems to find moves 27 and 28 for black in the following line and it needs a long time for it(at least in move 27)
26.Rd1 Ra4 27.Ba5 h4! 28.Bxc7 Rxc4! 29.Qxc4 Qe3!
bnculp
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:19 pm

Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by bnculp »

I have also noticed the same behavior when using the latest version of Stockfish 151210. I do not see as much the problems you noticed if I fall back to the prior version which was 101213.
bnculp
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:19 pm

Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by bnculp »

edit latest version is 151213 not 151210 sorry
bnst
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:16 pm

Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by bnst »

It may seem that it is a null-move related problem. It is the move 28... Rxc4 which Stockfish doesn't find and which cause it to not find 27... h4 and so it does not see that Rd1 is not so good a move after all.
Andreas
bnst
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:16 pm

Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by bnst »

The 28... Rxc4 move gives black a draw by perpetual, so the problem might be in the perp detection.
I tested this with Critter 1.6a which has no problem finding the h4 and Rxc4 moves.
Andreas
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Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4567
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
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Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by Eelco de Groot »

This isn't very good but Scid Serpent based on the latest Stockfish master will play Ba5 after 33 minutes on a Quad 6700.


rr4k1/2p2pp1/2Pp4/2nPp1qp/2N1P3/P1Bn1PP1/R1Q4P/5R1K w - -

Engine: Scid Serpent 20131219_002 MP (Q6700, 4 threads, 512 MB)
Latest change: new formula for determining R in Null move
by Tord Romstad, Marco Costalba and Joona Kiiski

19/30 0:01 +2.10 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Qf6 3.Kg2 Rxc4
4.Qxc4 Nb2 5.Qe2 Nxd1 6.Qxd1 Qd8
7.Bb4 Na6 8.Bd2 Nc5 9.a4 h4 10.a5 hxg3
11.hxg3 Ra8 12.Rb2 (1.605.074) 1378

20/31 0:01 +1.89 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Ra8 3.Rxd3 R4xa5
4.Nxa5 Nxd3 5.Qxd3 Rxa5 6.Kg2 g6
7.Qc3 Ra4 8.Qb3 Ra8 9.a4 Kg7 10.Qb7 Qd8
11.Qb4 Rb8 12.Qc3 f5 13.a5 fxe4
14.fxe4 (3.417.319) 1764

21/35 0:02 +1.97 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Ra8 3.Rxd3 R4xa5
4.Nxa5 Nxd3 5.Qxd3 Rxa5 6.Kg2 g6
7.Qc3 Ra4 8.Qb3 Ra8 9.a4 Kg7 10.Qb7 Qd8
11.Qb4 Rb8 12.Qc3 f5 13.a5 fxe4
14.fxe4 (4.393.998) 1889

22/35 0:02 +1.97 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Ra8 3.Rxd3 R4xa5
4.Nxa5 Nxd3 5.Qxd3 Rxa5 6.Kg2 Qd8
7.a4 g6 8.Qb3 Qa8 9.Qb7 Qd8 10.Qb4 Qa8
11.f4 exf4 12.gxf4 f5 13.Ra1 fxe4
14.Qxe4 (5.611.864) 1991

.
.
.
.

33/54 4:47 +2.30 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Ra8 3.Bxc7 Nb4 4.Qe2 Nxa2
5.Qxa2 Nxe4 6.fxe4 Qg4 7.Re1 Qf3+
8.Qg2 Qxg2+ 9.Kxg2 Rxc4 10.Bxd6 f6
11.Rb1 Rc2+ 12.Kf3 Rd8 13.Bb4 Ra8
14.Ke3 (750.529.593) 2608

34/54 5:40 +2.22-- 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Rxc4 3.Qxc4 Qe3
4.Rf1 Nb3 5.Bc3 g5 6.a4 g4 7.fxg4 hxg4
8.Rg2 Nd4 9.Ba5 Qxe4 10.Bxc7 Rb2 (889.600.317) 2614

34/54 5:51 +2.14-- 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Rxc4 3.Qxc4 Qe3
4.Rf1 Nb3 5.Bxc7 (918.050.685) 2611

34/54 6:03 +2.02-- 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Rxc4 3.Qxc4 Qe3
4.Rf1 Nb3 5.Bxc7 Nd2 6.Rxd2 Qxd2
7.Bxb8 Qe2 8.Qxd3 Qxd3 9.Kg2 Qxa3
10.c7 Qc5 11.Rb1 Qc2+ 12.Kh3 g5
13.g4 hxg4+ 14.Kxg4 (948.371.645) 2610

