World Chess Computer Champion?

[mwyoung]

A lot of people think that the TCEC was actually the "real" WCC ... and why not. The setup was pretty impressive and the hardware even more so. You had a qualification stage, then another stage with only the top engines ... then another stage where the top two placers went toe to toe against each other. I cannot think of any other tournament that is as comprehensive with that much time per game and that type of powerful hardware and with so many games as to reduce the factor of luck. I think they can claim the WCC title without having their fingers crossed behind their backs. Komodo won it fair and square!

The problem is TCEC made no such claim about the competition. Call it for what it is, not for what it is not. It is misleading to the public for Komodo to make such a claim, when TCEC does not even make such a claim.

Does TCEC claim in any way that it is a World Championship event of any kind. The answer is no.

Houdini 4 using Komodo's logic of claiming itself to be a world champion. Could also self proclaim itself to be the World Chess Champion engine, and it could make a stronger case then Komodo for such a claim.

For Komodo - TCEC rating list

For Houdini 4 - CCRL, CGET, IPON, LS...

Because what it comes down to no matter the format, it is about winning and losing games. And what is the best engine.

Under Komodo's logic of self proclaiming world champion status. Any programmer could take anyones tournament and claim it is for the World Championship. It is not relevant that you think TCEC is the best format.

There has been tournaments with more powerful hardware then TCEC posted here at CCC. That does not give the winner of that tournament or match the right to now claim itself a World Champion.

This is exactly what Komodo has done.

[mwyoung]

A lot of people think that the TCEC was actually the "real" WCC ... and why not. The setup was pretty impressive and the hardware even more so. You had a qualification stage, then another stage with only the top engines ... then another stage where the top two placers went toe to toe against each other. I cannot think of any other tournament that is as comprehensive with that much time per game and that type of powerful hardware and with so many games as to reduce the factor of luck. I think they can claim the WCC title without having their fingers crossed behind their backs. Komodo won it fair and square!

Yes, totally agree.

I have to say I do find you attitude in this matter disappointing. As a computer chess tester yourself. Who's goal for posting I hope is to provide accurate information about all chess engines to the public. And his own rating list CCRL shows that Komodo TCEC is ranked behind two other programs. Would sanction such a misleading claim as Komodo's claim as being a World Champion Engine.

When all Komodo has done to make such a self proclamation is to win one tournament TCEC, run by one individual, with no oversight by any organization. And the person running TCEC does not even claim his personal tournament is meant to be a World Championship Event for computer chess engines.

That is very misleading to the public as "World Champion" has a meaning for them. As a person who's goal should be to give accurate and unbias analysis of every chess engine by running a public rating list. All I can say is I thought better of you.

[AdminX]

A lot of people think that the TCEC was actually the "real" WCC ... and why not. The setup was pretty impressive and the hardware even more so. You had a qualification stage, then another stage with only the top engines ... then another stage where the top two placers went toe to toe against each other. I cannot think of any other tournament that is as comprehensive with that much time per game and that type of powerful hardware and with so many games as to reduce the factor of luck. I think they can claim the WCC title without having their fingers crossed behind their backs. Komodo won it fair and square!

The problem is TCEC made no such claim about the competition. Call it for what it is, not for what it is not. It is misleading to the public for Komodo to make such a claim, when TCEC does not even make such a claim.

Does TCEC claim in any way that it is a World Championship event of any kind. The answer is no.

Houdini 4 using Komodo's logic of claiming itself to be a world champion. Could also self proclaim itself to be the World Chess Champion engine, and it could make a stronger case then Komodo for such a claim.

For Komodo - TCEC rating list

For Houdini 4 - CCRL, CGET, IPON, LS...

Because what it comes down to no matter the format, it is about winning and losing games. And what is the best engine.

Under Komodo's logic of self proclaiming world champion status. Any programmer could take anyones tournament and claim it is for the World Championship. It is not relevant that you think TCEC is the best format.

There has been tournaments with more powerful hardware then TCEC posted here at CCC. That does not give the winner of that tournament or match the right to now claim itself a World Champion.

This is exactly what Komodo has done.

Was not a similar claim made by Chessbase when Houdini won the TCEC back when Chessbase started selling it?? It has been a while now and I am not sure if I have my facts straight, however I think I remember reading that in one of their many write ups. I do know that many feel TCEC is the "Un-Official Official World Championship", and at this point I agree.

[Uri Blass]

A lot of people think that the TCEC was actually the "real" WCC ... and why not. The setup was pretty impressive and the hardware even more so. You had a qualification stage, then another stage with only the top engines ... then another stage where the top two placers went toe to toe against each other. I cannot think of any other tournament that is as comprehensive with that much time per game and that type of powerful hardware and with so many games as to reduce the factor of luck. I think they can claim the WCC title without having their fingers crossed behind their backs. Komodo won it fair and square!

I do not agree.
They could write:
1)Komodo is clearly stronger than the world champion based on all the rating lists that we know.

2)Komodo won the TCEC that is the most important chess computer tournament.

[Modern Times]

Because what it comes down to no matter the format, it is about winning and losing games. And what is the best engine.

