No chance

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MikeB
Posts: 2822
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:34 am
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: No chance

Post by MikeB » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:33 am

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:42 pm
George Tsavdaris wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: I did it exhaustively for the way Milos asked, you should read the thread also psychologically, and not only with a physical eye.

I think I am doing more here in answering you, George, but as you asked with 4 months apart...
Well giving you 4 months for finding a move is not too short isn't it? :D

So do you have a specific move that wins for white in this position?
[d]1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - - 2 27

I really hoped this position to be a good testposition(white to win) but i'm afraid it is just a draw, but perhaps you know better, that's why i'm asking.
Which position should I consider first, this one, or the one with Louis and Smyslov?

As you rightly say, there are innumerable lines.

Obvious first moves for white you might want to consider are Rg1 (which I think is no good), Rh3, and Be1 (which I preferred initially).

Besides, it is possible that lfirst moves like Rh7 and Bh5 are also in store for some surprise.

As soon as I have a breath of fresh air, and in case you do not find the solution, I will tell you what to play.

In the meantime, why do not you be so kind to do a fair share of the work and refute all of the above suggested moves?

Easy task, is not it? :D

Eagerly waiting for your analysis, once you refute all of them, I will tell you the answer.
This position is an easy win for White - as my new engine , named McCain, a close McBrain relative, dedicated to the late Senator John S McCain, a true American hero and former POW held for 5 -1/2 years by the North Vietnamese during the Vietnam war after he was shot down on a bombing mission, finds it in 49 seconds on a Mac Pro.