34/54 6:20 +1.83-- 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Rxc4 3.Qxc4 Qe3
4.Kg2 Rb2+ 5.Rxb2 Nxb2 6.Qc2 Nxd1
7.Qxd1 Nd3 8.Bxc7 Ne1+ 9.Kh3 Nxf3
10.Bd8 Qxe4 11.c7 Qf5+ 12.Kg2 Nd4
13.a4 (993.272.331) 2609

34/54 6:56 +1.91 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Rxc4 3.Qxc4 Qe3
4.Rf1 Nb3 5.Bc3 g5 6.Rg2 g4 7.f4 exf4
8.gxf4 Nbc5 9.Bd2 Qxe4 10.Qxe4 Nxe4
11.Ba5 Rc8 12.f5 Kg7 13.Re2 Nf6
14.Bc3 (1.088.421.389) 2611

35/54 7:35 +1.83-- 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Rxc4 3.Qxc4 Qe3
4.Rf1 Nb3 5.Bc3 g5 6.Rg2 g4 7.f4 exf4
8.gxf4 Nbc5 9.Bd2 Qxe4 (1.190.988.409) 2613

35/54 8:13 +2.00++ 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Rxc4 3.Qxc4 (1.294.529.417) 2621

35/54 9:16 +1.75-- 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 Rxc4 3.Qxc4 Qe3
4.Rf1 Nb3 5.Bxc7 (1.460.572.956) 2625

35/54 11:37 +1.57-- 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 h4 (1.841.400.068) 2638

35/54 14:33 +1.30-- 1.Rd1 Ra4 2.Ba5 h4 3.Bxc7 Rxc4
4.Qxc4 Qe3 5.Rf1 Rb1 6.Rxb1 Qxf3+
7.Kg1 Qe3+ (2.304.722.068) 2639


35/69 33:08 +1.25 1.Ba5 Qd8 2.Kg2 Rb3 3.Rb1 Rxb1
4.Qxb1 Rb8 5.Bb4 Rb5 6.Rd2 Nxb4
7.axb4 Qb8 8.Qc2 Rxb4 9.Nxe5 Nb3
10.Nd7 Qb5 11.Rf2 Nd4 12.Qc1 f6
13.Qa1 Ra4 14.Qd1 (5.328.584.720) 2679

36/69 34:18 +1.25 1.Ba5 Qd8 2.Kg2 Rb3 3.Rb1 Rxb1
4.Qxb1 Rb8 5.Bb4 Rb5 6.Rd2 Nxb4
7.axb4 Qb8 8.Qc2 Rxb4 9.Nxe5 Nb3
10.Nd7 Qb5 11.Rf2 Nd4 12.Qc1 f6
13.Qa1 Ra4 14.Qd1 (5.519.767.585) 2681


best move: Bc3-a5 time: 34:19.525 min n/s: 2.681.028 nodes: 5.519.767.585
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
gladius
Posts: 568
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:10 am
Full name: Gary Linscott

Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by gladius »

Uri Blass wrote:I played yesterday in a tournament in OTB game and got the following position

[D]rr4k1/2p2pp1/2Pp4/2nPp1qp/2N1P3/P1Bn1PP1/R1Q4P/5R1K w - - 2 26

stockfish suggests the move 26.Rd1
The right move is probably 26.Ba5 as houdini3 suggests.

Stockfish has big problems to find moves 27 and 28 for black in the following line and it needs a long time for it(at least in move 27)
26.Rd1 Ra4 27.Ba5 h4! 28.Bxc7 Rxc4! 29.Qxc4 Qe3!
Very interesting position!

SF needs until depth 17 to spot problems, even from here:
[D]6k1/2B2pp1/2Pp4/2nPp3/2Q1P2p/P2n1qP1/R6P/1R4K1 b - - 1 1

It just doesn't seem to see the perpetual due to the big material advantage for white, perhaps a null move issue. Good opportunity for improvement hopefully!
A Distel
Posts: 3618
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by A Distel »

bnculp wrote:edit latest version is 151213 not 151210 sorry
http://abrok.eu/stockfish/
The road to chaos is filled with political correctness.
― Tadros
MrEdCollins
Posts: 59
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 12:12 am
Location: Southern California

Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by MrEdCollins »

Thank you for posting this position.

Stockfish DD does find and prefer 26.Ba5... but yes, it takes a long time to get away from 26.Rd1.

