Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

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Who will win the four-game match?

Nakamura
5
7%
Stockfish
55
82%
Tie
7
10%
 
Total votes: 67

Dan Astrachan
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 9:07 am

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Dan Astrachan » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:06 pm

Out of curiosity, how does the operator who will move the pieces for SF decide when to make the move? Is it left to their own choice (they make the move whenever they think it's appropriate) or does the engine send some sort of specific instruction (like "I'm done thinking, play this move now.")?
Computer used: Intel Core i7 875K @ 2.93GH, 4 cores, 12 Gb of RAM

Nitro
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:20 am
Location: California

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Nitro » Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:48 pm

Dan Astrachan wrote:Out of curiosity, how does the operator who will move the pieces for SF decide when to make the move? Is it left to their own choice (they make the move whenever they think it's appropriate) or does the engine send some sort of specific instruction (like "I'm done thinking, play this move now.")?
I make the move on the board whenever Stockfish makes its move on the computer, so I have no say in when the move gets made. I program in the time control of the game, and Stockfish makes its moves accordingly. (Actually, I give it a 22 second increment instead of 30 seconds, just to account for the amount of time it takes me to enter the opponent's move into the computer and the time it takes me to make the computer's move on the board.)

User avatar
Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9773
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:40 pm

reflectionofpower wrote:
Modern Times wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote: But yet again,this is not a classic game of chess....

It's some kind of a mutation and it does not prove anything....

To go a little bit further,it's actually an ugly variation of chess....
Dr.D
The answer is clear - if the games would be chess960 then that would be a huge improvement :mrgreen:
.
Actually that is a good idea.
I prefer Chess 960 any day over the abomination called material odd chess....

Even if Naka hold a draw or even win one game with no a7,b7,c7,d7,e7,f7,g7 or h7,then what :!: :?:

What does that accomplishment prove :!: :?:

Nada....

If you tell a first grader who's is familiar with the chess game rules that some strong GM won a game against a super powerful computer with the white pieces while the computer's e7 pawn was missing from the chess board,he'd probably laugh at yuor face right away regards,
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Uri Blass
Posts: 8975
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:37 pm
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Uri Blass » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:02 pm

Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Nitro wrote:One month after the very entertaining match between GM Naroditsky + Rybka and Stockfish (described here by Naroditsky: http://www.chess.com/article/view/how-r ... -the-world), we will be hosting another match with the best chess player in the United States: Hikaru Nakamura (FIDE 2787 Elo, and a remarkable 2906 Elo at Blitz).

The format will be similar, but not exactly the same. The first two games will be the same as the previous match: Nakamura will be able to use Rybka 3 on a 2008 MacBook to analyze moves in a 45'/30" match against the latest build of Stockfish on a current 8-core Mac Pro. Each side will play as white once, and Stockfish will have no opening book (and no tablebases).

For the last two games, Nakamura will play by himself (no help from Rybka), but he will have move-and-pawn odds against Stockfish. Specifically, he will play as white both games, and Stockfish will play black with one pawn removed. The pawn to be removed will be selected at random by rolling an 8-sided die before each of the two games. The time control will be the same as the first two games.

The actual games will be played on a physical chess board; I'll be making the moves on behalf of Stockfish.

We will be broadcasting the games live on chess.com, but we'd also like to invite any of you to attend the match in person, where you'll be able to see real-time mirrored feeds from both of the two computers, watch Nakamura play live, and interact with him and other chess fans.

The event is next Saturday (August 23) in Hillsborough, California (just a bit south of San Francisco). If you'd like to come, please RSVP here:

https://www.facebook.com/events/312975918877354/

We'll have complimentary snacks, lunch, and drinks.

In the meantime, feel free to vote on who you think will win the match!
Thank you again... !

I have no patience to the final results of this interesting duel...

Btw,
If Nakamura will use a very well-optimized strong book for Rybka 3,
Then I expect to see almost equal performance ...

