Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gambit?

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notyetagm
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Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gambit?

Post by notyetagm » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:03 pm

This subject line is from an advetisement for the latest issue of New In Chess Yearbook, number 110, with Anish Giri on the cover.

Has anyone here seen this analysis yet? There is a kid at my club who kills French players with this BS and I would love to get the jump on him with some home prep. Thanks.

-- notyetagm

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Ajedrecista
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Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gambit?

Post by Ajedrecista » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:39 pm

Hello Jeffrey:
notyetagm wrote:This subject line is from an advetisement for the latest issue of New In Chess Yearbook, number 110, with Anish Giri on the cover.

Has anyone here seen this analysis yet? There is a kid at my club who kills French players with this BS and I would love to get the jump on him with some home prep. Thanks.

-- notyetagm
Giri appears in the cover of Yearbook 111; Jobava appears in the cover of number 110:

http://www.newinchess.com/Shop/Products ... PageID=213

It would be good that you (or someone else) copy here all the moves until 13.- ..., b6 is reached, otherwise few people (if any) can help you. Thanks in advance.

By the way: are you refering to the following line?

[pgn]1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. Nf3 Qb6 6. Bd3 Bd7 7. O-O cxd4 8. cxd4 Nxd4 9. Nxd4 Qxd4 10. Nc3 a6 11. Qe2 Ne7 12. Rd1 Qa7 13. Be3[/pgn]

In this case, both 13.- ..., Qb8 and 13.- ..., b6 look good at low depths with SF analysis.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

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Eelco de Groot
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Re: Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gam

Post by Eelco de Groot » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:34 pm

I think Jeffrey is quoting notyetagm from http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Y ... 03291136/0

Here the following game is given:
[pgn]
[Event "4NCL 2013-14"]
[Site "Hinckley ENG"]
[Date "2014.03.23"]
[Round "8.112"]
[White "Smerdon, David"]
[Black "Sadler, Matthew D"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2523"]
[BlackElo "2646"]
[ECO "C02"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Qb6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bd3 cxd4 7. cxd4 Bd7 8. O-O Nxd4 9. Nbd2 Bc5 10. Nxd4 Bxd4 11. Nf3 Ne7 12. Nxd4 Qxd4 13. Re1 b6 14. Be3 Qxb2 15. Qg4 Ng6 16. Rab1 Qc3 17. Bf1 O-O 18. Bd4 Qc2 19. Rb3 Rac8 20. Rh3 Qd2 21. Rd1 Qf4 22. Qh5 h6 23. Be3 Qxe5 24. Qf3 Ba4 25. Rd4 Bc2 26. Rh5 f5 27. Qh3 Rc3 28. Rd2 Be4 29. g4 Qf6 0-1[/pgn]

[D]r3k2r/p2bnppp/1p2p3/3pP3/3q4/3B4/PP3PPP/R1BQR1K1 w kq -

Image
KCVO, CB, OBE, head codebreaker of Hut 6 at Bletchley Park and chessplayer Sir Stuart Milner-Barry (image and quote below are clickable and link to the Wikipedia articles where I borrowed the information from). Curiously Bletchley park comes up more often in my posts. For instance the infamous HIARCS patches can be bought from a Quilting shop situated very near... Bletchley Park :)

Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

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AdminX
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Re: Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gam

Post by AdminX » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:48 am

[D]r3k2r/p2bnppp/1p2p3/3pP3/3q4/3B4/PP3PPP/R1BQR1K1 w kq -

Cloud Analysis (Stockfish as Crawler) gives ...

1. Rb1 Nc6
2. Be3 Qxe5
3. Bd2 (Stockfish -0.13/34 =) or Bxb6 (Komodo -0.34/28 =/+)

Both showing TBhits in analysis window.
Last edited by AdminX on Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gambit?

Post by Ajedrecista » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:52 am

Hello:

Thanks Eelco for copying the line.

