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asanjuan
Posts: 214Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:38 pmLocation: Seville, Spain
Post by asanjuan Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:49 am
MagnersCarlsbergsen wrote: Chess engines lack a certain elegance to their moves, because they're engines, not humans, and don't have the capacity to be as strategic. They may appear strategic, but that's only through brute-force calculation.
Hi all,
I would like to see one of Rhetoric's games, highlighting some move that has surprised you. I would like to publish it on my web page, in the "style" section.
Can anyone provide me an example? Since I'm a weak player, my own games aren't suited for this purpose, I am easily crushed by Rhetoric game after game and I feel that all of you are better players than me.
Thanks in advance
Still learning how to play chess...
Henryval
Posts: 48Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:47 pmLocation: Germany
Post by Henryval Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:37 pm
hi alberto,
You asked for games to show the style of rhetoric
14/14 ply against komodo 8
Code: Select all
[Event "joecoach-PC, 14 Ply / 14 Ply"]
[Site "joecoach-PC"]
[Date "2014.09.23"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Rhetoric 1.4.1 x64"]
[Black "Komodo 8 64-bit"]
[ECO "E05"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. c4 {0.00/0 0s} e6 {0.00/0 0s} 2. g3 {0.00/0 0s} d5
{0.00/0 0s} 3. Bg2 {0.00/0 0s} Nf6 {0.00/0 0s} 4. d4
{0.00/0 0s} Be7 {0.00/0 0s} 5. Nf3 {0.00/0 0s} O-O {0.00/0
0s} 6. O-O {0.00/0 0s} dxc4 {0.00/0 0s} 7. Ne5 {0.00/0 0s}
c5 {0.00/0 0s} 8. dxc5 {0.00/0 0s} Qc7 {0.00/0 0s} 9. Nxc4
{0.00/0 0s} Qxc5 {0.00/0 0s} 10. b3 {0.00/0 0s} Rd8 {0.00/0
0s} 11. Nbd2 {0.00/0 0s } Nc6 {0.00/0 0s} 12. Ba3 {0.00/0
0s} Nb4 {0.00/0 0s} 13. Bb2 {0.00/0 0s Beide letzter
Buchzug} Qc7 {-0.36/14 2s} 14. a3 {+0.60/14 6s (Se5)} Nc6
{-0.40/14 1s} 15. Rc1 {+0.60/14 1s (Dc2)} Bd7 {-0.41/14 2s
(a5)} 16. e4 {+0.95/14 11s (b4)} Be8 {-0.57/14 2s (e5)}
17. e5 {+1.15/14 3s} Nd7 {-0.73/14 1s} 18. b4 {+1.25/14 6s}
a6 {-0.71/14 1s (f5)} 19. Re1 {+1.36/14 8s (Db3)} Nb6
{-0.66/14 2s (f5)} 20. Qg4 {+1.55/14 5s (De2)} Rd7
{-0.98/14 4s (Sxc4)} 21. Ne4 {+1.70/14 9s (Sxb6)} Nxc4
{-0.82/14 2s} 22. Nf6+ {+1.72/14 8s (Txc4)} Kh8 {-0.71/14
0s (Lxf6)} 23. Rxc4 {+5.16/14 1:14m (Sxe8)} Rad8 {-2.34/14
2s (Dxe5)} 24. Qh5 {+12.14/14 15s (Sxd7)} h6 {-3.81/14 1s
(Lxf6) resigns} 25. Rg4 {Mate in 8} 1-0
Don't let Your tricky mind kick You out of paradise!
