Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

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ThomasJMiller
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:22 am

Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by ThomasJMiller » Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:39 pm

mclane wrote:and hiarcs is not as weak as some people here suggest.
Nobody says it's weak. It's only 250-270 points weaker than current strongest engines. (CEGT 40/4 - CEGT 40/120).

Richard Allbert
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:58 am

Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by Richard Allbert » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:04 pm

lucasart wrote: Anyone with a half-brain knows that this World Championship from ICGA is a joke. But if we consider the public at large, those who know that fact, are a relatively tiny minority. The majority is ignorant and gullible.
:roll:

Your elitism hits new highs.

You are simply the best.

mar
Posts: 2013
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:00 pm
Location: Czech Republic
Full name: Martin Sedlak

Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by mar » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:46 pm

Richard Allbert wrote:
lucasart wrote: Anyone with a half-brain knows that this World Championship from ICGA is a joke. But if we consider the public at large, those who know that fact, are a relatively tiny minority. The majority is ignorant and gullible.
:roll:

Your elitism hits new highs.

You are simply the best.
Just Lucas' usual rhetorical practise :)
For some guys (on ego trip) here insulting means something like saying hello or even thanks.
In fact, arrogance usually only hides something else ;)
I have never seen more poisonous trolling in any other fora as far as I can remember. TalkChess is really extreme in this regard.
This is one of the main reasons why I don't wan't to be part of this anymore,
my tolerance to certain people dropped to zero.

IGarcia
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:27 pm

Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by IGarcia » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:55 pm

Martin Thoresen wrote:
carldaman wrote: At the same time, please pardon my ignorance, but do you actually need the programmer's permission to have an engine participate in your competition? On what basis?

(I'm assuming you do own Hiarcs 14)

Regards,
CL
Hi Carl,

As stated in my original post, Mark sent me a H14 license for free so Hiarcs could join the previous TCEC editions. That is why I respect Mark's decision.

If I had bought the program myself I do not believe that anyone can tell me what to do with it.

Best,
Martin
From the time you announced i was asking myself why not to buy the engine and use it anyway. The H14 participation probably is good for your tournament.

On the other side, I understand you already are spending a lot in time, coding, hardware and promoting so is easy to understand ... why to spend €46.95 for an engine that maybe probably not classify to last stages and almost sure will not play the final?


So the solution can be if someone can donate H14 to you. Something you probably like but you will not ask.

I don't have any license to donate and cant buy it because is too much for me, on top of that my government charges me with a 35% tax and have to ask authorization (only 2 buys a year) so ... is too complicated.

I have donated some to your previous Tcec, and wish to help on this, at least asking to the community to a hero can donate H14. (Why not the programmer itself?)

If not... we can have Tcec without Hiarcs. And I think is worst propaganda to not be part than to not win.

Regards, Ignacio

zullil
Posts: 5683
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:31 pm
Location: PA USA
Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by zullil » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:28 pm

Martin Thoresen wrote:
carldaman wrote: At the same time, please pardon my ignorance, but do you actually need the programmer's permission to have an engine participate in your competition? On what basis?

(I'm assuming you do own Hiarcs 14)

Regards,
CL
Hi Carl,

As stated in my original post, Mark sent me a H14 license for free so Hiarcs could join the previous TCEC editions. That is why I respect Mark's decision.

If I had bought the program myself I do not believe that anyone can tell me what to do with it.

Best,
Martin
Decent of you to respect the wishes of the engine's author. Seems like a good policy in general.

Martin Thoresen
Posts: 1833
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:07 pm

Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by Martin Thoresen » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:36 pm

IGarcia wrote: From the time you announced i was asking myself why not to buy the engine and use it anyway. The H14 participation probably is good for your tournament.

On the other side, I understand you already are spending a lot in time, coding, hardware and promoting so is easy to understand ... why to spend €46.95 for an engine that maybe probably not classify to last stages and almost sure will not play the final?


So the solution can be if someone can donate H14 to you. Something you probably like but you will not ask.

I don't have any license to donate and cant buy it because is too much for me, on top of that my government charges me with a 35% tax and have to ask authorization (only 2 buys a year) so ... is too complicated.

I have donated some to your previous Tcec, and wish to help on this, at least asking to the community to a hero can donate H14. (Why not the programmer itself?)

If not... we can have Tcec without Hiarcs. And I think is worst propaganda to not be part than to not win.

Regards, Ignacio
Hi Ignacio,
Well if it was "only" €46,95 then I'd consider buying it now, but alas the MP version is in fact €83,95. At least according to the Hiarcs homepage. And to be frank, I think this is too expensive at this point.

Please do not donate anything now solely for the purpose to get H14 in TCEC, because it has already been removed from the group it was supposed to play and I have already acknowledged that it will not play.

Hiarcs fans will not see H14 in this Season, so what I suggest them to do is to contact Hiarcs (Mark) via the hiarcs homepage and tell him about the disappointment in this.

What Mark did tell me though was that he was instead looking at the Season after this one (autumn). So I am not sure this withdrawal means we will never see Hiarcs in TCEC again. In worst case, I will buy it for the next Season.

Best,
Martin

IGarcia
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:27 pm

Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by IGarcia » Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:53 pm

Martin Thoresen wrote:
IGarcia wrote: From the time you announced i was asking myself why not to buy the engine and use it anyway. The H14 participation probably is good for your tournament.

On the other side, I understand you already are spending a lot in time, coding, hardware and promoting so is easy to understand ... why to spend €46.95 for an engine that maybe probably not classify to last stages and almost sure will not play the final?


So the solution can be if someone can donate H14 to you. Something you probably like but you will not ask.