Analysis by Stockfish TCEC6 w32 PA GTB using two cores in an Intel Pentium D930 (3 GHz), with 1 GB of hash and MultiPV = 3, running under Arena 2.0.1:

[d]r3k2r/pp1bnppp/4p3/3pP3/3q4/3B4/PP3PPP/R1BQR1K1 b kq - 1 13

Code: Select all

[...]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 27/41	08:54	 331.216.426	620.272	+0,41	Ra8c8 Qd1b3 Bd7a4 Qb3a3 Ne7c6 Bc1d2 Ba4c2 Bd3b5 a7a6 Bb5xc6+ Rc8xc6 Bd2b4 h7h5 Ra1c1 h5h4 h2h3 Qd4f4 Bb4c5 Qf4c4 Bc5e3 Qc4a4 Qa3xa4 Bc2xa4 b2b3 Ba4b5 Rc1xc6 Bb5xc6
 27/41	08:53	 331.216.426	620.272	+0,44	Ne7g6 Bd3xg6 Qd4xd1 Bg6xf7+ Ke8xf7 Re1xd1 Rh8c8 Bc1e3 Rc8c2 b2b3 Ra8c8 g2g3 Kf7g6 a2a4 a7a6 Be3d4 h7h6 h2h3 b7b5 a4xb5 Bd7xb5 g3g4 Kg6g5 Kg1g2 Kg5f4 Bd4e3+ Kf4e4 Be3d4 g7g5
 27/41	08:53	 331.216.426	620.272	+0,52	b7b6 Ra1b1 Ne7c6 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3xb6 Qe5d6 Bb6e3 OO Rb1c1 d5d4 Be3d2 Rf8c8 Qd1h5 f7f5 Qh5e2 Ra8b8 b2b3 Nc6b4 Bd3c4 Nb4d5 Qe2e5 Qd6xe5 Re1xe5 Nd5b6 Bc4xe6+ Bd7xe6 Re5xe6 Rc8xc1+ Bd2xc1 Nb6d5 Re6e5 Rb8c8
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 28/41	10:17	 383.943.765	622.005	+0,39	Ra8c8 Qd1b3 Bd7a4 Qb3a3 Ne7c6 Bc1d2 Ba4c2 Bd3b5 a7a6 Bb5xc6+ Rc8xc6 Bd2b4 Qd4h4 Bb4c5 Qh4c4 Bc5d6 Qc4f4 Ra1c1 h7h5 Bd6c5 Qf4c4 Bc5d6 Qc4g4 Bd6c5 Qg4c4 Bc5d6 Qc4g4 Bd6c5 Qg4c4
 28/41	10:17	 383.943.765	622.005	+0,40	Ne7g6 Bd3xg6 Qd4xd1 Bg6xf7+ Ke8xf7 Re1xd1 Rh8c8 Bc1e3 Rc8c2 b2b3 Ra8c8 Be3xa7 Rc8a8 Ba7d4 Ra8xa2 Ra1xa2 Rc2xa2 g2g4 Ra2a3 Rd1b1 Bd7b5 Bd4c5 Ra3a2 Rb1c1 Ra2b2 Rc1c3 Rb2b1+ Kg1g2 g7g5 Bc5e3
 28/41	10:17	 383.943.765	622.005	+0,41	b7b6 Ra1b1 Ne7c6 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3xb6 Qe5d6 Bb6e3 OO Rb1c1 d5d4 Be3d2 Rf8c8 Qd1h5 f7f5 Qh5e2 Ra8b8 b2b3 e6e5 Bd3a6 Rc8e8 Ba6b5 Rb8b6 Qe2c4+ Kg8h8 Qc4c5 Qd6xc5 Rc1xc5 e5e4 a2a4 a7a6
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 29/41	16:28	 607.709.888	614.575	+0,28	Ra8c8 Qd1b3 Bd7a4 Qb3a3 Ne7c6 Bc1d2 Ba4c2 Bd3b5 a7a6 Bb5xc6+ Rc8xc6 Bd2b4 h7h5 Re1e3 Rc6c4 Re3c3 Rc4xb4 Rc3c8+ Ke8d7 Rc8xh8 Qd4xb2 Qa3xb2 Rb4xb2 Rh8xh5 Bc2g6 Rh5h4 b7b5 a2a3 Rb2c2
 29/41	16:28	 607.709.888	614.575	+0,31	Ne7g6 Bd3xg6 Qd4xd1 Bg6xf7+ Ke8xf7 Re1xd1 Rh8c8 Bc1e3 Rc8c2 b2b3 Ra8c8 Be3xa7 Rc8a8 Ba7d4 Ra8xa2 Ra1xa2 Rc2xa2 Rd1d3 Bd7b5 Rd3f3+ Kf7e8 h2h4 Ra2e2 Bd4e3 Re2b2 Be3c5 h7h6 Rf3f8+ Ke8d7 Rf8f7+ Kd7c6 Bc5e3 Rb2xb3
 29/41	16:28	 607.709.888	614.575	+0,38	b7b6 Ra1b1 Ne7c6 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3d2 Qe5d6 b2b4 a7a6 a2a4 OO b4b5 a6xb5 a4xb5 Nc6d4 Bd2b4 Qd6f4 Bb4xf8 Kg8xf8 Rb1a1 Ra8xa1 Qd1xa1 g7g6 Re1d1 Bd7xb5 Bd3xb5 Nd4xb5 g2g3 Qf4g4 Rd1b1 Qg4e2 Qa1f6
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The evals are from the side to move (that is, SF indicates that black is slightly better). 13.- ..., b6 is the best move according to SF by a very narrow margin, nothing significant.