Code: Select all

dep	score	nodes	time	(not shown:  tbhits	knps	seldep)
 41	+14.92 	13.6G	8:23.57	Bg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Bd3 b1=R Bxb1 Rxb1 Rd2 Nc2 Rxc2 a3 Rf2 Rfb8 Rh7 R8b7 Rg7+ Kf8 Ra2 R1b3 Nh7+ Ke8 Rg8+ Kd7 Rf8 Kc7 Rxf7+ Kb8 Rxb7+ Rxb7 Ng5 Be8 Rxa3 Rb6 Ra2 Rc6 Rf2 Ka8 Rf4 Rc8 f7 Bxf7 Rxf7 Re8 Rf6 Re7 Nxe6 Kb7 Rxg6 Re8 Rf6 Rg8  
 41	+14.61!	12.4G	7:42.74	Bg1! 
 41	+14.34!	11.9G	7:26.49	Bg1! 
 41	+14.13!	11.6G	7:15.31	Bg1! 
 41	+13.99!	11.4G	7:07.33	Bg1! 
 41	+13.89!	11.3G	7:03.98	Bg1! 
 40	+13.80 	10.9G	6:49.53	Bg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Bd3 b1=R Bxb1 Rxb1 Rd2 Nc2 Rxc2 a3 Rf2 Rfb8 Rh7 R8b7 Rg7+ Kf8 Ra2 R1b3 Nh7+ Ke8 Rg8+ Kd7 Rf8 Kc7 Rxf7+ Kb8 Rxb7+ Rxb7 Ng5 Be8 Rxa3 Rb6 Ra2 Rc6 Rf2 Rc8 f7 Bxf7 Rxf7 Re8 Rf6 Kc8 Nxe6 g5 Rg6 g4 Nf4 Kd8 Nxd5 Kc8 Rx 
 40	+13.64!	10.1G	6:20.89	Bg1! 
 40	+13.27!	9.42G	5:56.90	Bg1! 
 40	+12.99!	8.93G	5:38.85	Bg1! 
 40	+12.79!	8.55G	5:25.15	Bg1! 
 40	+12.64!	8.36G	5:18.18	Bg1! 
 40	+12.55!	8.23G	5:13.11	Bg1! 
 39	+12.45 	7.81G	4:57.77	Bg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Bd3 b1=R Bxb1 Rxb1 Rd2 Nc2 Rxc2 a3 Rf2 Rfb8 Rh7 R8b7 Rg7+ Kf8 Ra2 R1b3 Nh7+ Ke8 Rg8+ Kd7 Rf8 Kc7 Rxf7+ Kb8 Rxb7+ Rxb7 Ng5 Be8 Rxa3 Rb6 Ra2 Rc6 Rb2+ Kc7 Rf2 Kc8 Rf4 Kd7 Rh4 Rc8 Rh7+ Kc6 Re7 Kb6 f7 Bxf7 Rxf7 Kb5  
 39	+12.13!	7.45G	4:45.17	Bg1! 
 39	+11.85!	6.95G	4:27.38	Bg1! 
 39	+11.65!	6.61G	4:15.27	Bg1! 
 39	+11.51!	6.45G	4:09.62	Bg1! 
 39	+11.41!	6.09G	3:56.46	Bg1! 
 38	+11.31 	5.87G	3:48.21	Bg1 Nb5 Rf1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Kg2 b1=Q Rxb1 Rxb1 Rh7 Rbb8 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 a3 Ra7 Ra8 f7 Kg7 Bc5 Rf8 Bxf8+ Kxf8 Kg3 a2 Rxa2 Kxf7 Kg4 Ke8 Kg5 d4 cxd4 Kd7 Rc2 Bh1 Rxc4 Bd5 Rc3 Ke7 Bc4 Bh1 Rc2 Be4 Ra2 Kd7 Kf6 
 37	+11.26 	5.56G	3:37.06	Bg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Bd3 b1=B Bxb1 Rxb1 Rd2 Nc2 Rxc2 a3 Rf2 Rfb8 Rh7 R8b7 Rg7+ Kf8 Ra2 R1b3 Nh7+ Ke8 Rg8+ Kd7 Rf8 Kc7 Rxf7+ Kb8 Rxb7+ Rxb7 Ng5 Be8 Rxa3 Rb6 Ra2 Rc6 Rb2+ Kc8 Rf2 Rb6 Rf4 Kd8 Rh4 Ra6 Rh8 Kd7 Rh7+ Kd8 Rb7 Rc6 Ra7 Rb6 R 
 37	+11.20!	5.32G	3:28.15	Bg1! 
 37	+10.92!	4.63G	3:03.08	Bg1! 
 37	+10.72!	4.24G	2:48.54	Bg1! 
 37	+10.57!	4.05G	2:41.66	Bg1! 
 37	+10.48!	3.97G	2:38.62	Bg1! 
 36	+10.38 	3.83G	2:33.29	Bg1 Nb5 Rf1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rh7 b1=R Rxb1 Rxb1+ Kg2 Rbb8 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 a3 Ra7 Ra8 f7 Kg7 Bc5 Rf8 Bxf8+ Kxf8 Kg3 a2 Rxa2 Kxf7 Kg4 Ke7 Kg5 Kd7 Kf6 d4 cxd4 Kc7 Kxe6 c3 Kf6 g5 e6 g4 d5 Bxd5 Ra7+ Kc8 e7 Bc6 Ra6 Kb7 
 36	+10.13!	3.47G	2:20.03	Bg1! 
 36	+9.85!	3.29G	2:13.40	Bg1! 
 36	+9.65!	3.27G	2:12.49	Bg1! 
 36	+9.51?	3.25G	2:11.70	Bg1 Qxc3? 
 36	+9.70!	3.11G	2:06.33	Bg1! 
 35	+9.60 	2.89G	1:57.98	Bg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Bd3 b1=R Bxb1 Rxb1 Rd2 Nb5 Rh7 a3 Rf2 a2 Rxa2 Nxc3 Rg7+ Kh8 Rg2 Ne4 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 g5 Rc7 Ra1 Rb2 Ra8 Rxc6 Kh7 Rxe6 Kg6 Re7 c3 Rg2 Rf8 Be3 Rf7 Bxg5 Nxg5 Rxf7 Kxf7 Rxg5 Ke6 Rg1 Kf7 Rg7+ Kf8 
 35	+9.27!	2.54G	1:44.93	Bg1! 
 35	+8.99!	2.49G	1:42.93	Bg1! 
 35	+8.79!	2.47G	1:42.31	Bg1! 
 35	+8.64!	2.42G	1:40.25	Bg1! 
 35	+8.55!	2.39G	1:39.10	Bg1! 
 34	+8.45 	2.28G	1:34.59	Bg1 Nb5 Rf1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Kg2 b1=Q Rxb1 Rxb1 Rh7 Rb7 Bc5 d4+ Kf2 Rfb8 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 dxc3 Rc7 Bb5 Bd1 Be8 Ke3 Kg8 Bc2 Ra8 Rg7+ Kh8 Re7 Kg8 Be4 c2 Rg7+ Kh8 Ba3 Rd8 Bxc2 c3 Be4 Rc8 f7 Bxf7 Rxf7 Rb8 Bxg6 Rb3 Bd6  
 34	+7.23!	1.82G	1:16.11	Bg1! 
 34	+5.53!	1.64G	1:08.51	Bg1! 
 34	+4.19!	1.51G	1:03.10	Bg1! 
 34	+3.13!	1.44G	1:00.28	Bg1! 
 34	+2.31!	1.36G	0:57.02	Bg1! 
 34	+1.67!	1.31G	0:54.87	Bg1! 
 34	+1.18!	1.27G	0:53.15	Bg1! 
 34	+0.81!	1.23G	0:51.57	Bg1! 
 34	+0.53!	1.21G	0:50.56	Bg1! 
 34	+0.33!	1.20G	0:50.26	Bg1! 
 34	+0.19!	1.18G	0:49.22	Bg1! 
 34	+0.09!	1.15G	0:48.09	Bg1! 
 33	  0.00 	738.0M	0:30.63	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 32	  0.00 	501.0M	0:20.93	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 31	  0.00 	450.1M	0:18.80	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 30	  0.00 	262.7M	0:11.15	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 29	  0.00 	209.5M	0:08.84	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 28	  0.00 	89.8M  	0:03.90	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 27	  0.00 	73.7M  	0:03.24	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 26	  0.00 	53.3M  	0:02.40	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 25	  0.00 	37.5M  	0:01.73	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rg1 b1=Q Rh7+ Kg8 Rg7+ 
 24	  0.00 	13.3M  	0:00.62	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 23	  0.00 	7.93M  	0:00.37	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 22	  0.00 	6.42M  	0:00.30	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rg1 b1=Q Rh7+ Kg8 Rg7+ 
 21	  0.00 	4.97M  	0:00.24	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 20	  0.00 	3.42M  	0:00.17	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rg1 b1=Q Rh7+ Kg8 Rg7+ 
 19	  0.00 	2.81M  	0:00.14	Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 18	  0.00 	665113	0:00.03	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 17	  0.00 	174734	0:00.01	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 16	  0.00 	145656	0:00.01	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 15	  0.00 	119677	0:00.01	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 14	  0.00 	77587  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 13	  0.00 	50192  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 12	  0.00 	34990  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 11	  0.00 	26168  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 10	  0.00 	19880  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
  9	  0.00 	17720  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
  8	  0.00 	16177  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
  7	  0.00 	14760  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
  6	  0.00 	12607  	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
  5	  0.00 	7878    	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
  4	  0.00 	6212    	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
  3	  0.00 	4731    	0:00.00	Rh7 Nb5 Rg7+ Kh8 
  2	 -4.79 	3127    	0:00.00	Rh7 Rb7 
  1	 -8.26 	1694    	0:00.00	Nxe6 fxe6 
  0	# 

User avatar
Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4016
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:40 am
Location: Groningen

Re: No chance

Post by Eelco de Groot » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:39 am

Nice find from the senator Mike! Considering he is no longer all that active. Found in the Post Mortem. Sorry if that is a bit crude.

Kaissa needs a depth 54 to find that move.

Code: Select all


1r3rk1/5p2/2b1pPpR/q2pP1N1/p1pP4/npP5/1P2BB1P/3R3K w - -

Engine: Kaissa IV (512 MB)
by T. Romstad, M. Costalba, J. Kiiski, G.

