World Chess Computer Champion?

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mwyoung
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World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by mwyoung » Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:36 am

I am not sure how this has evolved. That at chess program can self proclaim itself with World Championship Status.

http://komodochess.com/

From the Komodo site.

"2013 World Chess Engine Champion!"

What is strange about the Komodo claim and as far as I know. TCEC has never claimed itself with any kind of World Computer Chess Champion Status.

We have a WCCC history and a 2013 World Computer Champion and it is not Komodo.

http://icga.uvt.nl/wp-uploads/conferenc ... 202013.pdf

From ICGA
Final
standing 2013:

1. and World Champion Software Hiarcs.

Under Komodo's logic of claiming World Championship Status. Houdini 4 could also claim itself to be the World Computer Chess Engine Champion, because like TCEC. CCRL also is a rating list and performs tournaments to rate chess programs. And Right now Houdini 4 is the best chess engine on the CCRL list. And CCRL plays more programs and plays far more games then TCEC.
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Modern Times
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by Modern Times » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:57 am

Any organisation can run a World Championship, and the winner can claim that title. The ICGA is one example.

TCEC includes engines from all over the world, so it isn't too much of a stretch for Komodo to call itself the TCEC World Champion.

As one of the top three engines on most ratings lists, and TCEC winner, I'm pleased to see them promoting themselves in this way.

Hiarcs can claim to be IGCA World Champion, but is an engine that struggles to make the top ten on most ratings lists.

mwyoung
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by mwyoung » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:07 am

Modern Times wrote:Any organisation can run a World Championship, and the winner can claim that title. The ICGA is one example.

TCEC includes engines from all over the world, so it isn't too much of a stretch for Komodo to call itself the TCEC World Champion.

As one of the top three engines on most ratings lists, and TCEC winner, I'm pleased to see them promoting themselves in this way.

Hiarcs can claim to be IGCA World Champion, but is an engine that struggles to make the top ten on most ratings lists.
But TCEC is not a organization, and TCEC does not make any such claim about its status, or claiming it is running any kind of world championship event.

The only one claiming this is Komodo as pointed out in the post.

So you would have no problem with Houdini 4 making the exact same claim. As it would have a stronger claim to the title then Komodo as also pointed out in my post.

Maybe we should all run a WCCC event and crown our own champion. All you need is a computer tournament, and the claim that the event is for the World Computer Chess Championship.

Not dishonest or confusing at all.
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Modern Times
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by Modern Times » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:18 am

mwyoung wrote: Maybe we should all run a WCCC event and crown our own champion. All you need is a computer tournament, and the claim that the event is for the World Computer Chess Championship.
That is correct, anyone can do that. The ICGA does not have exclusive rights to the words "World Champion".

mwyoung
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by mwyoung » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:24 am

Modern Times wrote:
mwyoung wrote: Maybe we should all run a WCCC event and crown our own champion. All you need is a computer tournament, and the claim that the event is for the World Computer Chess Championship.
That is correct, anyone can do that. The ICGA does not have exclusive rights to the words "World Champion".
And for the record Komodo did not say it was the 2013 TCEC Champion as you posted but the "2013 World Chess Engine Champion!"

Then I will also be running a WCCC event. :)
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Modern Times
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by Modern Times » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:33 am

Feel free to do that.

Frankly, given that the ICGA does not attract the top engines to their competitions now, they should instead call their events "ICGA Programmer's Tournament" or something similar. As Bob rightly points out, you can't force people to participate, but it probably seems odd to many people to see an engine called the World Champion when it is hardly even a top 10 engine now.

So this is why Hiarcs has pulled out of TCEC then - it objects to Komodo's claim of World Champion.

mwyoung
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by mwyoung » Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:38 am

Modern Times wrote:Feel free to do that.

Frankly, given that the ICGA does not attract the top engines to their competitions now, they should instead call their events "ICGA Programmer's Tournament" or something similar. As Bob rightly points out, you can't force people to participate, but it probably seems odd to many people to see an engine called the World Champion when it is hardly even a top 10 engine now.

So this is why Hiarcs has pulled out of TCEC then - it objects to Komodo's claim of World Champion.
That is not really the point is it, that we don't like ICGA.

And I do expect your full backing when I crown the next World Computer Chess Champion. :)

My championship will have a prize fund, TCEC does not. I will give my champion $1. At least I will have a prize fund. :)
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Modern Times
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by Modern Times » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:17 am

mwyoung wrote: That is not really the point is it, that we don't like ICGA.
That wasn't the point. The point was, with hardly any of the top engines competing, they should consider re-naming their tournament. It is little different now to the Programmers tournaments that Richard Pijl holds in the Netherlands from time to time.

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M ANSARI
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by M ANSARI » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:21 am

A lot of people think that the TCEC was actually the "real" WCC ... and why not. The setup was pretty impressive and the hardware even more so. You had a qualification stage, then another stage with only the top engines ... then another stage where the top two placers went toe to toe against each other. I cannot think of any other tournament that is as comprehensive with that much time per game and that type of powerful hardware and with so many games as to reduce the factor of luck. I think they can claim the WCC title without having their fingers crossed behind their backs. Komodo won it fair and square!

Modern Times
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Re: World Chess Computer Champion?

Post by Modern Times » Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:25 am

M ANSARI wrote:A lot of people think that the TCEC was actually the "real" WCC ... and why not. The setup was pretty impressive and the hardware even more so. You had a qualification stage, then another stage with only the top engines ... then another stage where the top two placers went toe to toe against each other. I cannot think of any other tournament that is as comprehensive with that much time per game and that type of powerful hardware and with so many games as to reduce the factor of luck. I think they can claim the WCC title without having their fingers crossed behind their backs. Komodo won it fair and square!
Yes, totally agree.

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