Then I tried Houdini with the same settings:

Code: Select all

[...]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 21/54	03:56	 229.792.436	977.000	+0,27	a7a5 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Ra1c1 d5d4 Be3d2 Qe5d5 Bd3e4 Qd5d6 Be4xb7 Ra8b8 Qd1f3 Qd6b6 Bb7e4 OO b2b3 Rb8c8 Be4d3 Rc8xc1 Bd2xc1 Qb6b4 Re1d1 Rf8c8 Bc1d2 Qb4b6 Rd1c1 Rc8xc1+ Bd2xc1 Ne7d5 Qf3e4
 21/54	03:56	 229.792.436	977.000	+0,28	h7h6 h2h3 Ra8c8 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3xa7 Qe5g5 Qd1b3 OO Ba7e3 Qg5f6 Qb3xb7 Rf8d8 Qb7b6 Rc8b8 Qb6c7 Ne7c6 b2b3 Nc6b4 Bd3f1 Rb8c8 Qc7f4 Qf6xf4 Be3xf4 Nb4c2
 21/54	03:56	 229.792.436	977.000	+0,29	Ne7g6 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Qd1b3 Bd7c6 Qb3b4 a7a5 Qb4c5 d5d4 Be3xd4 Qe5xc5 Bd4xc5 Ra8d8 Re1d1 Rd8d5 Bc5b6 OO Bd3xg6 h7xg6 Rd1xd5 Bc6xd5 Bb6xa5 Rf8a8 Ba5b6 Bd5xa2 f2f4 Ra8a4 Bb6f2 Kg8h7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 22/55	10:14	 616.373.376	1.005.000	+0,27	a7a5 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Ra1c1 d5d4 Be3d2 Qe5d5 Bd3e4 Qd5d6 Be4xb7 Ra8b8 Qd1f3 Qd6b6 Bb7e4 OO b2b3 Rb8c8 Be4d3 Rc8xc1 Bd2xc1 Qb6b4 Re1d1 Rf8c8 Bc1d2 Qb4b6 Rd1c1 Rc8xc1+ Bd2xc1 Ne7d5 Qf3e4
 22/55	10:14	 616.373.376	1.005.000	+0,28	h7h6 h2h3 Ra8c8 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3xa7 Qe5g5 Qd1b3 OO Ba7e3 Qg5f6 Qb3xb7 Rf8d8 Qb7b6 Rc8b8 Qb6c7 Ne7c6 b2b3 Nc6b4 Bd3f1 Rb8c8 Qc7f4 Qf6xf4 Be3xf4 Nb4c2
 22/55	10:14	 616.373.376	1.005.000	+0,32	Ra8c8 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3xa7 Qe5d6 Qd1b3 Ne7c6 Qb3xb7 OO Qb7b6 e6e5 Qb6c5 Qd6e6 Ba7b6 e5e4 Bd3f1 Nc6e5 Bb6c7 Qe6g6 Re1d1 Ne5d3 Bf1xd3 e4xd3 Qc5b6 Qg6f5 Bc7g3 Rc8c2 Qb6d4 Bd7b5 a2a4 Bb5c4 b2b3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 23/55	17:10	1.039.868.447	1.011.000	+0,19	h7h6 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3c5 Qe5f6 Bc5d6 OO Re1e3 Ne7c6 Bd6xf8 Ra8xf8 Qd1b3 Rf8b8 Ra1c1 g7g6 Rc1d1 d5d4 Re3h3 Qf6g5 Rh3g3 Qg5f4 Bd3e2 Qf4f6 Be2d3 Qf6e5 Rg3h3 h6h5 Rh3g3
 23/55	17:10	1.039.868.447	1.011.000	+0,24	a7a5 Bc1g5 Ra8c8 Qd1d2 Qd4b4 Qd2xb4 a5xb4 Bg5e3 OO Be3b6 g7g6 Re1c1 Rc8c6 Rc1xc6 Ne7xc6 f2f4 Rf8c8 Kg1f2 Rc8a8 Bb6c5 Kg8g7 Bd3e2 h7h5 Be2d3
 23/55	17:10	1.039.868.447	1.011.000	+0,32	Ra8c8 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3xa7 Qe5d6 Qd1b3 Ne7c6 Qb3xb7 OO Qb7b6 e6e5 Qb6c5 Qd6e6 Ba7b6 e5e4 Bd3f1 Nc6e5 Bb6c7 Qe6g6 Re1d1 Ne5d3 Bf1xd3 e4xd3 Qc5b6 Qg6f5 Bc7g3 Rc8c2 Qb6d4 Bd7b5 a2a4 Bb5c4 b2b3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
At high depths, 13.- ..., b6 was fourth and sometimes fifth. Again, there was not a move that shines over the rest and also black does not seem to have an overwhelming advantage, so I would say that there is not a killer move that kills this gambit.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