25/40  0:02   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (4.241.788) 2074 

26/35  0:02   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (4.666.483) 2075 

27/51  0:02   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (5.327.007) 2097 

28/57  0:02   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (6.193.019) 2096 

29/42  0:03   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (6.611.499) 2097 

30/40  0:03   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (8.123.812) 2116 

31/46  0:05   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (10.627.137) 2119 

32/46  0:06   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (13.947.752) 2129 

33/47  0:09   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (20.173.308) 2088 
.
.
.
45/54  3:31   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Ra7 a3 8.Bg4 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (441.166.773) 2088 

46/49  4:12   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Ra7 a3 8.Bg4 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (527.159.503) 2087 

47/69  5:29   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Ra7 a3 8.Bg4 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (689.426.209) 2090 

48/69  7:34   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Ra7 a3 8.Bg4 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (940.640.438) 2070 

49/35  9:07   0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Ra7 a3 8.Bg4 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (1.132.024.753) 2068 

50/57  11:02  0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (1.374.314.327) 2073 

51/35  13:31  0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (1.685.227.107) 2077 

52/35  18:30  0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Bg4 a3 8.Ra7 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (2.302.677.794) 2073 

53/35  22:43  0.00     1.Rh7 Qxc3 2.bxc3 b2 3.Rg7+ Kh8 
                       4.Nxf7+ Rxf7 5.Rxf7 b1Q 6.Rxb1 Nxb1 
                       7.Ra7 a3 8.Bg4 Ra8 9.Rxa8+ Bxa8 
                       10.Bxe6 a2 11.f7 Kg7 12.Be3 a1Q 
                       13.Bh6+ Kxh6 14.f8Q+ (2.819.345.316) 2067 

54/35  31:02  +0.07++  1.Bg1 (3.850.536.781) 2067 

54/45  31:28  +0.15++  1.Bg1 (3.903.295.924) 2066 

54/45  32:02  +0.25++  1.Bg1 (3.970.521.556) 2065 

54/45  32:27  +0.40++  1.Bg1 (4.021.053.720) 2064 

54/45  33:27  +0.59++  1.Bg1 (4.139.972.168) 2062 

54/45  35:16  +0.82++  1.Bg1 (4.355.838.464) 2058 

54/45  37:16  +1.12++  1.Bg1 (4.596.352.682) 2055 

54/45  39:27  +1.48++  1.Bg1 (4.854.588.465) 2050 

54/45  41:46  +1.91++  1.Bg1 (5.127.466.088) 2045 

54/45  44:38  +2.43++  1.Bg1 (5.456.950.730) 2037 

54/45  48:17  +3.05++  1.Bg1 (5.876.412.040) 2027  

I wonder if Mc Cain will get a ship named after him or is there already a USS McCain? His father and grandfather being admirals in the fleet. I may have read something about a McCain having a ship's accident last year? It would be a fitting tribute though.
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan

MikeB
Posts: 2822
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:34 am
Location: Pen Argyl, Pennsylvania

Re: No chance

Post by MikeB » Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:37 am

zullil wrote:
Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:10 am
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: I capture, of course.

[d]1r3rk1/5p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K b - - 0 9

Still seeing nothing?
Blind as a bat. SF plays Rb7.
[D]5rk1/1r3p2/1qb1pPpR/3pP1N1/p1pP4/PpP5/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K w - - 1 10

Rb7 is a pretty bad move here.

The new engine McCain, sister engine of McBrain 9.8, both are now based on SugaR.