39 [+1.01] 26.Ba5 Qd8 27.Kg2 Rb3 28.Bc3 Ra4 29.Nb2 Nxb2 30.Rxb2 Rxb2 31.Bxb2 f6 32.Rb1 Qa8 33.Qe2 Qa6 34.Qxa6 Nxa6 35.Kf2 Kf7 36.Ke3 Rc4 37.Rc1 Ra4 38.h3 g6 39.g4 Nc5 40.Ke2 Ra8 41.Rc4 Ke7 (20312.91)

40 [+1.01] 26.Ba5 Qd8 27.Kg2 Rb3 28.Bc3 Ra4 29.Nb2 Nxb2 30.Rxb2 Rxb2 31.Bxb2 f6 32.Rb1 Qa8 33.Qe2 Qa6 34.Qxa6 Nxa6 35.Kf2 Kf7 36.Ke3 Rc4 37.Rc1 Ra4 38.h3 g6 39.g4 Nc5 40.Ke2 Ra8 41.Rc4 (22554.41)

41 [+1.09] 26.Ba5 Qd8 27.Qe2 Rb3 28.Rd1 Qb8 29.Rad2 Qb5 30.Bxc7 Qxc4 31.Bxd6 (24557.38)

41 [+0.92] 26.Ba5 Qd8 27.Qe2 Rb3 (30920.89)
peter
Posts: 3187
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: very hard test position for stockfish from my game

Post by peter »

Hi Eelco!

Sorry for MP (12cores) but didn't want to wait so long:

rr4k1/2p2pp1/2Pp4/2nPp1qp/2N1P3/P1Bn1PP1/R1Q4P/5R1K w - - 0 1

Analysis by Stockfish 061213 64 SSE4.2:

26.Td1 Ta4 27.La5 Txa5 28.Sxa5 De3 29.De2
+- (2.10) Tiefe: 7/7 00:00:00 8kN
...
26.Td1 Ta4 27.La5 h4 28.Lxc7 Txc4 29.Dxc4 De3 30.Tf1 Tb1 31.Txb1 Dxf3+ 32.Kg1 De3+ 33.Kg2 h3+ 34.Kxh3 Df3 35.Tb8+ Kh7 36.Th8+ Kxh8 37.Lxd6 Sf4+
+/- (1.07 --) Tiefe: 36/57 00:03:57 3162MN

26.La5 Dd8 27.Kg2 Tb3 28.Tb1 Txb1 29.Dxb1 Tb8 30.Lb4 Tb5 31.Td2 Sxb4 32.axb4 Db8 33.Dc2 Txb4 34.Sxe5 Sb3 35.Sd7 Db5 36.Tf2 Sd4 37.Dd2 f6 38.Dd1 Da4 39.Dxa4 Txa4 40.f4 Ta3 41.Td2 Sf3 42.Tb2 Se1+ 43.Kf1 Sf3 44.Tb7
+/- (1.19) Tiefe: 36/61 00:09:06 7790MN

26.La5 Dd8 27.Kg2 Tb3 28.Tb1 Txb1 29.Dxb1 Tb8 30.Lb4 Tb5 31.Td2 Sxb4 32.axb4 Db8 33.Dc2 Txb4 34.Sxe5 Sb3 35.Sd7 Db5 36.Tf2
+/- (1.11 --) Tiefe: 37/61 00:09:30 8138MN
26.La5 Ta7 27.Ld2 Df6 28.Sb2 Txb2 29.Txb2 Sxb2 30.Dxb2
+/- (1.27 ++) Tiefe: 37/61 00:10:06 8649MN



rr4k1/2p2pp1/2Pp4/2nPp1qp/2N1P3/P1Bn1PP1/R1Q4P/5R1K w - - 0 1

Analysis by Sting SF 4 pop64:

26.Td1
+- (1.89 --) Tiefe: 7 00:00:04 6kN
...
26.Td1
+/- (1.40 --) Tiefe: 28 00:01:06 713MN

26.La5 Ta7 27.Lxc7 Txc7 28.Sxd6 Df6 29.Sc4 Tcc8 30.Sb2 Sxb2 31.Dxc5 Sa4 32.Dc4 Sb6 33.Da6 Sa8 34.Tb2 Sc7 35.Txb8 Txb8 36.Da7 Dd8 37.a4 Tb2 38.a5 Dd6 39.Tf2 Txf2 40.Dxf2 Kf8 41.Kg2 Ke7 42.De3 f6
+/- (1.53) Tiefe: 28/47 00:02:02 1387MN
...
26.La5 Dd8 27.Td1 Tb3 28.De2 h4 29.Tad2 hxg3 30.hxg3 Dg5 31.Txd3 Sxd3 32.Txd3 Txd3 33.Dxd3 Dxg3
+/- (1.25) Tiefe: 32/58 00:08:15 6046MN
26.La5
+/- (1.13 --) Tiefe: 33 00:11:06 8269MN

BTW Merry X-Mas to you and everybody
:!:
Peter.