And you think Hiarcs is the best engine ?? Dream on.

[Modern Times]

Was not a similar claim made by Chessbase when Houdini won the TCEC back when Chessbase started selling it?? It has been a while now and I am not sure if I have my facts straight, however I think I remember reading that in one of their many write ups. I do know that many feel TCEC is the "Un-Official Official World Championship", and at this point I agree.

Why un-official ? Who says that any single organisation has the exclusive right to the "official" world championship, even if such a thing exists ? I don't think an "official" title exists.

The thing to aim for in any World Championship is that as many as possible of the top contestants in the world compete for the title. The closer a championship gets to that goal, the more meaningful it is. Which is why I hold TCEC in the highest regard, and find the ICGA tournament of little or any value. Sure it has the right to exist, and and the programmers enjoy it, but with the lack of top contestants they should consider re-naming it. Their choice.

[mwyoung]

A lot of people think that the TCEC was actually the "real" WCC ... and why not. The setup was pretty impressive and the hardware even more so. You had a qualification stage, then another stage with only the top engines ... then another stage where the top two placers went toe to toe against each other. I cannot think of any other tournament that is as comprehensive with that much time per game and that type of powerful hardware and with so many games as to reduce the factor of luck. I think they can claim the WCC title without having their fingers crossed behind their backs. Komodo won it fair and square!

The problem is TCEC made no such claim about the competition. Call it for what it is, not for what it is not. It is misleading to the public for Komodo to make such a claim, when TCEC does not even make such a claim.

Does TCEC claim in any way that it is a World Championship event of any kind. The answer is no.

Houdini 4 using Komodo's logic of claiming itself to be a world champion. Could also self proclaim itself to be the World Chess Champion engine, and it could make a stronger case then Komodo for such a claim.

For Komodo - TCEC rating list

For Houdini 4 - CCRL, CGET, IPON, LS...

Because what it comes down to no matter the format, it is about winning and losing games. And what is the best engine.

Under Komodo's logic of self proclaiming world champion status. Any programmer could take anyones tournament and claim it is for the World Championship. It is not relevant that you think TCEC is the best format.

There has been tournaments with more powerful hardware then TCEC posted here at CCC. That does not give the winner of that tournament or match the right to now claim itself a World Champion.

This is exactly what Komodo has done.

Was not a similar claim made by Chessbase when Houdini won the TCEC back when Chessbase started selling it?? It has been a while now and I am not sure if I have my facts straight, however I think I remember reading that in one of their many write ups. I do know that many feel TCEC is the "Un-Official Official World Championship", and at this point I agree.

We agree Ted.

And I have no problem in what Robert Houdart called the TCEC or Chessbase. This is how they described TCEC.

On the Chessbase sight quote by Robert Houdart:

"It was short after the release of Houdini 1.5a, and Martin Thoresen organized this fun match – kind of non-official World Champion"

I have no problem with a program or programmer claiming the above. It is a opinion and it is accurate in what TCEC is a "FUN Match"

Now Komodo claims that winning TCEC give him the right to call Komodo the "2013 World Chess Engine Champion!"

This is not accurate to what TCEC is about, and Komodo is misleading the public by claiming that Komodo is the "2013 World Chess Engine Champion!"

[Modern Times]

Now Komodo claims that winning TCEC give him the right to call Komodo the "2013 World Chess Engine Champion!"

This is not accurate to what TCEC is about, and Komodo is misleading the public by claiming that Komodo is the "2013 World Chess Engine Champion!"

In your opinion, that is. I'm ten times happier seeing Komodo or Houdini claim to be World Champion than I am seeing Hiarcs claiming to be, when we all know that Hiarcs is some 100-150 Elo behind those two. Both Komodo and Hiarcs are being truthful in their claims, there is no misleading the public.

Houdini makes no such claims though. Houdini could claim to be CCRL World Champion or CEGT World Champion or whatever, and I would have no problem with that.

[mwyoung]

Because what it comes down to no matter the format, it is about winning and losing games. And what is the best engine.

And you think Hiarcs is the best engine ?? Dream on.

It is a shame that you keep claiming TCEC is a organization. TCEC is a guy with a computer. No disrespect but that is the facts.

And now all you can do it try and throw a straw man at me...

[mwyoung]

Was not a similar claim made by Chessbase when Houdini won the TCEC back when Chessbase started selling it?? It has been a while now and I am not sure if I have my facts straight, however I think I remember reading that in one of their many write ups. I do know that many feel TCEC is the "Un-Official Official World Championship", and at this point I agree.

Why un-official ? Who says that any single organisation has the exclusive right to the "official" world championship, even if such a thing exists ? I don't think an "official" title exists.

The thing to aim for in any World Championship is that as many as possible of the top contestants in the world compete for the title. The closer a championship gets to that goal, the more meaningful it is. Which is why I hold TCEC in the highest regard, and find the ICGA tournament of little or any value. Sure it has the right to exist, and and the programmers enjoy it, but with the lack of top contestants they should consider re-naming it. Their choice.

TCEC is not a organization, it is a guy with a computer. And this guy does not even claim what Komodo is claiming.