zullil
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Re: Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gam

Post by zullil » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:02 pm

Ajedrecista wrote:Hello:

Thanks Eelco for copying the line.

Analysis by Stockfish TCEC6 w32 PA GTB using two cores in an Intel Pentium D930 (3 GHz), with 1 GB of hash and MultiPV = 3, running under Arena 2.0.1:

[d]r3k2r/pp1bnppp/4p3/3pP3/3q4/3B4/PP3PPP/R1BQR1K1 b kq - 1 13

Code: Select all

[...]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 27/41	08:54	 331.216.426	620.272	+0,41	Ra8c8 Qd1b3 Bd7a4 Qb3a3 Ne7c6 Bc1d2 Ba4c2 Bd3b5 a7a6 Bb5xc6+ Rc8xc6 Bd2b4 h7h5 Ra1c1 h5h4 h2h3 Qd4f4 Bb4c5 Qf4c4 Bc5e3 Qc4a4 Qa3xa4 Bc2xa4 b2b3 Ba4b5 Rc1xc6 Bb5xc6
 27/41	08:53	 331.216.426	620.272	+0,44	Ne7g6 Bd3xg6 Qd4xd1 Bg6xf7+ Ke8xf7 Re1xd1 Rh8c8 Bc1e3 Rc8c2 b2b3 Ra8c8 g2g3 Kf7g6 a2a4 a7a6 Be3d4 h7h6 h2h3 b7b5 a4xb5 Bd7xb5 g3g4 Kg6g5 Kg1g2 Kg5f4 Bd4e3+ Kf4e4 Be3d4 g7g5
 27/41	08:53	 331.216.426	620.272	+0,52	b7b6 Ra1b1 Ne7c6 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3xb6 Qe5d6 Bb6e3 OO Rb1c1 d5d4 Be3d2 Rf8c8 Qd1h5 f7f5 Qh5e2 Ra8b8 b2b3 Nc6b4 Bd3c4 Nb4d5 Qe2e5 Qd6xe5 Re1xe5 Nd5b6 Bc4xe6+ Bd7xe6 Re5xe6 Rc8xc1+ Bd2xc1 Nb6d5 Re6e5 Rb8c8
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 28/41	10:17	 383.943.765	622.005	+0,39	Ra8c8 Qd1b3 Bd7a4 Qb3a3 Ne7c6 Bc1d2 Ba4c2 Bd3b5 a7a6 Bb5xc6+ Rc8xc6 Bd2b4 Qd4h4 Bb4c5 Qh4c4 Bc5d6 Qc4f4 Ra1c1 h7h5 Bd6c5 Qf4c4 Bc5d6 Qc4g4 Bd6c5 Qg4c4 Bc5d6 Qc4g4 Bd6c5 Qg4c4