Code: Select all

dep	score	nodes	time	(not shown:  tbhits	knps	seldep)
 41	  #33!	11.0G	7:03.40	Bf2! 
 41	  #47!	11.0G	7:01.48	Bf2! 
 41	  #56!	10.9G	6:58.00	Bf2! 
 40	+169.27 	10.7G	6:52.78	Bf2 Qc7 Rg1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxe5 Bxe5 d4+ Bf3 Rb5 Bxc6 Rxe5 Rh7 Rf5 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 Kg8 Rg7+ Kf8 R1xg6 Rf1+ Kg2 Rxf6 Rxf6+ Kxg7 Rxe6 dxc3 Bxa4 c2 Re1 Kf6 Bxb3 cxb3 Kf3 Kg7 Ke4 Kf6 Kd3 Kg6 Kc3 Kh5 Kxb3 c1=Q Rxc1 Kg4 h3+ Kf4  
 39	+169.26 	10.7G	6:49.77	Bf2 Qc7 Rg1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxe5 Bxe5 d4+ Bf3 Rb5 Bxc6 Rxe5 Rh7 Rf5 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 Kg8 Rg7+ Kf8 R1xg6 Rf1+ Kg2 Rxf6 Rxf6+ Kxg7 Rxe6 dxc3 Bxa4 c2 Re1 Kg6 Rc1 Kg5 Rxc2 Kf4 Rxc4+ Kg5 Bxb3 Kf6 Kf3 Ke6 Rc7+ Ke5 Rc6 Kd4 Rc5 Kxc5 
 38	+169.26!	10.6G	6:48.04	Bf2! 
 38	+169.16!	10.6G	6:48.01	Bf2! 
 37	+169.05 	10.6G	6:48.01	Bf2 Qc7 Rg1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxe5 Bxe5 d4+ Bf3 Rb5 Bxc6 Rxe5 Rh7 Rf5 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 Kg8 Rg7+ Kf8 R1xg6 Rf1+ Kg2 Rxf6 Rg8+ Ke7 Rxf6 Kxf6 cxd4 Ke7 Bxa4 Kd6 Rg7 Kd5 Re7 Ke4 Rxe6+ Kf5 Re5+ Kg6 Bxb3 Kg7 Bxc4 Kg6 Bb3 Kf6 Rc5 Ke7  
{snip]
 36	+73.76 	10.0G	6:25.23	Bf2 Qc7 Rg1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxe5 Bxe5 d4+ Bf3 Rb5 Bxc6 Rxe5 Rh7 Rf5 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 Kg8 Rg7+ Kf8 R1xg6 Rf1+ Kg2 Rxf6 Rg8+ Ke7 Rxf6 Kxf6 cxd4 Kf7 Rc8 c3 bxc3 Ke7 Bxa4 Kd6 Re8 b2 Rb8 Ke7 Rxb2 Kf7 Rb7+ Kf6 Bb3 Kf5 Re7 Ke4 Rxe6+ 
[snip]
 35	+62.80 	9.82G	6:16.65	Bf2 Qc7 Rg1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxe5 Bxe5 d4+ Bf3 Rb5 Bxc6 Rxe5 Rh7 Rf5 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 Kg8 Rg7+ Kf8 R1xg6 Rf1+ Kg2 Rxf6 Rg8+ Ke7 Rxf6 Kxf6 cxd4 Ke7 Bxa4 Kd6 Bb5 c3 bxc3 b2 Bd3 Kc7 Be4 Kd7 Rb8 Kd6 Rxb2 Ke7 Rb8 Kf6 Rb7 Kg5 Rb6 Kf 
[snip]
 34	+26.15 	8.50G	5:25.86	Bf2 Ne3 Bxe3 Qa5 Rg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rb1 Ra8 Rh7 Raa7 Bd1 Rb6 Rg7+ Kf8 Nh7+ Ke8 Rg8+ Kd7 Nf8+ Kc7 Nxe6+ fxe6 f7 Ra8 Rxa8 Bxa8 f8=Q Kb7 Bxa4 Ka7 Qc5 Kb7 Bc6+ Ka6 Bxa8 g5 Bxg5 Rb8 Qc6+ Ka7 Qc7+ Kxa8 Qa5+ Kb7 Rxb2+ Kc6 Qc5+ Kd7 Qd6+  
[snip]
 33	+21.93 	6.83G	4:24.13	Bf2 Ne1 Rxe1 Qb4 Rh7 Qxc3 bxc3 Rc8 Rg1 b2 Rg7+ Kf8 Nxe6+ Ke8 Nc5 Kf8 Nxb7 Rb8 Nd6 Be8 e6 fxe6 f7 Bxf7 Rxf7+ Kg8 Rb7 Rxb7 Nxb7 Kg7 Bg4 Kf6 Nc5 Ke7 Nxe6 Kd7 Rb1 Ke8 Nc7+ Ke7 Nxd5+ Kf7 Rxb2 Kg8 
[snip]
 32	+18.89 	5.46G	3:34.56	Bf2 Ne3 Bxe3 Qa5 Rg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rb1 Rb3 Rh7 Rxc3 Rg7+ Kh8 Rxb2 Rb3 Rxb3 axb3 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 b2 Rf8+ Kh7 Rb8 Be8 Rxb2 g5 Rb7+ Kg6 Rg7+ Kf5 f7 Bxf7 Rxf7+ Ke4 Bf2 c3 Rc7 Kf5 Rxc3 Kg6 Bg4 Kf7 
[snip]
 31	+17.93 	4.77G	3:09.33	Bf2 Ne3 Bxe3 Qa5 Rg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rb1 Ra8 Rh7 Be8 Rg7+ Kh8 Bd1 Ra6 Rh7+ Kg8 Bc2 Rab6 Rg7+ Kh8 Kg2 Rb3 Bxb3 cxb3 Rh7+ Kg8 Rxb2 Bc6 Bc1 Be8 Rg7+ Kh8 Bd2 Rd7 Kh1 Rb7 Nxe6 Rb6 Ng5 Ra6 Nxf7+ Bxf7 Rxf7 Kg8 Re7 
[snip]
 30	+16.54 	3.97G	2:40.46	Bf2 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qa5 Rg1 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rb1 Rc8 Rh7 Be8 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxe6 Rb6 Ng5 Rcc6 Bd1 Rb3 Bxb3 axb3 Kg2 Ra6 Rxb2 Rc6 Nxf7+ Bxf7 Rxf7 Re6 Rc7 g5 Rc8+ Kh7 f7 
[snip]
 29	+7.24 	1.33G	0:57.88	Bf2 Qa5 h4 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 h5 gxh5 Nxf7 Rfxf7 Rg1+ Rg7 fxg7 Rxg7 Rb1 Nxa3 Rxb2 Nb5 Bxh5 Rh7 Rxh7 Kxh7 Rc2 Nc7 Kg2 Kh6 Bg4 Kg6 Kf3 Kf7 Bh4 Ne8 Bh5+ Kf8 Ra2 Ng7 Bg6 Nf5 Bf6 Ne7 Bc2 Kf7 