Guenther
Posts: 4605Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:33 amLocation: Regensburg, GermanyFull name: Guenther Simon
Post by Guenther Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:45 pm
Henryval wrote: hi alberto,
You asked for games to show the style of rhetoric
14/14 ply against komodo 8
Code: Select all
[Event "joecoach-PC, 14 Ply / 14 Ply"]
[Site "joecoach-PC"]
[Date "2014.09.23"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Rhetoric 1.4.1 x64"]
[Black "Komodo 8 64-bit"]
[ECO "E05"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. c4 {0.00/0 0s} e6 {0.00/0 0s} 2. g3 {0.00/0 0s} d5
{0.00/0 0s} 3. Bg2 {0.00/0 0s} Nf6 {0.00/0 0s} 4. d4
{0.00/0 0s} Be7 {0.00/0 0s} 5. Nf3 {0.00/0 0s} O-O {0.00/0
0s} 6. O-O {0.00/0 0s} dxc4 {0.00/0 0s} 7. Ne5 {0.00/0 0s}
c5 {0.00/0 0s} 8. dxc5 {0.00/0 0s} Qc7 {0.00/0 0s} 9. Nxc4
{0.00/0 0s} Qxc5 {0.00/0 0s} 10. b3 {0.00/0 0s} Rd8 {0.00/0
0s} 11. Nbd2 {0.00/0 0s } Nc6 {0.00/0 0s} 12. Ba3 {0.00/0
0s} Nb4 {0.00/0 0s} 13. Bb2 {0.00/0 0s Beide letzter
Buchzug} Qc7 {-0.36/14 2s} 14. a3 {+0.60/14 6s (Se5)} Nc6
{-0.40/14 1s} 15. Rc1 {+0.60/14 1s (Dc2)} Bd7 {-0.41/14 2s
(a5)} 16. e4 {+0.95/14 11s (b4)} Be8 {-0.57/14 2s (e5)}
17. e5 {+1.15/14 3s} Nd7 {-0.73/14 1s} 18. b4 {+1.25/14 6s}
a6 {-0.71/14 1s (f5)} 19. Re1 {+1.36/14 8s (Db3)} Nb6
{-0.66/14 2s (f5)} 20. Qg4 {+1.55/14 5s (De2)} Rd7
{-0.98/14 4s (Sxc4)} 21. Ne4 {+1.70/14 9s (Sxb6)} Nxc4
{-0.82/14 2s} 22. Nf6+ {+1.72/14 8s (Txc4)} Kh8 {-0.71/14
0s (Lxf6)} 23. Rxc4 {+5.16/14 1:14m (Sxe8)} Rad8 {-2.34/14
2s (Dxe5)} 24. Qh5 {+12.14/14 15s (Sxd7)} h6 {-3.81/14 1s
(Lxf6) resigns} 25. Rg4 {Mate in 8} 1-0
Not that it questions to show Rhetorics style in the given game,
but still a bit nitpicking.
You know that one mans ply is another mans lie?
IOW it gives no fair match to just set the same depth - look
at the move times! If you know this no problem...
Guenther
MagnersCarlsbergsen
Posts: 16Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:46 am
Post by MagnersCarlsbergsen Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:51 pm
Pitted my friend against Rhetoric just now. He's rated around 1800.
Look at this beautiful checkmate in 26 moves! Knight sacrifice at 15. Kxd5 blew the game open, but highlight has moves 25 and 26. Black thought he had won the game and then that checkmate came out of nowhere.
Here's a link to view the game online and I've also pasted the PGN.
http://chessmicrobase.com/g/ncju1dqr
Code: Select all
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "2014.09.23"]
[Round ""]
[White "Rhetoric"]
[Black "DiegoUruguay"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D02"]
[Opening "Reti: 1...d5"]
1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 c5 5. Be2 Nc6 6. O-O Be7 7. a4 O-O 8. a5
Nxa5 9. b3 Nc6 10. Bb2 Bd7 11. Ne5 Be8 12. Qd3 Nxe5 13. dxe5 Nd7 14. f4 f5 15.