 28/41	10:17	 383.943.765	622.005	+0,40	Ne7g6 Bd3xg6 Qd4xd1 Bg6xf7+ Ke8xf7 Re1xd1 Rh8c8 Bc1e3 Rc8c2 b2b3 Ra8c8 Be3xa7 Rc8a8 Ba7d4 Ra8xa2 Ra1xa2 Rc2xa2 g2g4 Ra2a3 Rd1b1 Bd7b5 Bd4c5 Ra3a2 Rb1c1 Ra2b2 Rc1c3 Rb2b1+ Kg1g2 g7g5 Bc5e3
 28/41	10:17	 383.943.765	622.005	+0,41	b7b6 Ra1b1 Ne7c6 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3xb6 Qe5d6 Bb6e3 OO Rb1c1 d5d4 Be3d2 Rf8c8 Qd1h5 f7f5 Qh5e2 Ra8b8 b2b3 e6e5 Bd3a6 Rc8e8 Ba6b5 Rb8b6 Qe2c4+ Kg8h8 Qc4c5 Qd6xc5 Rc1xc5 e5e4 a2a4 a7a6
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 29/41	16:28	 607.709.888	614.575	+0,28	Ra8c8 Qd1b3 Bd7a4 Qb3a3 Ne7c6 Bc1d2 Ba4c2 Bd3b5 a7a6 Bb5xc6+ Rc8xc6 Bd2b4 h7h5 Re1e3 Rc6c4 Re3c3 Rc4xb4 Rc3c8+ Ke8d7 Rc8xh8 Qd4xb2 Qa3xb2 Rb4xb2 Rh8xh5 Bc2g6 Rh5h4 b7b5 a2a3 Rb2c2
 29/41	16:28	 607.709.888	614.575	+0,31	Ne7g6 Bd3xg6 Qd4xd1 Bg6xf7+ Ke8xf7 Re1xd1 Rh8c8 Bc1e3 Rc8c2 b2b3 Ra8c8 Be3xa7 Rc8a8 Ba7d4 Ra8xa2 Ra1xa2 Rc2xa2 Rd1d3 Bd7b5 Rd3f3+ Kf7e8 h2h4 Ra2e2 Bd4e3 Re2b2 Be3c5 h7h6 Rf3f8+ Ke8d7 Rf8f7+ Kd7c6 Bc5e3 Rb2xb3
 29/41	16:28	 607.709.888	614.575	+0,38	b7b6 Ra1b1 Ne7c6 Bc1e3 Qd4xe5 Be3d2 Qe5d6 b2b4 a7a6 a2a4 OO b4b5 a6xb5 a4xb5 Nc6d4 Bd2b4 Qd6f4 Bb4xf8 Kg8xf8 Rb1a1 Ra8xa1 Qd1xa1 g7g6 Re1d1 Bd7xb5 Bd3xb5 Nd4xb5 g2g3 Qf4g4 Rd1b1 Qg4e2 Qa1f6
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The evals are from the side to move (that is, SF indicates that black is slightly better). 13.- ..., b6 is the best move according to SF by a very narrow margin, nothing significant.
Here's more from SF with MultiPV=3:

