World Computer Chess Championship 2015

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Harvey Williamson
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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by Harvey Williamson » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:39 pm

ernst wrote:Besides operator, isn't Erdo the book creator of Komodo a well?
He is also the guy that won $10000 playing against Jeroens book with, possibly, a weaker engine.

mjlef
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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by mjlef » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:58 pm

Harvey Williamson wrote:
ernst wrote:Besides operator, isn't Erdo the book creator of Komodo a well?
He is also the guy that won $10000 playing against Jeroens book with, possibly, a weaker engine.
I second that! Erdo is smart, friendly, hard working and a great operator, and I am very pleased he offered to help us out. His knowledge about effective openings against computers is amazing. I could not be happier.

As for the book lines, we gave Erdo specific instructions on what we wanted in the book, and he is doing a great job carrying them out.

As a side comment, people should not jump to conclusion looking at a few games from an as yet uncompleted tournament. A hand full of games is not enough to judge the quality of a chess engine or an opening book. Jumping to conclusions without significant evidence is just what you need to end up building a weak engine.

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mclane
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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by mclane » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:23 pm

As long as I can remember the book guys fight endless wars in the forums.
I guess this has to do with them doing chess, that is also kind of war.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by ernst » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:09 pm

mjlef wrote:
Harvey Williamson wrote:
ernst wrote:Besides operator, isn't Erdo the book creator of Komodo a well?
He is also the guy that won $10000 playing against Jeroens book with, possibly, a weaker engine.
I second that! Erdo is smart, friendly, hard working and a great operator, and I am very pleased he offered to help us out. His knowledge about effective openings against computers is amazing. I could not be happier.

As for the book lines, we gave Erdo specific instructions on what we wanted in the book, and he is doing a great job carrying them out.

As a side comment, people should not jump to conclusion looking at a few games from an as yet uncompleted tournament. A hand full of games is not enough to judge the quality of a chess engine or an opening book. Jumping to conclusions without significant evidence is just what you need to end up building a weak engine.
Who, stop! It was just a question, not by any means an attack on Erdo.

However the question got answered nonetheless.
This post may either be cause or result of misunderstanding.

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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by Jeroen » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:23 am

His knowledge about effective openings against computers is amazing. I could not be happier.
You sound like a politician who claims that a bad election result is actually very good :lol:

Looking at the many opening lines Komodo has played sofar, we can conclude that:

1. In the WCCC you left book against Hiarcs in a questionable position with zero winning chances.

2. In the WCCC you played a questionable line against Jonny, which you finally lost costing you the title.

3. In the WCSC you left book against Hiarcs with zero winning chances.

4. In the WCSC you played lines against Ginkgo and Shredder with white that led to absolutely nothing.

Knowing that Komodo is currently the best program available, winning against Stockfish on fast hardware and with slow time controls, the results are hugely disappointing. No title in the WCCC, three draws against weaker opponents in the WCSC.

It is the results that count, not your opinion. Komodo simply fails to impress and the book is largely responsible for that.

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Harvey Williamson
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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by Harvey Williamson » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:53 am

ernst wrote: Who, stop! It was just a question, not by any means an attack on Erdo.

However the question got answered nonetheless.
Ernst,

My comment and I am sure Marks also was not aimed at you.

Cheers,
Harvey

Jeroen
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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by Jeroen » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:28 am

He is also the guy that won $10000 playing against Jeroens book with, possibly, a weaker engine.
I have quite a good (and positive) record against Erdo, thank you.

Same with Hiarcs, by the way.

But I can imagine that you are not entirely satisfied with the current performance of the Hiarcs book, that is throwing away (half) points left and right....

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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by mclane » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:39 am

Let's sum it up.

Hiarcs team should not be satisfied with the opening book performance.
Komodo team should not be satisfied with the opening book performance.
But jeroen noomen is satisfied with his own performance.

That gives us a

Others (Weak)
Others (weak)
Myself (strong)

Formula

I guess we could endlessly continuing this by
Discussing nimzos book or mchess book or ...
Whatever programs book in competitions in relation to
Your own masterpiece of book.

What is the sense of following book lines anyway,
Both sides following a cooked out line of 10 moves or more
Done by an opening expert to find out that the program
Does not understand the position or is left in a lost situation.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....

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hgm
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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by hgm » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:40 am

There is a Dutch saying: "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal".

("The best sailors/ship masters are found ashore")

Jeroen obviously believes in that very deeply! :lol:

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Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2015

Post by Hugo » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:43 am

for some games I had the same impression, but from outside its not so easy to say as when you are directly involved
Jeroen wrote:In the WCSC Komodo has already made 3 draws in 4 rounds: against Ginkgo, Hiarcs and Shredder.

IMO this poor performance is mainly due to questionable opening choices. I wonder if they ever tested these poor lines, or just thought that any book line will do.

Same for Hiarcs, that plays +25 moves out of book and then finds itself in a totally drawn position (against Protector) and even a bad position (against Ginkgo).

Poor book choices decide these tournaments. :roll:
Last edited by Hugo on Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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