To be honest (in case of serious matches),
Engines should not be tested without pawns or without books,
because (depending on speed hardware, hashtable size, time control etc..) they are repeating and playing almost same games...
and a good memorized GM can remember the previous played games and of course later can make draws even against top engines ;)



Keep up he good work,
Sedat
He dosen't have to be a GM Sedat ....

A 30-40 games against the chess engine making the same moves will be more than enough for a guy like you or me to hold the silicon beast to a draw :wink:
Dr.D
Is is based on experience?
I did not try it and I do not find it interesting to try it to see if I can get a draw by that way.

It is clear that stockfish with 8 cores is also not deterministic and may choose different moves in different games so it is possible that the number of lines that I need to memorize to get a draw is too big for my memory.

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Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9773
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:13 pm

Uri Blass wrote:
Dr.Wael Deeb wrote:
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Nitro wrote:One month after the very entertaining match between GM Naroditsky + Rybka and Stockfish (described here by Naroditsky: http://www.chess.com/article/view/how-r ... -the-world), we will be hosting another match with the best chess player in the United States: Hikaru Nakamura (FIDE 2787 Elo, and a remarkable 2906 Elo at Blitz).

The format will be similar, but not exactly the same. The first two games will be the same as the previous match: Nakamura will be able to use Rybka 3 on a 2008 MacBook to analyze moves in a 45'/30" match against the latest build of Stockfish on a current 8-core Mac Pro. Each side will play as white once, and Stockfish will have no opening book (and no tablebases).

For the last two games, Nakamura will play by himself (no help from Rybka), but he will have move-and-pawn odds against Stockfish. Specifically, he will play as white both games, and Stockfish will play black with one pawn removed. The pawn to be removed will be selected at random by rolling an 8-sided die before each of the two games. The time control will be the same as the first two games.

The actual games will be played on a physical chess board; I'll be making the moves on behalf of Stockfish.

We will be broadcasting the games live on chess.com, but we'd also like to invite any of you to attend the match in person, where you'll be able to see real-time mirrored feeds from both of the two computers, watch Nakamura play live, and interact with him and other chess fans.

The event is next Saturday (August 23) in Hillsborough, California (just a bit south of San Francisco). If you'd like to come, please RSVP here:

https://www.facebook.com/events/312975918877354/

We'll have complimentary snacks, lunch, and drinks.

In the meantime, feel free to vote on who you think will win the match!
Thank you again... !

I have no patience to the final results of this interesting duel...

Btw,
If Nakamura will use a very well-optimized strong book for Rybka 3,
Then I expect to see almost equal performance ...

To be honest (in case of serious matches),
Engines should not be tested without pawns or without books,
because (depending on speed hardware, hashtable size, time control etc..) they are repeating and playing almost same games...
and a good memorized GM can remember the previous played games and of course later can make draws even against top engines ;)



Keep up he good work,
Sedat
He dosen't have to be a GM Sedat ....

A 30-40 games against the chess engine making the same moves will be more than enough for a guy like you or me to hold the silicon beast to a draw :wink:
Dr.D
Is is based on experience?
I did not try it and I do not find it interesting to try it to see if I can get a draw by that way.

It is clear that stockfish with 8 cores is also not deterministic and may choose different moves in different games so it is possible that the number of lines that I need to memorize to get a draw is too big for my memory.
To be honest with you Uri,I didn't try it but I'm pretty much sure it's achievable....

Stockfish,or any chess engine for that matter that doesn't benifit from a learting feature,using one core will produce the same moves over and over again....

The MP version however will not be deterministic as you mentioned above the variety of moves will expand at a staggeraing rates....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

rcmaddox
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:59 pm
Location: Winder, GA
Full name: Robert C. Maddox

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by rcmaddox » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:43 pm

bhlangonijr wrote:
Adam Hair wrote:
I would prefer to see a time odds match also.
+1
I might more enjoy Nakamura vs. Chess Tiger 2007.1, or some other antique, playing straight up without any kind of assistance or handicap at all. Otherwise, what's next? Two pawn handicaps - or a knight, maybe? Actually, what I really want to see is a top GM (like Nakamura) play a ten game match against one of the top three with no handicap. Why not? Because the GM will lose? We know (or think we know) that going in. But I'd really like to see this apparent 300-500 (?) elo disparity demonstrated OTB, in normal chess. NOT Chess 960, because I think that further favors the engine.