Code: Select all

info depth 42 seldepth 63 score cp 39 nodes 132855792889 nps 15853069 time 8380446 multipv 1 pv a8c8 c1e3 d4e5 e3a7 e5d6 a7d4 f7f6 d1h5 g7g6 h5h6 e8f7 f2f4 e7c6 d4f2 c6b4 e1d1 d6f8 h6h4 f7g7 d3e2 f8f7 a2a3 b4c6 h4g3 e6e5 f4e5 c6e5 f2d4 h8e8 d1f1 g7g8 a1e1 e8e6 d4c3 c8e8 e1d1 d7c6 g3h4 f7e7 c3b4 e7g7 b2b3 b7b6 h4f2

info depth 42 seldepth 63 score cp 35 nodes 132855792889 nps 15853069 time 8380446 multipv 2 pv a7a6 d1b3 d7c6 c1g5 h7h6 g5e7 e8e7 b3a3 e7e8 a1d1 d4h4 a3c5 h4e7 c5d4 e8f8 e1e3 c6b5 d3b1 a8c8 b2b3 e7c5 d4d2 h6h5 h2h4 c5e7 a2a4 b5e8 d2d4 b7b5 b1d3 b5a4 b3a4 c8b8 d1b1 b8b1 d3b1 g7g6 d4f4 f8g7

info depth 42 seldepth 63 score cp 25 nodes 132855792889 nps 15853069 time 8380446 multipv 3 pv b7b6 a1b1 e7c6 c1e3 d4e5 e3d2 e5d6 b2b4 a7a6 a2a4 e8g8 b4b5 a6b5 a4b5 c6a5 d2b4 d6f4 g2g3 f4b8 b4f8 b8f8 b1a1 a8c8 a1c1 a5b7 c1c8 f8c8 d3e2 b7c5 d1d4 c8e8 e1b1 h7h6 g1g2
SF sees b6 as third-best in an already slightly favorable position for Black.

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Re: Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gam

Post by jefk » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:52 pm

[quote="Eelco de Groot"]I think Jeffrey is quoting notyetagm from http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/Y ... 03291136/0
Here the following game is given:
[pgn]
[Event "4NCL 2013-14"]
[Site "Hinckley ENG"]
[Date "2014.03.23"]
[Round "8.112"]
[White "Smerdon, David"]
[Black "Sadler, Matthew D"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "2523"]
[BlackElo "2646"]
[ECO "C02"]
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Qb6 5. Nf3 Nc6 6. Bd3 cxd4 7. cxd4 Bd7 8. O-O Nxd4 9. Nbd2 Bc5?! 10. Nxd4?

Here 10.b4! might be better.
Going back this means that instead of 9...Bc5 Black better can
play 9...Nc6.
But because of that, White can maybe better play 8.Be2!
instead of 8.0-0. But then it's not a gambit anymoe
:)

jef


Bxd4 11. Nf3 Ne7 12. Nxd4 Qxd4 13. Re1 b6 14. Be3 Qxb2 15. Qg4 Ng6 16. Rab1 Qc3 17. Bf1 O-O 18. Bd4 Qc2 19. Rb3 Rac8 20. Rh3 Qd2 21. Rd1 Qf4 22. Qh5 h6 23. Be3 Qxe5 24. Qf3 Ba4 25. Rd4 Bc2 26. Rh5 f5 27. Qh3 Rc3 28. Rd2 Be4 29. g4 Qf6 0-1[/pgn]
jefk

jdart
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Re: Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gam

Post by jdart » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:01 pm

I don't think the Milner-Barry has been very popular at the top levels, even before this game.

If White wants to vary from this line, he can try 9. Nxd4.

--Jon

Dan Astrachan
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Re: Does Sadler’s novelty 13..b6!! kill the Milner-Barry Gam

Post by Dan Astrachan » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:30 am

jdart wrote:I don't think the Milner-Barry has been very popular at the top levels, even before this game.

Jon
Apparently, with good reason!