 28	+7.18 	1.15G	0:50.54	Bf2 Qa5 h4 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 h5 gxh5 Nxf7 Rfxf7 Rg1+ Rg7 fxg7 Rxg7 Rb1 Nxa3 Rxb2 Nb5 Bxh5 Rh7 Rxh7 Kxh7 Rc2 Nc7 Kg2 a3 Ra2 Nb5 Bg4 Bd7 Be1 Kg7 Kf3 Kg6 Rc2 Nc7 Ke3 Ba4 Ra2 Kg5 Rxa3 Kxg4 
[snip]
 27	+6.17 	990.7M	0:43.69	Bf2 Qa5 h4 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 h5 Nxa3 hxg6 fxg6 Rxg6+ Kh8 Rh6+ Kg8 Nxe6 b1=Q Rxb1 Rxb1+ Kg2 Rf7 Ng5 Be8 Bf3 Rb5 Rg6+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Bxf7 Rg7 Bg8 Re7 Rb2 e6 Bxe6 Rxe6 Kh7 Ra6 Kg6 Bxd5 Nb5 
[snip]
 26	  0.00 	146.2M	0:06.47	Bd2 Rfb8 Rh7 Nxd4 cxd4 Qxd4 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 25	  0.00 	135.8M	0:06.00	Bd2 Rfb8 Rh7 Nxd4 cxd4 Qxd4 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 24	  0.00 	119.6M	0:05.29	Bd2 Rfb8 Rh7 Nxd4 cxd4 Qxd4 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 23	  0.00 	95.2M  	0:04.21	Bd2 Rfb8 Rh7 Rc8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rf1 Nxd4 cxd4 c3 Rh7 Kg8 Bxc3 Bb5 Bb4 Bxe2 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 22	  0.00 	90.6M  	0:04.01	Bd2 Ra8 Rh7 Rab8 Bg4 Nxd4 Rg7+ Kh8 Rh7+ 
 21	  0.00 	66.9M  	0:02.95	Bd2 Ra8 Rh7 Qd8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rf1 Qa5 Rh7 Kg8 Rg7+ 
 20	 -2.11 	29.6M  	0:01.36	Bg4 Rfb8 Bd2 Nxd4 cxd4 Qxd4 Bxe6 Qd3 Bg4 d4+ Kg1 Bf3 Rh7 Bxg4 Rg7+ Kf8 Bb4+ Ke8 Rxd3 cxd3 Bd2 Be6 Nxe6 fxe6 Rxg6 Rd8 Ba5 d2 Bxd2 Rh7 Rg8+ Kd7 Rg4 Kc6 Rg7 
 19	 -1.98 	28.5M  	0:01.31	Bd2 Rfb8 Bg4 Nxd4 cxd4 Qxd4 Bxe6 Qd3 Bg4 d4+ Kg1 Bf3 Rh7 Bxg4 Rg7+ Kf8 Bb4+ Ke8 Rxd3 cxd3 Nxf7 Rxb4 Nd6+ Kd8 Ra7 R4b7 Rxb7 Rxb7 Nxb7+ Kc7 
 18	 -1.86 	26.7M  	0:01.24	Bd2 Rfb8 Bg4 Nxd4 cxd4 Qxd4 Bxe6 Qd3 Bg4 d4+ Kg1 Bd7 Bf3 Qf5 Rh7 Qxg5+ Bxg5 Kxh7 Bxb7 Rxb7 Rxd4 c3 Bc1 c2 Kf2 Rc7 h4 Bb5 Rf4 Bc4 Rd4 Rc8 Rg4 Bb5 Re4 
 17	 -4.48 	4.02M  	0:00.18	Bg4 Rfb8 Bd2 Nxa3 Bxe6 fxe6 Rxg6+ Kf8 Rh6 Ke8 Rf1 Rf7 bxa3 b2 Rb1 Rf8 Nxe6 Rb7 Ng5 Qb3 f7+ Rbxf7 Nxf7 Rxf7 Rxc6 Qxa3 
 16	 -5.04 	1.23M  	0:00.06	Rh7 Rfb8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Rh8+ Kd7 Rh7 Bb5 Rxf7+ Kc6 Rxb7 Kxb7 Bf2 Bd7 Bg4 Qc6 Kg2 Kb6 h4 Rc8 Rh1 
 15	 -5.11 	1.07M  	0:00.05	Rh7 Rfb8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Rh8+ Kd7 Rh7 Bb5 Rxf7+ Kc6 Rxb7 Kxb7 Bf2 Bd7 Bg4 Rf8 Kg2 Qc6 Rc1 Kb6 h4 
 14	 -5.11 	972112	0:00.05	Rh7 Rfb8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Rh8+ Kd7 Rh7 Bb5 Rxf7+ Kc6 Bf2 Rxf7 Nxf7 Qc7 Ng5 Rh8 
 13	 -5.42 	274423	0:00.02	Rh7 Rfb8 Bd2 Nxa3 bxa3 b2 Rb1 Qb3 Bd1 Qxa3 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Rh8+ Kd7 Rh7 Kc7 Rxf7+ Kb6 Rxb7+ Rxb7 Nxe6 
 12	 -5.34 	174497	0:00.01	Rh7 Rfb8 Bd2 Nxa3 bxa3 b2 Rb1 Qb3 Bd1 Qxa3 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Rh8+ Kd7 
 11	 -4.84 	135808	0:00.01	Rh7 Rfb8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Rh8+ Kd7 Rh7 Nxe1 Rxe1 Bb5 Rxf7+ Kc6 Rg7 
 10	 -5.30 	64236  	0:00.01	Rh7 Rfb8 Bd2 Nxa3 bxa3 b2 Rg7+ Kf8 Rb1 Qb3 Bg4 Ke8 
  9	 -4.69 	38167  	0:00.01	Rh7 Rfb8 Bd2 Nxa3 bxa3 b2 Rb1 Qb3 Kg2 
  8	 -5.37 	30331  	0:00.01	Rh7 Rfb8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Bf2 Rd8 Rh8+ Kd7 
  7	 -5.62 	13494  	0:00.01	Rh7 Rd8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Bd2 Ra7 
  6	 -6.20 	11100  	0:00.00	Rh7 Rd8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 Rh8+ Kd7 
  5	 -6.20 	10108  	0:00.00	Rh7 Rd8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 Ke8 
  4	 -6.20 	7306    	0:00.00	Rh7 Rd8 Rg7+ Kf8 Rh7 
  3	 -4.83 	6208    	0:00.00	Rh7 Ra8 Rg7+ Kf8 
  2	 -7.28 	2314    	0:00.00	Bf2 Rd8 
  1	 -7.11 	1372    	0:00.00	Bf2 
  0	# 
after some back and forth, McCain sees a mate in 21