But like others I'm pleased these matches are happening and will be watching Saturday.

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reflectionofpower
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: USA

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by reflectionofpower » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:47 pm

rcmaddox wrote:
bhlangonijr wrote:
Adam Hair wrote:
I would prefer to see a time odds match also.
+1
I might more enjoy Nakamura vs. Chess Tiger 2007.1, or some other antique, playing straight up without any kind of assistance or handicap at all.
CT 2007 or some other speculative enigne would be much more exciting and straight up chess, no variations. Maybe Deep Junior 13,Virtruvius 1.11_HEM or Chiron 2.0?
"Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." (Dune - 1984)

Lonnie

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reflectionofpower
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:28 pm
Location: USA

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by reflectionofpower » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:29 pm

I was just perusing these games with Vitruvius 1.11_HEM and it found mistakes on winner & loser's end. The programs & hardware of today cannot be matched against. They are stronger than humans.

[pgn]
[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.06"]
[Round "5.2"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Black "Topalov, Veselin"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2760"]
[BlackElo "2772"]
[ECO "D37"]
[Opening "QGD"]
[Variation "4.Nf3"]
[WhiteTeam "Russia"]
[BlackTeam "Bulgaria"]
[WhiteFideId "4101588"]
[BlackFideId "2900084"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. g3 O-O 6. Bg2 Nbd7 7. Qd3 Nb6 8. c5
Nbd7 9. O-O c6 10. b4 b6 11. Bf4 a5 12. a3 Ba6 13. Qc2 Nh5 14. Bd2 Nhf6 15. Bf4
Nh5 16. Bd2 Nhf6 17. Rfe1 Bc4 18. Bf4 Nh5 19. Be3 Nhf6 20. Bf4 Nh5 21. Be3 Nhf6
22. h3 h6 23. Nd2 Ba6 24. f4 bxc5 25. bxc5 Nxc5 26. dxc5 d4 27. Bf2 dxc3 28.
Qxc3 Nd5 29. Qc2 Bf6 30. e4 Bxa1 31. exd5 Qf6 32. d6 Qc3 33. Qd1 Bb2 34. Bxc6
Rad8 35. Nb1 Qf6 36. Qd2 Rb8 37. Be4 e5 38. Nc3 Qe6 39. Nd5 Qxh3 40. Bg2 Qh5 41.
d7 exf4 42. Qxf4 Bxa3 43. Qxb8 Rxb8 44. Re8+ Kh7 45. Rxb8 Qd1+ 46. Kh2 Qh5+ 47.
Bh3 Qf3 48. d8=Q Qxf2+ 49. Bg2 1-0
[/pgn]

[pgn]
[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.10"]
[Round "8.10"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Black "Vallejo Pons, Francisco"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2760"]
[BlackElo "2698"]
[ECO "D37"]
[Opening "QGD"]
[Variation "4.Nf3"]
[WhiteTeam "Russia"]
[BlackTeam "Spain"]
[WhiteFideId "4101588"]
[BlackFideId "2205530"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 dxc4 5. e4 Bb4 6. Bg5 c5 7. Bxc4 cxd4 8.
Nxd4 Qa5 9. Bd2 Qc5 10. Bb5+ Bd7 11. Nb3 Qc7 12. Rc1 Nc6 13. O-O O-O 14. Qe2
Rfd8 15. Bg5 Be7 16. Be3 a6 17. Bd3 Be8 18. f4 Ng4 19. Qxg4 Rxd3 20. Bf2 Qd8 21.
e5 Nb4 22. Nc5 Rd2 23. N3e4 Rxb2 24. Rfd1 Nd5 25. Nf6+ Bxf6 26. exf6 g6 27. Bd4
Rxa2 28. Qh4 Bc6 29. Ne4 Re2 30. Ng3 Nxf4 31. Qxf4 Qd5 32. Ne4 Qxe4 33. Qxe4
Rxe4 34. Bb6 g5 35. Rd2 h6 36. Bd8 a5 37. Be7 a4 38. Rc3 Kh7 39. h3 Kg6 40. Kh2
Rf4 0-1
[/pgn]