I tested various positions with a recent dev build of SF (Stockfish 240614 64 SSE4.2).

First, I wanted to see what SF thought of 6.Bd3, which is where the position becomes the Milner-Barry gambit. So I analyzed the position after 5...Nc6

[D]r1b1kbnr/pp3ppp/1qn1p3/2ppP3/3P4/2P2N2/PP3PPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 3 6

Code: Select all

 35/50	3:00:04	 15 964 647k	1 478k	-0,10	Qb3 Qxb3 axb3 cxd4 Nxd4 Nxd4 cxd4 Ne7 Be3 Nc6 Nc3 Bd7 Be2 Bb4
 35/50	3:00:04	 15 964 647k	1 478k	 0,00	Na3 cxd4 cxd4 Bb4+ Bd2 Nge7 Bc3 Bd7 Be2 0-0 0-0 Bxc3 bxc3 Qb2 Nb5 Nxe5 Rb1 Nxf3+ gxf3 Qxa2 Ra1 Qb2 Rb1 Qa2
 35/50	3:00:04	 15 964 647k	1 478k	 0,00	a3 f6 b4 fxe5 bxc5 Qa5 dxe5 Bxc5 Bd3 Nge7 0-0 0-0 Bb2 Qc7 c4 dxc4 Bxh7+ Kxh7 Ng5+ Kg8 Qh5 Rf5 Qe8+ Rf8 Qh5
 35/50	3:00:04	 15 964 647k	1 478k	 0,00	Be2 cxd4 cxd4 Nge7 Nc3 Nf5 Na4 Qa5+ Nc3 Qb6
In a 4-PV analysis, we can see that SF does not recommend 6. Bd3. Be2, a3 and even Na3 seem to maintain complete equality, while Qb3 is only very slightly worse.

Another move that SF didn't like is 8. O-O Here is the position just before it:

[D]r3kbnr/pp1b1ppp/1qn1p3/3pP3/3P4/3B1N2/PP3PPP/RNBQK2R w KQkq - 1 8

This is what SF said :

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 36/56	4:02:48	 21 197 566k	1 455k	-0,39	Qe2 Nxd4 Nxd4 Qxd4 Nd2 Ne7 Nf3 Qb6 Be3 Qd8 0-0 Nc6 a3 Be7 Rac1 a6 b4 Rc8 Rfe1 g5 Bc2 h5 Nd4 Nxd4 Bxd4 Bb5 Bd3 Bxd3 Qxd3 0-0
 36/56	4:02:48	 21 197 566k	1 455k	-0,33	0-0 Nxd4 Nbd2 Nxf3+ Nxf3 Ne7 Be3 Qd8 Bc5 Ng6 Bxf8 Nxf8 Rc1 Ng6 Qb3 Bc6 Rfe1 Qb6 Qxb6 axb6 a3 0-0 Nd4 Rfc8 g3 Ne7 f4 g6 Red1 Kg7 Kg2 Ra4 Be2
 36/56	4:02:48	 21 197 566k	1 455k	-0,29	Bc2 Nb4 0-0 Nxc2 Qxc2 Ne7 Nc3 Nf5 Qd3 Be7 g4 Nh4 Nxh4 Bxh4 g5 h6 gxh6 gxh6 b3 0-0-0 Ba3 Rdg8+ Kh1 Kb8 Bc5 Qd8 Rg1 f5 f4 h5
 37/56	4:02:48	 21 197 566k	1 455k	-0,15	Be2 Nge7 Nc3 Nf5 Na4 Bb4+ Kf1 Qd8 g4 Nh4 Bg5 Be7 Bxh4 Bxh4 Nc5 Be7 Nxd7 Qxd7 h4 h5 g5 0-0 Kg2 g6 Qd2 Rfc8 Rac1 a6 a3 b5 Qc3 Qa7 Qe3 Bd8 Rc3 Bb6
So here, according to SF, the only move that doesn't give black an edge is Be2 (which prevents Nxd4 by Black). After 8. O-O, Black is already a bit better.