Code: Select all

 dep	score	nodes	time	(not shown:  tbhits	knps	seldep)
 44	  #21 	640.3M	0:25.20	Bf2 Qa5 Rg1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rb1 Rd8 Rh7 Rdb8 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 Rg8 Rxb2 g5 Re7 Be8 f7 Bxf7 Rxf7 Rg7 Rxg7 Kxg7 Rb7+ Kg8 Bd1 g4 Bxg4 Kh8 Bf2 Kg8 Bxe6+ Kh8 Bh4 d4 Bf6# 
 43	  #21 	466.4M	0:18.44	Bf2 Qb4 Rg1 Nxd4 Bxd4 Qxc3 bxc3 b2 Rb1 Rd8 Rh7 Rdb8 Rg7+ Kh8 Nxf7+ Rxf7 Rxf7 Rg8 Rxb2 g5 Re7 Be8 f7 Bxf7 Rxf7 Rg7 Rxg7 Kxg7 Rb7+ Kg8 Bd1 g4 Bxg4 Kh8 Bf2 Kg8 Bxe6+ Kh8 Bh4 d4 Bf6# 

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MikeGL
Posts: 796
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:49 pm

Re: Leela solves the Qf6+!!

Post by MikeGL » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:01 am

That's impressive when it found Qf6+! honestly.
Last edited by MikeGL on Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.

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MikeGL
Posts: 796
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:49 pm

Re: Leela solves the Qf6+!!

Post by MikeGL » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:11 am

Impressive when it finds Qf6+! honestly. But judging from NN engine games (LC0 specifically), I am really amazed at its stable eval against SF8, I have seen a game where LC0 sees a draw more than 80 moves earlier than SF8 considered a 0.00! SF8 was still thinking it is ahead by +3.xx pawns on that game (see first image below).
The second image below, also proves that eval of LC0 is more stable, where LC0 is white and shows a draw earlier than stockfish.
This alone proves LC0 and NN MCTS engines will be a lot stronger than classical A-B engines.
Just look how quickly it has improved, the rate is amazing considering its development is still at a very early stage compared to alpha-beta engines.
Maybe comparing an 8 year old kid (NN) to a 40+ year old adult (alpha-beta), in terms of maturity. I am sure other good tricks was not yet found for NN MCTS engines, like what bitboard did to alpha-beta engines.

See the graph at the left, LC0(white line) saw a draw a lot earlier. (Move 28 for LC0 while move 127 for Stockfish to consider a draw)
Image

See the graph at the left, LC0(black line) saw a draw earlier than SF. (At move 98 LC0 already considers it draw, whiel stockfish still thinks it is winning until move 196.
Image


George Tsavdaris wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:12 pm
Leela finds the Qf6+!! move!!!!!! WTF?? :shock: :shock: :shock:
INSTANTLY. By its eval! :shock: :shock:
Net 10815 to be accurate. I haven't tried others.
I guess this is because she knows that this specific pattern of encircling the King with these specific pieces works, i can't find other explanation.
she even finds the right continuation with Ng5!!

[d]1r3r2/4bpkp/1qb1p1p1/3pP1P1/p1pP1Q2/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K w - - 0 6

