New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

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Alex54
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:37 am
Location: Madrid

New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by Alex54 » Fri May 30, 2014 10:04 am

Stockfish 5 new version will be released this weekend, after crushing Komodo 7 in the TCEC Season 6 Superfinal ( 13-6 and 45 draws).
Now the problem goes to Komodo 7. In my opinion its now lonely author was not able to manage the releasing tempo, as he commercialized Komodo 7 BEFORE the starting of the Superfinal. He should have act as the Stockfish team, doing it AFTER the finishing of the Tourn.
Now his situation is rather difficult ,as it is not possible to justify the 60 dollars price of the Komodo 7, after such a disastrous result in the TCEC Superfinal, opposite to a FREE Stockfish.
Congratulations to the Stockfish team. They got an impressive Tourn, with a terrible and unexpected beating to Komodo, winner of the previous TCEC Season.

BKTormey
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:13 pm

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by BKTormey » Fri May 30, 2014 10:32 am

45 draws (70%) doesn't seem to constitute a "crush."
The admission of ignorance is the beginning of wisdom

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Stonewall
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:26 pm
Location: Philippines

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by Stonewall » Fri May 30, 2014 10:55 am

Alex54 wrote:Stockfish 5 new version will be released this weekend, after crushing Komodo 7 in the TCEC Season 6 Superfinal ( 13-6 and 45 draws).
Now the problem goes to Komodo 7. In my opinion its now lonely author was not able to manage the releasing tempo, as he commercialized Komodo 7 BEFORE the starting of the Superfinal. He should have act as the Stockfish team, doing it AFTER the finishing of the Tourn.
Now his situation is rather difficult ,as it is not possible to justify the 60 dollars price of the Komodo 7, after such a disastrous result in the TCEC Superfinal, opposite to a FREE Stockfish.
Congratulations to the Stockfish team. They got an impressive Tourn, with a terrible and unexpected beating to Komodo, winner of the previous TCEC Season.
How sure you are that stockfish might be released this weekend huh ? :) did Marco Costalba say it or even announce it in public ?
Imagination is better than knowledge

BeyondCritics
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 12:48 pm
Location: Bergheim

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by BeyondCritics » Fri May 30, 2014 11:14 am

Let's look at the results. I use gratefully a small cpp program, someone else posted here earlier:
$ ./elodiff 13 6 45
Number of games: 64
Winning fraction: 0.554688
Elo difference: +38.1534
LOS: 0.945853
LOS is calculated using the methods shown by remi coloum.
Thus it is quite certain that stockfish is better, _but_ LOS does not say how much better. It could by better by one Elo point with the same confidence, LOS simply does not know that.
The estimated Elo difference is 38, gathered with 64 tournament games.

They used a special book, to expose misevaluations and to avoid drawish positions and this suceeded obviously extrenly well. _But_ you should keep in mind that the Elo difference is exaggerated due to this.

Alex54
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:37 am
Location: Madrid

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by Alex54 » Fri May 30, 2014 11:40 am

My concept "crush" arises from the other point of view, in terms of percentages of win and lost games, MORE THAN DOUBLE.
THAT is a crush, at this level of playing strength, where the situation of the first programs an their playing levels is supposed to be most balanced and very , very equalized.
And as far as we can see after the Superfinal, this is NOT the case.

zullil
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Full name: Louis Zulli

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by zullil » Fri May 30, 2014 11:41 am

Stonewall wrote:
Alex54 wrote:Stockfish 5 new version will be released this weekend, after crushing Komodo 7 in the TCEC Season 6 Superfinal ( 13-6 and 45 draws).
Now the problem goes to Komodo 7. In my opinion its now lonely author was not able to manage the releasing tempo, as he commercialized Komodo 7 BEFORE the starting of the Superfinal. He should have act as the Stockfish team, doing it AFTER the finishing of the Tourn.
Now his situation is rather difficult ,as it is not possible to justify the 60 dollars price of the Komodo 7, after such a disastrous result in the TCEC Superfinal, opposite to a FREE Stockfish.
Congratulations to the Stockfish team. They got an impressive Tourn, with a terrible and unexpected beating to Komodo, winner of the previous TCEC Season.
How sure you are that stockfish might be released this weekend huh ? :) did Marco Costalba say it or even announce it in public ?
Don't know about this weekend, but here Marco wrote
I will release SF 5 in any case after TCEC, as already planned and announced.