Now, let's see the position right before 13...b6, which is what the OP posted about:

[D]r3k2r/pp1bnppp/4p3/3pP3/3q4/3B4/PP3PPP/R1BQR1K1 b kq - 1 13

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 34/55	1:47:45	 9 747 487k	1 508k	-0,29	a5 Rb1 Ng6 Be3 Qxe5 Bc5 Qg5 Rc1 Bc6 g3 Rd8 Bb6 Rc8 f4 Qf6 Bc5 Ne7 Qc2 d4 Qf2 0-0 Bxd4 Qh6 Bb6 Ra8 Bc5 Rfe8 Re5
 34/55	1:47:45	 9 747 487k	1 508k	-0,33	Rc8 Be3 Qxe5 Bxa7 Qd6 Bd4 0-0 Be5 Qb6 Bd4 Qc6 Qh5 Nf5 Bxf5 exf5 Qg5 f6 Qd2 Rfe8 Be3 Be6 Rac1 Qd6 a4 Qd7 a5 Rc4 Bc5 Bf7 Rxe8+
 34/55	1:47:45	 9 747 487k	1 508k	-0,33	b6 Rb1 Nc6 Be3 Qxe5 Bd2 Qd6 b4 a6 Qg4 g6 Bf4 e5 Bxe5 Bxg4 Bxd6+ Kd7 Bf4 Rhe8 Rxe8 Rxe8 Bxa6 Re4 Bd2 Be2 Bxe2 Rxe2 Rd1 Ke6 Kf1 Re4 Rc1 Ne5 Rc7 h5 f3 Rc4 Rxc4 Nxc4
 34/55	1:47:45	 9 747 487k	1 508k	-0,34	a6 Qb3 Bc6 Bg5 h6 Bxe7 Kxe7 Qa3+ Ke8 Rad1 Qb6 Be2 h5 Rd3 g6 Rb3 Qd8 Qb4 h4 h3 Qg5 Qd4 Kf8 Bg4 Kg7 Rf3 Rhf8 Rf6 Kg8 b3 Qh6 Bf3 Rac8 
Black has several good moves here that all maintain Black's small advantage. However, it doesn't look like something unsurmountable for White.

However, White basically throws the game away with its next two moves.

First, 14. Be3. White loses the b2 pawn for no good reason. Instead, here's the line suggested by SF:

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 38/58	53:25	  5 123 747k	1 599k	-0,33	Rb1  Nc6  Be3  Qxe5  Bd2  Qd6  b4  a6  Qg4  0-0  Bh6  g6  Qh4  e5  Bxf8  Rxf8  Bxa6  Nd4  Qg3  f6  Bd3  Kg7  Qe3  Ne6  Qd2  d4  a3  Nf4  Ra1  Bc6  f3  Qd7  Rec1  Nxd3  Qxd3  Bb5  

After Black logically takes the b2 pawn, White commits suicide with 15.Qg4. SF recommended 15. Rc1 instead:

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38/59	53:28	  5 347 036k	1 667k	-0,58	Rc1  Qa3  Qe2  h6  Rc7  Rc8  Rxc8+  Nxc8  Rc1  Ne7  Rc7  Kd8  Qc2  Ba4  Rxa7  Bxc2  Bxb6+  Kc8  Rxa3  Bxd3  Rxd3  Kd7  f4  Ra8  a3  Nc6  Be3  Rb8  Kf2  Na5  Bd4  g6  Ke2  Rc8  Be3  Nc4  Bd2  Rg8  Rb3  Kc6  Rh3  Ra8  Bb4
White is worse, even with this line but a lot less than after 15. Qg4: White is two pawns down, and the game is lost.


So in the end, I'd say that while the Milner-Barry gambit is probably not an optimal line to play for White, I don't think 13...b6 kills it in any way. White can apparently hold fine with 14. Rb1, but here, the loss is simply a matter of White playing two blunders in a row. It's probably wiser not enter this line at all, though and play 6. Be2 or 6. a3 instead :)
Computer used: Intel Core i7 875K @ 2.93GH, 4 cores, 12 Gb of RAM

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