I don't have any license to donate and cant buy it because is too much for me, on top of that my government charges me with a 35% tax and have to ask authorization (only 2 buys a year) so ... is too complicated.

I have donated some to your previous Tcec, and wish to help on this, at least asking to the community to a hero can donate H14. (Why not the programmer itself?)

If not... we can have Tcec without Hiarcs. And I think is worst propaganda to not be part than to not win.

Regards, Ignacio
Hi Ignacio,
Well if it was "only" €46,95 then I'd consider buying it now, but alas the MP version is in fact €83,95. At least according to the Hiarcs homepage. And to be frank, I think this is too expensive at this point.

Please do not donate anything now solely for the purpose to get H14 in TCEC, because it has already been removed from the group it was supposed to play and I have already acknowledged that it will not play.

Hiarcs fans will not see H14 in this Season, so what I suggest them to do is to contact Hiarcs (Mark) via the hiarcs homepage and tell him about the disappointment in this.

What Mark did tell me though was that he was instead looking at the Season after this one (autumn). So I am not sure this withdrawal means we will never see Hiarcs in TCEC again. In worst case, I will buy it for the next Season.

Best,
Martin
Ok, you right and is too late.

I do agree Mark has more to loose than to win. He has not to be afraid on the result because H14 is still a very good engine and many people appreciate this. And yes, maybe he is working on a new version for next Tcec.

Off topic:

€83,95 ?? I can buy here 250 liters of sunflower oil with that money. Thats all the oil we consume in 4+ years, a 4 person family.

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Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9635
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:49 pm

IGarcia wrote:
Martin Thoresen wrote:
IGarcia wrote: From the time you announced i was asking myself why not to buy the engine and use it anyway. The H14 participation probably is good for your tournament.

On the other side, I understand you already are spending a lot in time, coding, hardware and promoting so is easy to understand ... why to spend €46.95 for an engine that maybe probably not classify to last stages and almost sure will not play the final?


So the solution can be if someone can donate H14 to you. Something you probably like but you will not ask.

I don't have any license to donate and cant buy it because is too much for me, on top of that my government charges me with a 35% tax and have to ask authorization (only 2 buys a year) so ... is too complicated.

I have donated some to your previous Tcec, and wish to help on this, at least asking to the community to a hero can donate H14. (Why not the programmer itself?)

If not... we can have Tcec without Hiarcs. And I think is worst propaganda to not be part than to not win.

Regards, Ignacio
Hi Ignacio,
Well if it was "only" €46,95 then I'd consider buying it now, but alas the MP version is in fact €83,95. At least according to the Hiarcs homepage. And to be frank, I think this is too expensive at this point.

Please do not donate anything now solely for the purpose to get H14 in TCEC, because it has already been removed from the group it was supposed to play and I have already acknowledged that it will not play.

Hiarcs fans will not see H14 in this Season, so what I suggest them to do is to contact Hiarcs (Mark) via the hiarcs homepage and tell him about the disappointment in this.

What Mark did tell me though was that he was instead looking at the Season after this one (autumn). So I am not sure this withdrawal means we will never see Hiarcs in TCEC again. In worst case, I will buy it for the next Season.

Best,
Martin
Ok, you right and is too late.

I do agree Mark has more to loose than to win. He has not to be afraid on the result because H14 is still a very good engine and many people appreciate this. And yes, maybe he is working on a new version for next Tcec.

Off topic:

€83,95 ?? I can buy here 250 liters of sunflower oil with that money. Thats all the oil we consume in 4+ years, a 4 person family.
Wow,can you arrange me to move to your country me and my family please :!: :?:

We are 4 people family by the way....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

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Kirk
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Re: Hiarcs withdraws from TCEC Season 6

Post by Kirk » Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:02 pm

ThomasJMiller wrote:
Kirk wrote:I would not be surprised to see classic engines come out in two versions in the future. In their original form for unique play and an engine tournament version which includes Rybka/IPPOLIT additions made to it.

The classic will still be used for the purest/chess lover and the modified one that does better in engine tournaments for everyone else
Sorry but I don't understand your post.

Do you think that Komodo, Stockfish, etc are not original?
From your post, it seems that each engine stronger than Hiarcs can't be original. Are you serious? And by the way, from what I've read, in Ippolit/Rybka there was nothing revolutionary.

Besides, who has set Hiarcs as a benchmark for originality? Have you ever seen its sources in +20 years? Age doesn't matter: even Pandix is a very old engine, 20+ as well, and we all knows DF14's similarity results.

Maybe Hiarcs has reached some kind of limit or maybe next version will be 200 points stronger, who knows, but this doesn't mean that from now on every engine stronger than Hiarcs must be considered not original only because its programmer can't improve it.

If HIARCS is not playing it's not because of Ippo engines (they played in previous TCEC editions as well), it's because TCEC is gaining more and more popularity worldwide, it's seen by people as the real World Championship, and they don't want the world to see Hiarcs smashed.

Do you think that, for example, Texel 1.03 is not original? I ask because Texel is stronger than that other world champion...Junior.

I wonder what will happen later this year when Komodo will play in the next ICGA's WCCC and become World Champion.
It's a pity that Stockfish team doesn't want it to play there.
I only use engines like Komodo, Shredder and HIARCS for my studying. Of course Stockfish should be applauded for its efforts to stay at the top.

My comment was concerning if the "personality" of these engines, which we love, would be lost if they radically changed it. That is why it might be a good idea to have a classic version and a tuned version if you will. Winning is not always compatible with interesting style and I would hate to lose that. It seems Stockfish has become stronger and maintained its style over the years.

My point is that I do not want a world where engines all play the same
“He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, pathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious”

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