Lc0 10815:
1/2 00:00 2 64 +1,90 Be1-f2 Rf8-h8
2/3 00:00 6 111 +1,50 Be1-f2 Rf8-h8 Rd1-f1
3/4 00:00 20 270 +0,96 Be1-f2 Rf8-h8 Rh3-h6 Qb6-d8
3/5 00:00 45 463 +1,70 Be1-d2 Rf8-h8 Rh3-h6 Nc2xa3 h2-h4
4/6 00:00 109 807 +1,17 Be1-d2 Rf8-h8 Rd1-f1 Qb6-d8 Rh3-h6 Bc6-e8
4/7 00:00 223 1,179 +1,13 Be1-d2 Rf8-h8 Rd1-f1 Qb6-d8 Rh3-h6 Bc6-e8
4/9 00:00 372 1,530 +1,03 Be1-d2 Rf8-h8 Rd1-f1 Qb6-d8 Rh3-h6 Bc6-e8
5/10 00:00 431 1,584 +1,03 Be1-d2 Rf8-h8 Rd1-f1 Qb6-d8 Rh3-h6 Bc6-e8
5/11 00:00 499 1,657 +1,70 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 Rb8-b7 Bh5-g4
5/12 00:00 658 1,665 +1,54 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 Rb8-b7 Bh5-g4
6/12 00:00 710 1,674 +1,50 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 g6xh5 Rh3xh5 Nc2-e3 Be1-d2 Ne3xd1 Kh1-g1
6/13 00:00 774 1,751 +1,67 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Rb8-b7 Bh5-e2 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 Rf8-d8 Re1-f1
7/13 00:00 1,057 2,017 +1,69 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Rb8-b7 Bh5-e2 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 Rf8-d8 Re1-f1
7/14 00:00 1,335 2,115 +1,96 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Rb8-b7 Bh5-e2 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 Rf8-d8 Re1-f1
7/15 00:00 1,532 2,220 +2,10 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 g6xh5 Be1-f2 Rf8-d8 Rh3xh5 Nc2xd4 Bf2xd4
8/15 00:00 1,753 2,343 +2,21 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Rf8-d8 Be1-f2 g6xh5 Rh3xh5 Nc2xd4 Bf2xd4
9/15 00:01 3,167 2,598 +2,05 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Rh3-h7 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+
9/16 00:01 3,382 2,621 +2,06 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Rh3-h7 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+
9/17 00:01 3,715 2,695 +2,05 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Rh3-h7 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+
9/18 00:01 4,155 2,770 +1,98 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Rh3-h7 Nc2-e3 Be1-d2 Ne3xd1 Bf3xd1 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+
9/20 00:01 4,924 2,854 +1,87 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Rh3-h7 Nc2-e3 Be1-d2 Ne3xd1 Bf3xd1 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+
10/20 00:02 5,993 2,944 +1,94 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-e2 Na3-c2 Rh3-h7 Nc2xe1 Rd1xe1 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Re1-f1 Qb6xd4
10/21 00:02 8,291 2,984 +1,72 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-e2 Na3-c2 Rh3-h7 Nc2-e3 Be1-d2 Ne3xd1 Be2xd1 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8
11/21 00:04 13,935 3,118 +1,58 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-e2 Na3-c2 Be1-f2 a4-a3 Rh3-h7 a3xb2 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Rd1-g1 b2-b1Q Rg1xb1 Nc2xd4
11/22 00:04 15,910 3,198 +1,54 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-e2 Na3-c2 Be1-f2 a4-a3 Rh3-h7 a3xb2 Rd1-g1 b2-b1Q Rg1xb1 Qb6-a5 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8
11/23 00:05 18,629 3,296 +1,54 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-e2 Na3-c2 Be1-f2 a4-a3 Rh3-h7 a3xb2 Rd1-g1 b2-b1Q Rg1xb1 Qb6-a5 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8
11/24 00:05 19,230 3,321 +1,56 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Be1-f2 a4-a3 Rh3-h7 a3xb2 Rd1-g1 b2-b1Q Rg1xb1 b3-b2 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8
12/24 00:06 20,987 3,333 +1,56 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Be1-f2 a4-a3 Rh3-h7 a3xb2 Rd1-g1 Nc2xd4 Bf2xd4 Qb6xd4 c3xd4 c4-c3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8
12/25 00:06 22,595 3,353 +1,52 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Be1-f2 a3xb2 Rd1-g1 b2-b1Q Rg1xb1 Nb5xc3
13/25 00:09 34,770 3,575 +1,33 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Be1-f2 Nb5xc3 Rd1-g1 Nc3-e4 Bf3xe4 d5xe4 Bf2-e3 a3xb2 Rg7-h7+
13/26 00:10 36,725 3,567 +1,31 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Be1-f2 Nb5xc3 Rd1-g1 a3xb2 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8
13/27 00:11 41,246 3,618 +1,25 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Be1-f2 Nb5xc3 Rd1-g1 a3xb2 Rg1-g4 b2-b1Q+ Kh1-g2 Qb1-e4 Bf3xe4 Nc3xe4
14/27 00:14 54,692 3,734 +1,13 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Kh1-g2 a3xb2 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Bf3-g4 b2-b1R Rd1xb1 Nb5xd4
14/28 00:15 56,581 3,724 +1,13 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Kh1-g2 a3xb2 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Bf3-g4 b2-b1R Rd1xb1 Nb5xd4
14/29 00:15 58,528 3,752 +1,10 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Kh1-g2 a3xb2 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Bf3-g4 b2-b1R Rd1xb1 Nb5xd4
14/29 00:20 76,002 3,689 +1,02 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Kh1-g2 a3xb2 Be1-d2 Nb5xd4 Rg7-h7+
14/30 00:24 87,441 3,637 +1,01 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Kh1-g2 a3xb2 Be1-d2 Nb5xd4 Rg7-h7+
15/30 00:28 104,399 3,607 +0,98 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rh3-h7 a4-a3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Be1-f2 Nb5xc3 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Rd1-g1 Nc3-e4 Bf3xe4 d5xe4 Bf2-e3 a3xb2 Rg7-h7+
15/30 00:33 124,537 3,668 +1,11 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Rb8-b7 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rd1-g1 Nb5-d6 Rh3-h7 Nd6-f5 Bf3-g4 a4-a3 Bg4xf5 e6xf5 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Rg1-g3 a3xb2 Rg3-h3+
15/30 00:38 143,525 3,684 +1,25 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Na3-c2 Rd1-g1 Qb6-c7 Bh5-f3 a4-a3 Rg1-g4 a3xb2 Rg4-h4 b2-b1Q+ Bf2-g1 Qb1xg1+ Kh1xg1 b3-b2 Rh4-h8+
15/35 00:48 184,453 3,770 +1,48 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Na3-c2 Rd1-g1 Qb6-c7 Bh5-f3 a4-a3 Rg1-g4 a3xb2 Rg4-h4 b2-b1Q+ Bf2-g1 Qb1xg1+ Kh1xg1 b3-b2 Rh4-h8+
16/35 00:52 196,477 3,773 +1,51 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Qb6-c7 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rd1-g1 Nb5-d6 e5xd6 Qc7-d8 Bf2-g3 Qd8xf6 Bg3-e5 Qf6-g7 Be5xg7 Kg8xg7 Rh3-h7+ Kg7-g8 h2-h4 a4-a3 h4-h5 a3xb2 h5-h6 Rb8-a8 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8
16/35 00:57 211,669 3,708 +1,57 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Rb8-b7 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rd1-g1 Nb5xd4 c3xd4 c4-c3 Rg1-g4 Qb6-a6 Kh1-g2 Qa6-f1+ Kg2xf1 Bc6-b5+ Kf1-g2 c3xb2 Rg4-h4 Bb5-f1+ Kg2xf1 b2-b1Q+ Kf1-g2 Qb1-f1+ Kg2xf1
16/35 01:02 233,433 3,759 +1,61 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Rb8-b7 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rd1-g1 Nb5xd4 c3xd4 c4-c3 Rg1-g4 Qb6-a6 Kh1-g2 c3-c2 Bf2-e3 Bc6-b5 Rh3-h7 Bb5-f1+ Kg2-g3 Qa6-d3 Rg4-h4 Bf1-h3
17/35 01:07 253,425 3,777 +1,66 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Rb8-b7 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Rd1-g1 Nc2xd4 c3xd4 c4-c3 Rg1-g4 Qb6-a6 Kh1-g2 c3-c2 Bf2-e3 Bc6-b5 Rh3-h7 Bb5-f1+ Kg2-f2 c2-c1Q Rg4-h4 Qc1-e1+ Kf2xe1 Qa6-e2+
17/35 01:12 277,666 3,849 +1,72 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Rb8-b7 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Rd1-g1 Nc2xd4 c3xd4 c4-c3 Rg1-g4 Qb6-a6 Kh1-g2 c3-c2 Bf2-e3 Bc6-b5 Rh3-h7 Bb5-f1+ Kg2-f2 c2-c1Q Rg4-h4 Qc1-e1+ Kf2xe1 Qa6-e2+
17/35 01:22 322,343 3,924 +1,76 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Rb8-b7 Bh5-f3 Na3-c2 Rd1-g1 Nc2xd4 c3xd4 c4-c3 Rg1-g4 Qb6-a6 Kh1-g2 c3-c2 Bf2-e3 Bc6-b5 Rh3-h7 Bb5-f1+ Kg2-f2 c2-c1Q Rg4-h4 Qc1-e1+ Kf2xe1 Qa6-e2+
17/35 01:27 344,879 3,957 +1,70 Qf4-f6+ Be7xf6 g5xf6+ Kg7-g8 Nf3-g5 h7-h5 Be2xh5 Nc2xa3 Be1-f2 Rb8-b7 Bh5-f3 Na3-b5 Rd1-g1 Nb5-d6 Rh3-h7 Nd6-f5 Bf3-g4 Bc6-d7 Bg4xf5 e6xf5 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Rg7-h7+ Kh8-g8 Kh1-g2 f5-f4 Rh7-g7+ Kg8-h8 Kg2-f3 Bd7-f5
I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.

zenpawn
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Re: Leela solves the Qf6+!!

