Nakamura vs Stockfish, public match 8/23

[Sedat Canbaz]

Note: Shredder includes different old versions (as far I remember Shredder 6, Shredder 7, Shredder 8, Shredder 9)

Probably the latest Shredder 12 is expecting to be performed much better against GMs

For example, CEGT 40/4
Shredder 12 x64 1CPU 2800 Elo
Shredder 9.1 1CPU 2539 Elo

Elo Difference: 261 Elo

And unfortunately CEGT rated Shredder 9.1 around 2500 Elo
Is this values are true in reality, I mean Shredder 9.1 is weaker than Top GMs ???

But if we look at the crosstable, we see 260 Elo in favor for the old versions of Shredder

Really...there are a lot of wrong things in our life...sad, but true !

Computer rating list is not supposed to give rating against humans
and it is impossible for rating lists to do it because difference in rating is not equivalent.

If program A is 800 elo stronger than program B in computer rating list then it is probably clearly less than 800 elo stronger against humans.

Uri,

Sorry...I don't care about A...B...C...

And if we will follow your views...the starting Elo calculation should be from 0 )))

So..my recommendation is that:
-Chess Engine Elo points should be rated at near Elo points to Humans

Otherwise...those ratings lead to misunderstandings..., no more no less !!))

[Dirt]

Sorry...I don't care about A...B...C...

And if we will follow your views...the starting Elo calculation should be from 0 )))

So..my recommendation is that:
-Chess Engine Elo points should be rated at near Elo points to Humans

Otherwise...those ratings lead to misunderstandings..., no more no less !!))

Either Shredder 9.1 or Shredder 12 will have the wrong Elo as measured against humans, or the difference between the two (the one thing we can measure well) will be wrong.

Rating lists have tried the zero based Elo approach, but people complained about that.

[Sedat Canbaz]

Rating lists have tried the zero based Elo approach, but people complained about that.

I think some people enjoy complaining almost as much as they enjoy doing nothing about it

Best,
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

My 6th sense says that some chess friends still have difficulties to understand...so once more I will try to help:

Code: Select all

Rank Name                            Elo    +    -  games score oppo. draws
     1.Machine 2000-2007             2903   19   19   390   74%  2774   34%
     2.Kasparov, Garry               2850   18   18   628   61%  2776   56%
     3.Anand, Viswanathan            2836   10   10  1996   62%  2754   53%
     4.Kramnik, Vladimir             2829   11   11  1602   60%  2762   56%
     5.Ivanchuk, Vassily             2802   10   10  2254   59%  2744   53%
     6.Aronian, Levon                2797   15   15   887   57%  2748   54%
     7.Topalov, Veselin              2795   12   12  1377   55%  2758   47%
     8.Karpov, Anatoly               2792   10   10  2186   60%  2727   53%
     9.Morozevich, Alexander         2788   15   15   987   56%  2741   37%
    10.Grischuk, Alexander           2785   15   15   909   57%  2736   51%
    11.Carlsen, Magnus               2784   16   16   797   56%  2743   49%
    12.Svidler, Peter                2783   12   12  1337   57%  2738   55%
    13.Gelfand, Boris                2779   11   11  1828   55%  2744   56%
    14.Shirov, Alexei                2779   17   17   729   48%  2795   50%
    15.Leko, Peter                   2775   12   12  1286   52%  2760   63%
    16.Ponomariov, Ruslan            2771   16   16   743   54%  2740   53%
    17.Adams, Michael                2769   11   11  1561   56%  2730   53%
    18.Mamedyarov, Shakhriyar        2768   19   19   558   56%  2726   51%
    19.Radjabov, Teimour             2766   16   16   735   53%  2747   59%
    20.Fischer, Robert James         2763   23   23   408   65%  2656   41% 

* Machines 2000-2007 = games played between 2000 up to 2007 years
* Machines = based on different chess engines mainly played by:
- Fritz, Shredder, Junior, Hiarcs, Rebel,Chess Tiger...
* All Machine 2000-2007's 390 games are played only against GMs

More Details:
So as base year 2004 sounds good, what is left, we need to compare:
-The hardware speed improvement since 2004 up to 2014
-The Engine Elo improvement since 2004 up to 2014
-The opening book Elo improvement since 2004 up to 2014

From my own experience I can say:
- there is at least 1000 Elo total improvement (since 2004 up to 2014)

Since 2007,
I started to organize serious book competitions, where I noticed 250-300 Elo difference even in books

Note also in that long period of time (since 2000 up to this date),
I run many hardware speed tournaments....a data which is based on thousands of games
And I noticed that there is 350 Elo hardware speed improvement since 2004 up to 2014

Even I can't imagine,
How many hardware chess benchmarks I received so far ...probably more than 1000 benchmarks

And what my experience showed me,
There is at least 500 Elo between the Top 5 engines vs GMs of 2800 Elo

So my estimation on i7 980X with well - optimized book:
- Stockfish 250814aMZ x64 6c: Blitz 3550 Elo / Slow: 3500 Elo
- Shredder 9.1 1c: Blitz 2800 Elo / Slow: 2750 Elo
- Shredder 12 x64 1c : Blitz 3050 Elo / Slow: 3000 Elo
- Shredder 12 x64 6c : Blitz 3150 Elo / Slow: 3100 Elo


This should be mentioned too, almost all of the commentators have never:
1)Created any rating to be based only on Machines vs GMs games so far
2)Created any hardware chess benchmark list so far
3)Created any chess engine rating list to be based on engines in 2004 till nowadays
4)Run any opening book tournament so far
5)Run any hardware speed tournament so far
etc and etc...

And after all,
It does mean that I am right...but I have a solution to see that I am right or wrong:
- Challenge (I am ready even without prize, even against 2400 Elo or 2500 Elo human players, let's say I will use Yace 0.99.87) )!

SORRY that I can not do any more... !!!

Have a nice weekend,
Sedat

[Sedat Canbaz]

EDIT:It does not mean that I am right...