[pgn]
[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.05"]
[Round "4.3"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Carlsen, Magnus"]
[Black "Wojtaszek, Radoslaw"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2877"]
[BlackElo "2735"]
[ECO "B26"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Variation "closed, 6.Be3"]
[WhiteTeam "Norway"]
[BlackTeam "Poland"]
[WhiteFideId "1503014"]
[BlackFideId "1118358"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 d6 3. g3 Nc6 4. Bg2 g6 5. d3 Bg7 6. Be3 e5 7. Nh3 Nge7 8. f4 Nd4
9. O-O O-O 10. Qd2 Bd7 11. Nd1 Qc8 12. Ndf2 Ndc6 13. c3 b5 14. fxe5 Nxe5 15. Bh6
N7c6 16. Bxg7 Kxg7 17. Nf4 Qd8 18. Rad1 Rc8 19. Qe2 h5 20. d4 cxd4 21. cxd4 Ng4
22. h3 Nxf2 23. Qxf2 Ne7 24. Rd3 b4 25. Rf3 Qe8 26. g4 hxg4 27. hxg4 Bb5 28. Re1
Qd8 29. g5 Qb6 30. Bh3 Rcd8 31. Be6 Be8 32. Nd5 Nxd5 33. Bxd5 1-0
[/pgn]

[pgn]
[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.09"]
[Round "7.3"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Carlsen, Magnus"]
[Black "Naiditsch, Arkadij"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2877"]
[BlackElo "2709"]
[ECO "E21"]
[Opening "Nimzo-Indian"]
[Variation "three knights variation"]
[WhiteTeam "Norway"]
[BlackTeam "Germany"]
[WhiteFideId "1503014"]
[BlackFideId "4650891"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Nf3 c5 5. g3 O-O 6. Bg2 cxd4 7. Nxd4 d5 8. cxd5
Nxd5 9. Qb3 Nc6 10. Nxc6 bxc6 11. O-O Qa5 12. Ne4 Ba6 13. Qc2 h6 14. a3 Be7 15.
b4 Qb5 16. Re1 Qc4 17. Qb2 c5 18. Nxc5 Bf6 19. Qa2 Rac8 20. e4 Nc3 21. Qxc4 Bxc4
22. e5 Be7 23. Bd2 Ne2+ 24. Kh1 Nd4 25. Rac1 Bd5 26. Bxd5 exd5 27. Nd7 Rxc1 28.
Rxc1 Rd8 29. Nc5 Bxc5 30. Rxc5 Nf3 31. Bc3 g5 32. h3 h5 33. Kg2 g4 34. b5 Rd7
35. Rc8+ Kh7 36. Ba5 d4 37. hxg4 hxg4 38. e6 fxe6 39. Rc7 Rxc7 40. Bxc7 d3 41.
Kf1 Nd4 42. Ke1 Nxb5 43. Bb8 Nxa3 44. Kd2 a5 45. Kxd3 Kg6 46. Ke4 a4 47. Be5 Nc4
48. Bc3 a3 49. Kf4 Kh5 50. f3 e5+ 51. Ke4 Nd6+ 52. Ke3 Kg5 53. fxg4 e4 54. Kd2
Nb5 55. Be5 Kxg4 56. Ke3 Kf5 57. Ba1 Nd6 58. Kd2 Kg4 59. Ke3 a2 60. Bc3 Kxg3 61.
Ba1 Kg4 62. Kd2 Kf3 0-1
[/pgn]