Modern Times
Posts: 2604
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:02 pm

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by Modern Times » Fri May 30, 2014 12:12 pm

I regard 13 wins to 6 as comprehensively beaten. But second place is no shame, Komodo is still a superb engine, and the Komodo team can be proud of their efforts.

mwyoung
Posts: 2433
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:00 pm

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by mwyoung » Fri May 30, 2014 12:13 pm

BeyondCritics wrote:Let's look at the results. I use gratefully a small cpp program, someone else posted here earlier:
$ ./elodiff 13 6 45
Number of games: 64
Winning fraction: 0.554688
Elo difference: +38.1534
LOS: 0.945853
LOS is calculated using the methods shown by remi coloum.
Thus it is quite certain that stockfish is better, _but_ LOS does not say how much better. It could by better by one Elo point with the same confidence, LOS simply does not know that.
The estimated Elo difference is 38, gathered with 64 tournament games.

They used a special book, to expose misevaluations and to avoid drawish positions and this suceeded obviously extrenly well. _But_ you should keep in mind that the Elo difference is exaggerated due to this.
Openings chosen for there entertainment value over there chess testing value. As was done in tcec. Will always favor the weaker engines. Not the other way around as you claim. Inferior openings always help the weaker engine win or draw games. When the openings are played by both programs from each side of the board. A weaker engine can win or draw games against a superior program just because of the inferior opening that that the superior program was forced to play. Resulting in a contraction of the true elo difference.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
take on me. Foes 0.

Uri Blass
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Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by Uri Blass » Fri May 30, 2014 1:23 pm

mwyoung wrote:
BeyondCritics wrote:Let's look at the results. I use gratefully a small cpp program, someone else posted here earlier:
$ ./elodiff 13 6 45
Number of games: 64
Winning fraction: 0.554688
Elo difference: +38.1534
LOS: 0.945853
LOS is calculated using the methods shown by remi coloum.
Thus it is quite certain that stockfish is better, _but_ LOS does not say how much better. It could by better by one Elo point with the same confidence, LOS simply does not know that.
The estimated Elo difference is 38, gathered with 64 tournament games.

They used a special book, to expose misevaluations and to avoid drawish positions and this suceeded obviously extrenly well. _But_ you should keep in mind that the Elo difference is exaggerated due to this.
Openings chosen for there entertainment value over there chess testing value. As was done in tcec. Will always favor the weaker engines. Not the other way around as you claim. Inferior openings always help the weaker engine win or draw games. When the openings are played by both programs from each side of the board. A weaker engine can win or draw games against a superior program just because of the inferior opening that that the superior program was forced to play. Resulting in a contraction of the true elo difference.
A special book to avoid drawish positions can help the stronger engine
because with random balanced openings part of the openings can be easy draw for the weak engines and you avoid it by the special book.

Adam Hair
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina

Re: New Stockfish 5 to be released this weekend

Post by Adam Hair » Fri May 30, 2014 1:25 pm

mwyoung wrote:
BeyondCritics wrote:Let's look at the results. I use gratefully a small cpp program, someone else posted here earlier:
$ ./elodiff 13 6 45
Number of games: 64
Winning fraction: 0.554688
Elo difference: +38.1534
LOS: 0.945853
LOS is calculated using the methods shown by remi coloum.
Thus it is quite certain that stockfish is better, _but_ LOS does not say how much better. It could by better by one Elo point with the same confidence, LOS simply does not know that.
The estimated Elo difference is 38, gathered with 64 tournament games.

They used a special book, to expose misevaluations and to avoid drawish positions and this suceeded obviously extrenly well. _But_ you should keep in mind that the Elo difference is exaggerated due to this.
Openings chosen for there entertainment value over there chess testing value. As was done in tcec. Will always favor the weaker engines. Not the other way around as you claim. Inferior openings always help the weaker engine win or draw games. When the openings are played by both programs from each side of the board. A weaker engine can win or draw games against a superior program just because of the inferior opening that that the superior program was forced to play. Resulting in a contraction of the true elo difference.
For the Superfinal, there was an attempt to find openings that were less drawish without favoring White or Black too much. These type of positions help differentiate the engines as well as creating more entertaining games. Obviously, the selection process was not a complete success, but I think it worked well. And I do not think the TCEC results underestimate the strength difference between Stockfish and Komodo. A random selection of openings typically used in engine testing would tend to have a higher draw rate and W - L would be lower IMO.

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