Post by zenpawn » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:55 am

MikeGL wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:11 am
See the graph at the left, LC0(white line) saw a draw a lot earlier. (Move 28 for LC0 while move 127 for Stockfish to consider a draw)
Image

See the graph at the left, LC0(black line) saw a draw earlier than SF. (At move 98 LC0 already considers it draw, whiel stockfish still thinks it is winning until move 196.
Image
Looks like the reverse to me. Based on the logos above the graph being in the white or black sections, you can see SF is white in the first position and black in the second.
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MikeGL
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Re: Leela solves the Qf6+!!

Post by MikeGL » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:55 pm

Source> http://tcecbeta.chessdb.cn/bonusbeta/live.html
No. The first image is correct, LC0 is white.
Image
But you are correct on the second image. SF8 gave a more stable eval there.
Thanks for rechecking, that color on the logo of engines at tcecbeta website makes things confusing.
The color setting of engine is correctly depicted just below the EVENT header at the upper left most corner of the pic (without logo).
The one witht he logo and color is wrong.
zenpawn wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:55 am
MikeGL wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:11 am
See the graph at the left, LC0(white line) saw a draw a lot earlier. (Move 28 for LC0 while move 127 for Stockfish to consider a draw)
Image

See the graph at the left, LC0(black line) saw a draw earlier than SF. (At move 98 LC0 already considers it draw, whiel stockfish still thinks it is winning until move 196.
Image
Looks like the reverse to me. Based on the logos above the graph being in the white or black sections, you can see SF is white in the first position and black in the second.
I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.

zenpawn
Posts: 279
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Re: Leela solves the Qf6+!!

Post by zenpawn » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:27 pm

If you click through the games starting at #1, the Event label stays the same until they simplify it at Game 10 on, when it also no longer changes, i.e., LC0 is always listed first.
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Re: No chance

Post by Spliffjiffer » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:51 pm

[D]1r3r2/4bpkp/1qb1p1p1/3pP1P1/p1pP1Q2/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K w - - 0 6
6. Qf6+ Bxf6 7. gxf6+ Kg8 ...here LT suggested 8.Ng5?! and thought its winning but i couldnt find anything for white after:
8...h6 9. Rxh6 Ne3!! (only move, 9...Nxa3 looses in various ways, eg: 10.Bf2 11.Qa5 Bg1or 10.Bg4 and white wins )

more natural and probably already winning is 8.Bd2!? :
[D]1r3rk1/5p1p/1qb1pPp1/3pP3/p1pP4/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K w - - 1 8
8. Bd2 Qa5!? (8. .. Nxd4 9. Nxd4 Rb7 10. Rg1 Rc8
11. Rgg3 Qc5 12. Kg2 +-) 9. Bh6 Qxc3 10. bxc3 b2 11. Bxf8 Rxf8 12. Rb1 Rb8 13.
Ng5 Be8 14. Rxh7 Nxa3 15. Rxb2 Rxb2 16. Rg7+ Kh8 17. Bg4 Nc2 18. Bxe6 fxe6
19. Ra7 and i thought this is winning !?

if this is true then LT'S claim of a white win after the queen sac seems correct to me !!?
the position is extremely difficult to spot the wins for white.. i had a deep look for over 2 weeks now so the given lines are deeply anylysed !

any suggestions, questions, commentary welcome
regards, Peer :-)
Wahrheiten sind Illusionen von denen wir aber vergessen haben dass sie welche sind.

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Re: No chance

Post by MikeGL » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:09 pm

zenpawn wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:27 pm
If you click through the games starting at #1, the Event label stays the same until they simplify it at Game 10 on, when it also no longer changes, i.e., LC0 is always listed first.
Good observation, thanks. Made me dizzy browsing that site, maybe there's a reason for the beta prefix in its domain.
Quite confusing website and the games aren't easily accessible, PGN can't be downloaded for private offline analysis which really irritates me.
Spliffjiffer wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:51 pm
[D]1r3r2/4bpkp/1qb1p1p1/3pP1P1/p1pP1Q2/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K w - - 0 6
6. Qf6+ Bxf6 7. gxf6+ Kg8 ...here LT suggested 8.Ng5?! and thought its winning but i couldnt find anything for white after:
8...h6 9. Rxh6 Ne3!! (only move, 9...Nxa3 looses in various ways, eg: 10.Bf2 11.Qa5 Bg1or 10.Bg4 and white wins )

more natural and probably already winning is 8.Bd2!? :
[D]1r3rk1/5p1p/1qb1pPp1/3pP3/p1pP4/PpP2N1R/1Pn1B2P/3RB2K w - - 1 8
8. Bd2 Qa5!? (8. .. Nxd4 9. Nxd4 Rb7 10. Rg1 Rc8
11. Rgg3 Qc5 12. Kg2 +-) 9. Bh6 Qxc3 10. bxc3 b2 11. Bxf8 Rxf8 12. Rb1 Rb8 13.
Ng5 Be8 14. Rxh7 Nxa3 15. Rxb2 Rxb2 16. Rg7+ Kh8 17. Bg4 Nc2 18. Bxe6 fxe6
19. Ra7 and i thought this is winning !?

if this is true then LT'S claim of a white win after the queen sac seems correct to me !!?
the position is extremely difficult to spot the wins for white.. i had a deep look for over 2 weeks now so the given lines are deeply anylysed !

any suggestions, questions, commentary welcome
regards, Peer :-)
after your 8...h6 maybe not 9.Rxh6 but 9.Bd2, now if 9...h5 then 10.Bxh5 1-0
If on the other hand 9...hxg5 then 10.Bxg5 (idea Bh6 -> Bg7 -> Rh8#)
I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.

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