[pgn]
[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.06"]
[Round "5.2"]
[Board "3"]
[White "Karjakin, Sergey"]
[Black "Iotov, Valentin"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2786"]
[BlackElo "2553"]
[ECO "B01"]
[Opening "Scandinavian (centre counter) defence"]
[WhiteTeam "Russia"]
[BlackTeam "Bulgaria"]
[WhiteFideId "14109603"]
[BlackFideId "2906074"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Bg4 6. h3 Bxf3 7. Qxf3 c6 8.
Qd3 e6 9. Be2 Nbd7 10. O-O Bd6 11. Bg5 Qc7 12. Ne4 Bh2+ 13. Kh1 Bf4 14. Nxf6+
Nxf6 15. Bxf6 gxf6 16. c4 O-O-O 17. Bf3 Kb8 18. Rad1 h5 19. b4 Rd7 20. b5 c5 21.
d5 Be5 22. Rde1 h4 23. a4 Qa5 24. Qa3 Qd2 25. Re3 Qb4 26. Qa2 exd5 27. Rd3 Rhd8
28. Rc1 dxc4 29. Rxd7 Rxd7 30. Qc2 c3 31. Rd1 Qb2 32. Be4 Rd2 33. Rxd2 cxd2 34.
Qd1 Qd4 0-1
[/pgn]

[pgn]
[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.08"]
[Round "6.5"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Kasimdzhanov, Rustam"]
[Black "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2700"]
[BlackElo "2760"]
[ECO "D37"]
[Opening "QGD"]
[Variation "4.Nf3"]
[WhiteTeam "Uzbekistan"]
[BlackTeam "Russia"]
[WhiteFideId "14200244"]
[BlackFideId "4101588"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Nbd7 5. Bf4 dxc4 6. e3 Bd6 7. Bxd6 cxd6 8.
Bxc4 a6 9. a4 d5 10. Bd3 b6 11. O-O O-O 12. Qb3 Qe7 13. Rac1 Bb7 14. Rc2 Rfc8
15. Rfc1 Qd6 16. Ne5 Nxe5 17. dxe5 Qxe5 18. Qxb6 Rcb8 19. Ne2 Nd7 20. Qd4 Qd6
21. f4 e5 22. fxe5 Nxe5 23. Qf4 Qe7 24. Rc7 Qe8 25. Bf5 Nc4 26. Bd7 Qf8 27. b3
Nb6 28. Bf5 d4 29. Rxf7 Kxf7 30. Bxh7+ 1-0
[/pgn]

[pgn]
[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.12"]
[Round "10.5"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Topalov, Veselin"]
[Black "Wojtaszek, Radoslaw"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2772"]
[BlackElo "2735"]
[ECO "B90"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Variation "Najdorf, Byrne (English) attack"]
[WhiteTeam "Bulgaria"]
[BlackTeam "Poland"]
[WhiteFideId "2900084"]
[BlackFideId "1118358"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8. f3
Nbd7 9. g4 b5 10. g5 b4 11. Nd5 Nxd5 12. exd5 Bf5 13. Bd3 Bxd3 14. Qxd3 Be7 15.
h4 O-O 16. a3 bxa3 17. Rxa3 a5 18. Qb5 Qc7 19. Nxa5 Rfb8 20. Qc6 Qxc6 21. dxc6
d5 22. Ra2 Bd8 23. cxd7 Rxa5 24. Rxa5 Bxa5+ 25. Ke2 d4 26. Bd2 Bd8 27. Kd3 f6
28. f4 Rxb2 29. fxe5 fxe5 30. Ra1 Rb8 31. Ke4 Kf7 32. Kxe5 Rb7 33. Rf1+ Ke7 34.
g6 Rb5+ 35. Kxd4 Bb6+ 36. Kc4 Rc5+ 37. Kb3 Kxd7 38. Rf7+ Ke6 39. Rxg7 1-0
[/pgn]


