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Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:21 pm
by Sedat Canbaz
Wolfgang wrote:
Sedat Canbaz wrote:....
Usually intelligent people prefer this way...
No, intelligent people don't try to ride a dead horse again and again and again, like you do here, at CSS-forum and probably elsewhere... :evil:

Wolfgang
Ok...I will take it as compliment....thanks )

I wonder too,
Why are you here ?)) if you are intelligent...

And I kindly suggest you to ignore this thread...if you don't like the poll thread...

Btw, you are a Cloner of Igno (this message does not belongs to you ! )

Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:22 pm
by Sedat Canbaz
Update 1

Here are some of the current global voting results (posted in Computerchess forums)
Talkchess: Yes 34 (62%) <-----> No 20 (37%)
CSS: Yes 16 (70%) <-----> No 7 (30%)
Rybkachess: Yes 17 (77%) <-----> No 5 (23%)
Sicilian: Yes 5 (100%) <-----> No 0 (0%)

As I expected,
It looks like in all chess forums: the Poll Winner will be 'YES'

That means,
The majority of the chess friends wish to see Vas active again !)

Thanks a lot to all Voters, without you this exiting poll would not exist !)

More Info Coming Soon...

Best,
Sedat

Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:10 pm
by Sedat Canbaz
deefree49 wrote:Any one who has talent and desire should follow it. If Vasik Rajlich still has the fire burning, it would seem very likely that he'd contribute meaningful ideas to the advancement of computer chess.

Say what you will about him, I don't think his work can be completely discounted. It just isn't true that 100% of Rybka is unoriginal.

Also, a lifetime ban is a completely unfair result even if he did copy a substantial portion of Fruit. If you do that to him, you have to do it to everyone else who copies too. Clearly there was a vendetta of SOME level at work in the Rybka case.

I also notice a lot of rancor associated with this case, some of it vitriolic and aimed at Rajlich. How can he possibly deserve this level of derision and mean spirited rhetoric? Personally it would be preferable to tone it down and keep it more gentlemanly in the discussion. I mean listen to how some people are addressing other people over this!

Getting back to the main question; In my opinion, there isn't enough clear iron clad evidence that Mr. Rajlich is a complete plagiarist. What he did "use" or "copy", he improved DRAMATICALLY. The general consensus seems to be 100 ELO improvement = beyond just copying. Rybka was 300 to 400 ELO points above Fruit! Clearly there was a dramatic amount of original work put into Rybka.

The final bit of evidence is that he was ahead of everyone for YEARS. In my view, it seems jealousy and fear contributed to the case more than any evidence. It is a sad commentary on the accusers.

YES. I HOPE HE RETURNS. I believe the field of chess computing can absolutely use an original and powerful thinker like Vasik. Any other conclusion just seems based in negativity and shortsightedness.
+1

Yes, I hope he will return too

And I am happy that,
I am not along here...thanks a lot for your support !

Best,
Sedat

Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:00 pm
by Evert
deefree49 wrote:What he did "use" or "copy", he improved DRAMATICALLY. The general consensus seems to be 100 ELO improvement = beyond just copying. Rybka was 300 to 400 ELO points above Fruit! Clearly there was a dramatic amount of original work put into Rybka.
Utterly irrelevant.
If he did start with Fruit, then he needs to follow the conditions of the GPL.

Stockfish adds some 400 elo to Glaurung, but it followed the GPL. Guess what? No one complains about it.

Anyway, this whole threat is troll-bait and I guess I should do the smart thing and not feed it.

Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:18 pm
by Sedat Canbaz
Evert wrote:
Anyway, this whole threat is troll-bait and I guess I should do the smart thing and not feed it.
Hehe ) you already started to feed this troll-bait thread...it's too late for complains...)))

And one simple question to you:
What is wrong with opening this poll question?
Would you like to see Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches ?

Is it prohibited...?? is it a troll question?
I wonder also,
Can you tell me please what I need to do, what I need to eat... ??

Enough...

Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:22 pm
by S.Taylor
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Henk wrote:Perhaps he might exist. I miss a copy of his passport but that can be fake too.
Listen well,
Rybka is still one of the best World chess programs !

What about your program: Skipper ??
It looks likes your program is a BIG candidate as World's worst chess program ))
My answer about Vas coming back is actually similar to that very word. "Skipper".

If Vas can skip a few years ahead of Rybka 4.1, then of course, he should come back.
It would be very nice indeed, if owners of great programming discoveries would allow him to develope their ideas further to make a really super engine, way ahead of SF and Komodo.
Maybe, if those prorammers cannot make much more money from their secrets, maybe he can pay them a bit. Perhaps $10k cash?

BUT WAIT ONE SECOND NOW!!!
How short are our memories?
Didn't Vas get lost when he started his cluster project INSTEAD of his normal Rybka engines for pc's?

Whoever in the world says he would do anything different to that, now?

Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:24 pm
by mar
Hi Sedat,
I miss "I don't give a damn" option in your poll for those who don't care.
Who knows which one would win the poll then?

Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:32 pm
by Sedat Canbaz
mar wrote:Hi Sedat,
I miss "I don't give a damn" option in your poll for those who don't care.
Who knows which one would win the poll then?
Hello Martin,

Now it is too late to add a similar option..sorry..

Btw,
Nowadays is fashion to clone others...
That's why maybe someone will clone my thread and then you can see a such option and you will have ability to vote...))


Best,
Sedat

Re: Would you like Vasik Rajlich to comeback in Computerches

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:55 pm
by Sedat Canbaz
S.Taylor wrote:
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Henk wrote:Perhaps he might exist. I miss a copy of his passport but that can be fake too.
Listen well,
Rybka is still one of the best World chess programs !

What about your program: Skipper ??
It looks likes your program is a BIG candidate as World's worst chess program ))
My answer about Vas coming back is actually similar to that very word. "Skipper".

If Vas can skip a few years ahead of Rybka 4.1, then of course, he should come back.
It would be very nice indeed, if owners of great programming discoveries would allow him to develope their ideas further to make a really super engine, way ahead of SF and Komodo.
Maybe, if those prorammers cannot make much more money from their secrets, maybe he can pay them a bit. Perhaps $10k cash?

BUT WAIT ONE SECOND NOW!!!
How short are our memories?
Didn't Vas get lost when he started his cluster project INSTEAD of his normal Rybka engines for pc's?

Whoever in the world says he would do anything different to that, now?
Thanks for your interesting comments )

But anyway...let's hope...if Vas will be again in our hobby, then it will be very good news (for majority of us)

Best,
Sedat

Re: forgive my ignorance...

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:09 am
by pilgrimdan
Sedat Canbaz wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:No, because this time he will have to copy Stockfish. :D
Remember that,
All Top chess programs are each other studied...
Vas clearly stated that he studied from Fruit, but what about Stockfish programers ?
And do you think that all Stockfish's ideas are based only on Glaurung ?
Come on...don't be too naive please...

But however I am very glad that,
Stockfish is another piece of diamond and plus free, once more I say:
BIG thanks to Stockfish team ! Also to Sugar's author , Komodo's authors, Houdini author...
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote: Sedat, do not you have anything else to post about except VR?
It seems you missed to check my previous postings (in 24 -36 hours in Talkchess forum)...I suggest you to open your eyes before posting again naive comments !

Best,
Sedat
'Vas clearly stated that he studied from Fruit'

is that the same thing as saying...

Vas clearly stated that he 'copied' from Fruit