Nxd5 exd5 16. Qxd5+ Kh8 17. Qxb7 Qb6 18. Qxa8 Bh5 19. Qd5 Bxe2 20. Qxd7 Bxf1
21. Qxe7 Rd8 22. Rxa7 Rg8 23. Qxg7+ Rxg7 24. Ra8+ Rg8 25. e6# 1-0[/url]
MagnersCarlsbergsen
Posts: 16Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:46 am
Post by MagnersCarlsbergsen Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:54 pm
MagnersCarlsbergsen wrote: Pitted my friend against Rhetoric just now. He's rated around 1800.
Look at this beautiful checkmate in 26 moves! Knight sacrifice at 15. Kxd5 blew the game open, but highlight has moves 25 and 26. Black thought he had won the game and then that checkmate came out of nowhere.
Here's a link to view the game online and I've also pasted the PGN.
http://chessmicrobase.com/g/ncju1dqr
Code: Select all
[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "2014.09.23"]
[Round ""]
[White "Rhetoric"]
[Black "DiegoUruguay"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D02"]
[Opening "Reti: 1...d5"]
1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 c5 5. Be2 Nc6 6. O-O Be7 7. a4 O-O 8. a5
Nxa5 9. b3 Nc6 10. Bb2 Bd7 11. Ne5 Be8 12. Qd3 Nxe5 13. dxe5 Nd7 14. f4 f5 15.
Nxd5 exd5 16. Qxd5+ Kh8 17. Qxb7 Qb6 18. Qxa8 Bh5 19. Qd5 Bxe2 20. Qxd7 Bxf1
21. Qxe7 Rd8 22. Rxa7 Rg8 23. Qxg7+ Rxg7 24. Ra8+ Rg8 25. e6# 1-0[/url]
Note also this was a 3m blitz game!
asanjuan
Posts: 214Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:38 pmLocation: Seville, Spain
Post by asanjuan Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:36 pm
Guenther wrote:
I don't think Keelan is saying that Rhetoric is stronger than komodo in any way. But looking at the game, and the time being used by each engine, it is surprising that Rhetoric could win the game , even with that time usage.
Earlier tests at home, using time odds against houdini 1.5 in a relation of 10 to 1 favoring Rhetoric, Rhetoric wasn't able to win a single game. So taking into account that K8 is stronger than houdini 1.5, this game is a real surprise, and we can conclude that is a dangerous opponent when it sees a king attack.
Simply it is attracting to see it winning against a Top engine.
Take it easy.
Still learning how to play chess...
Sylwy
Posts: 4465Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:19 pmLocation: IASI - the historical capital of MOLDOVAFull name: SilvianR
Post by Sylwy Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:55 pm
The 32-bit version, of course !
The result: on Saturday evening (this week - it is a 4'+2" tournament) !
Regards,
Silvian R
Ajedrecista
Posts: 1968Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:04 pmLocation: Madrid, Spain.
Post by Ajedrecista Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:04 pm
Hello:
A reason could be the fixed depth. I do not know how depths compare between these two engines, but I put an example I know better: SF and Rybka. There is no doubt that SF 5 is much stronger than Rybka 4.1 (probably 150 Elo in single core and blitz). Well, let us play a fixed depth match (depth 14 for example, like in the game of this thread) and I bet that the difference will be reduced significantly.
By the way, congrats to Alberto and good luck in Graham's tournaments!
Regards from Spain.
Ajedrecista.
Thomas Lagershausen
Posts: 328Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:59 pm
Post by Thomas Lagershausen Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:17 pm
@ Alberto
Many thanks for your project "Rhetoric"
i like the approach with the setting 50% material.
But Rhetoric has one big disadvantage.
It uses only
one core.
Why didn´t you use Fruit reloaded as your basic?
http://www.chessprogramming.net/fruit-reloaded/
It has mp-support.
A very import thing in the 21 century.
Keep the fire burning.
TL
Thomas Lagershausen
Posts: 328Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:59 pm
Post by Thomas Lagershausen Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:54 pm
One further thing.
TL