[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.06"]
[Round "5.2"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Black "Topalov, Veselin"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2760"]
[BlackElo "2772"]
[ECO "D37"]
[Opening "QGD"]
[Variation "4.Nf3"]
[WhiteTeam "Russia"]
[BlackTeam "Bulgaria"]
[WhiteFideId "4101588"]
[BlackFideId "2900084"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Be7 5. g3 O-O 6. Bg2 Nbd7 7. Qd3 Nb6 8. c5
Nbd7 9. O-O c6 10. b4 b6 11. Bf4 a5 12. a3 Ba6 13. Qc2 Nh5 14. Bd2 Nhf6 15. Bf4
Nh5 16. Bd2 Nhf6 17. Rfe1 Bc4 18. Bf4 Nh5 19. Be3 Nhf6 20. Bf4 Nh5 21. Be3 Nhf6
22. h3 h6 23. Nd2 Ba6 24. f4 bxc5 25. bxc5 Nxc5 26. dxc5 d4 27. Bf2 dxc3 28.
Qxc3 Nd5 29. Qc2 Bf6 30. e4 Bxa1 31. exd5 Qf6 32. d6 Qc3 33. Qd1 Bb2 34. Bxc6
Rad8 35. Nb1 Qf6 36. Qd2 Rb8 37. Be4 e5 38. Nc3 Qe6 39. Nd5 Qxh3 40. Bg2 Qh5 41.
d7 exf4 42. Qxf4 Bxa3 43. Qxb8 Rxb8 44. Re8+ Kh7 45. Rxb8 Qd1+ 46. Kh2 Qh5+ 47.
Bh3 Qf3 48. d8=Q Qxf2+ 49. Bg2 1-0

[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.10"]
[Round "8.10"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Black "Vallejo Pons, Francisco"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2760"]
[BlackElo "2698"]
[ECO "D37"]
[Opening "QGD"]
[Variation "4.Nf3"]
[WhiteTeam "Russia"]
[BlackTeam "Spain"]
[WhiteFideId "4101588"]
[BlackFideId "2205530"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 dxc4 5. e4 Bb4 6. Bg5 c5 7. Bxc4 cxd4 8.
Nxd4 Qa5 9. Bd2 Qc5 10. Bb5+ Bd7 11. Nb3 Qc7 12. Rc1 Nc6 13. O-O O-O 14. Qe2
Rfd8 15. Bg5 Be7 16. Be3 a6 17. Bd3 Be8 18. f4 Ng4 19. Qxg4 Rxd3 20. Bf2 Qd8 21.
e5 Nb4 22. Nc5 Rd2 23. N3e4 Rxb2 24. Rfd1 Nd5 25. Nf6+ Bxf6 26. exf6 g6 27. Bd4
Rxa2 28. Qh4 Bc6 29. Ne4 Re2 30. Ng3 Nxf4 31. Qxf4 Qd5 32. Ne4 Qxe4 33. Qxe4
Rxe4 34. Bb6 g5 35. Rd2 h6 36. Bd8 a5 37. Be7 a4 38. Rc3 Kh7 39. h3 Kg6 40. Kh2
Rf4 0-1

[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.05"]
[Round "4.3"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Carlsen, Magnus"]
[Black "Wojtaszek, Radoslaw"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2877"]
[BlackElo "2735"]
[ECO "B26"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Variation "closed, 6.Be3"]
[WhiteTeam "Norway"]
[BlackTeam "Poland"]
[WhiteFideId "1503014"]
[BlackFideId "1118358"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 d6 3. g3 Nc6 4. Bg2 g6 5. d3 Bg7 6. Be3 e5 7. Nh3 Nge7 8. f4 Nd4
9. O-O O-O 10. Qd2 Bd7 11. Nd1 Qc8 12. Ndf2 Ndc6 13. c3 b5 14. fxe5 Nxe5 15. Bh6
N7c6 16. Bxg7 Kxg7 17. Nf4 Qd8 18. Rad1 Rc8 19. Qe2 h5 20. d4 cxd4 21. cxd4 Ng4
22. h3 Nxf2 23. Qxf2 Ne7 24. Rd3 b4 25. Rf3 Qe8 26. g4 hxg4 27. hxg4 Bb5 28. Re1
Qd8 29. g5 Qb6 30. Bh3 Rcd8 31. Be6 Be8 32. Nd5 Nxd5 33. Bxd5 1-0

[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.09"]
[Round "7.3"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Carlsen, Magnus"]
[Black "Naiditsch, Arkadij"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2877"]
[BlackElo "2709"]
[ECO "E21"]
[Opening "Nimzo-Indian"]
[Variation "three knights variation"]
[WhiteTeam "Norway"]
[BlackTeam "Germany"]
[WhiteFideId "1503014"]
[BlackFideId "4650891"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. Nf3 c5 5. g3 O-O 6. Bg2 cxd4 7. Nxd4 d5 8. cxd5
Nxd5 9. Qb3 Nc6 10. Nxc6 bxc6 11. O-O Qa5 12. Ne4 Ba6 13. Qc2 h6 14. a3 Be7 15.
b4 Qb5 16. Re1 Qc4 17. Qb2 c5 18. Nxc5 Bf6 19. Qa2 Rac8 20. e4 Nc3 21. Qxc4 Bxc4
22. e5 Be7 23. Bd2 Ne2+ 24. Kh1 Nd4 25. Rac1 Bd5 26. Bxd5 exd5 27. Nd7 Rxc1 28.
Rxc1 Rd8 29. Nc5 Bxc5 30. Rxc5 Nf3 31. Bc3 g5 32. h3 h5 33. Kg2 g4 34. b5 Rd7
35. Rc8+ Kh7 36. Ba5 d4 37. hxg4 hxg4 38. e6 fxe6 39. Rc7 Rxc7 40. Bxc7 d3 41.
Kf1 Nd4 42. Ke1 Nxb5 43. Bb8 Nxa3 44. Kd2 a5 45. Kxd3 Kg6 46. Ke4 a4 47. Be5 Nc4
48. Bc3 a3 49. Kf4 Kh5 50. f3 e5+ 51. Ke4 Nd6+ 52. Ke3 Kg5 53. fxg4 e4 54. Kd2
Nb5 55. Be5 Kxg4 56. Ke3 Kf5 57. Ba1 Nd6 58. Kd2 Kg4 59. Ke3 a2 60. Bc3 Kxg3 61.
Ba1 Kg4 62. Kd2 Kf3 0-1

[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.06"]
[Round "5.2"]
[Board "3"]
[White "Karjakin, Sergey"]
[Black "Iotov, Valentin"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2786"]
[BlackElo "2553"]
[ECO "B01"]
[Opening "Scandinavian (centre counter) defence"]
[WhiteTeam "Russia"]
[BlackTeam "Bulgaria"]
[WhiteFideId "14109603"]
[BlackFideId "2906074"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qd8 4. d4 Nf6 5. Nf3 Bg4 6. h3 Bxf3 7. Qxf3 c6 8.
Qd3 e6 9. Be2 Nbd7 10. O-O Bd6 11. Bg5 Qc7 12. Ne4 Bh2+ 13. Kh1 Bf4 14. Nxf6+
Nxf6 15. Bxf6 gxf6 16. c4 O-O-O 17. Bf3 Kb8 18. Rad1 h5 19. b4 Rd7 20. b5 c5 21.
d5 Be5 22. Rde1 h4 23. a4 Qa5 24. Qa3 Qd2 25. Re3 Qb4 26. Qa2 exd5 27. Rd3 Rhd8
28. Rc1 dxc4 29. Rxd7 Rxd7 30. Qc2 c3 31. Rd1 Qb2 32. Be4 Rd2 33. Rxd2 cxd2 34.
Qd1 Qd4 0-1

[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.08"]
[Round "6.5"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Kasimdzhanov, Rustam"]
[Black "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2700"]
[BlackElo "2760"]
[ECO "D37"]
[Opening "QGD"]
[Variation "4.Nf3"]
[WhiteTeam "Uzbekistan"]
[BlackTeam "Russia"]
[WhiteFideId "14200244"]
[BlackFideId "4101588"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Nbd7 5. Bf4 dxc4 6. e3 Bd6 7. Bxd6 cxd6 8.
Bxc4 a6 9. a4 d5 10. Bd3 b6 11. O-O O-O 12. Qb3 Qe7 13. Rac1 Bb7 14. Rc2 Rfc8
15. Rfc1 Qd6 16. Ne5 Nxe5 17. dxe5 Qxe5 18. Qxb6 Rcb8 19. Ne2 Nd7 20. Qd4 Qd6
21. f4 e5 22. fxe5 Nxe5 23. Qf4 Qe7 24. Rc7 Qe8 25. Bf5 Nc4 26. Bd7 Qf8 27. b3
Nb6 28. Bf5 d4 29. Rxf7 Kxf7 30. Bxh7+ 1-0

[Event "41st Olympiad Open 2014"]
[Site "Tromso NOR"]
[Date "2014.08.12"]
[Round "10.5"]
[Board "1"]
[White "Topalov, Veselin"]
[Black "Wojtaszek, Radoslaw"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteTitle "GM"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[WhiteElo "2772"]
[BlackElo "2735"]
[ECO "B90"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Variation "Najdorf, Byrne (English) attack"]
[WhiteTeam "Bulgaria"]
[BlackTeam "Poland"]
[WhiteFideId "2900084"]
[BlackFideId "1118358"]
[EventDate "2014.08.02"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 8. f3
Nbd7 9. g4 b5 10. g5 b4 11. Nd5 Nxd5 12. exd5 Bf5 13. Bd3 Bxd3 14. Qxd3 Be7 15.
h4 O-O 16. a3 bxa3 17. Rxa3 a5 18. Qb5 Qc7 19. Nxa5 Rfb8 20. Qc6 Qxc6 21. dxc6
d5 22. Ra2 Bd8 23. cxd7 Rxa5 24. Rxa5 Bxa5+ 25. Ke2 d4 26. Bd2 Bd8 27. Kd3 f6
28. f4 Rxb2 29. fxe5 fxe5 30. Ra1 Rb8 31. Ke4 Kf7 32. Kxe5 Rb7 33. Rf1+ Ke7 34.
g6 Rb5+ 35. Kxd4 Bb6+ 36. Kc4 Rc5+ 37. Kb3 Kxd7 38. Rf7+ Ke6 39. Rxg7 1-0
"Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." (Dune - 1984)

Lonnie

Sedat Canbaz
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:58 am
Location: Antalya/Turkey
Contact:

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Sedat Canbaz » Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:22 pm

Uri Blass wrote: It is clear that stockfish with 8 cores is also not deterministic and may choose different moves in different games so it is possible that the number of lines that I need to memorize to get a draw is too big for my memory.
Dear Uri,

Actually this issue is not so hard as it looks

There is a possibility to be beat many top engines (in case of handicapped games e.g without pawn) and I will try to explain you:


For examples,
A human chess player (2700 Elo above) with a good memory can learn from the top engines
I mean, human can train (learn,copy...from the ideas of the top chess engines) in his own private testings
And it is not required to memory the full played pgn database, but it is very important to memory the first 10-20 moves
In other words, when GM will get the advantage ...then the game is over !!
Note also that even in MP testing and at slow time controls, the Top engines do not prefer a lot of various moves up to 15-20 moves

Simply what is needed:
To momory the first 15-20 moves (totaly minus plus 40-50 moves in case of diffrent playing moves)...
And then any strong human player have big chances to draw and even to beat many top engines (including Stockfish)

But under SCCT conditions (My Challenge) is very very very hard...
SCCT Authors participate always with new decent updated strong books ...that's why we can't see any GM )

Uri Blass
Posts: 8975
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:37 pm
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

Post by Uri Blass » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:08 am

reflectionofpower wrote:I was just perusing these games with Vitruvius 1.11_HEM and it found mistakes on winner & loser's end. The programs & hardware of today cannot be matched against. They are stronger than humans.
No surprise.
When you choose games when you know that there was a mistake(otherwise the result is a draw) you find mistakes.

I agree that chess engines are stronger than humans but analyzing human games by engines is no proof for it espacially when the humans have no motivation to play in anti-computer style against humans and did not try to get a position that the computer does not understand.

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