Fritz 15.0

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TShackel
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Fritz 15.0

Post by TShackel » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:32 pm

Hi all,

Some have wondered if Fritz 15.0 would be a UCI engine that can work in any interface, or if it will just be an .eng file that works only in fritz gui. I asked that question to chessbase, and they replied simply that Fritz 15.0 "will be" a UCI engine.

I replied back to them asking if they'd just sell the UCI engine to the public for a lesser price (or at least have an option for that) and I hope they will respond back to me about that, although they haven't yet.

So at least we know it will be a UCI engine.

Sincerely,

Tim.

Sean Evans
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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by Sean Evans » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:37 pm

Trust me they will not sell a cheaper UCI only engine!

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AdminX
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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by AdminX » Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:44 pm

Image
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Modern Times
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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by Modern Times » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:09 pm

I wonder which codebase Vas worked on - the existing Fritz 14, or his own Rybka 4.1 code. If the later, +35 isn't great at all.
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Opinions expressed here are my own, and not necessarily those of the CCRL Group.

Damir
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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by Damir » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:20 pm

Fritz 15 is buggy. I talked to a German guy who bought it, and he told me that after new start, Fritz 15 must be activated again, even though he already did it the 1st time...

TShackel
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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by TShackel » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:47 pm

AdminX wrote:Image
Hi,

Thanks for posting that. I was going to say it in this thread but you beat me to it. Yes, Fritz 15.0 is over 100 points better than 14.0 and +35 compared to Rybka 4.1

I think everyone should give Vas a little time to get used to this idea of working on Fritz. I think everyone wanted to see an improvement from Rybka 4.1 and I think we've seen that. I think when fritz 16.0 is released it will be a more impressive elo change.

Sincerely,

Tim.

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lucasart
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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by lucasart » Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:35 am

TShackel wrote:
AdminX wrote:Image
Hi,

Thanks for posting that. I was going to say it in this thread but you beat me to it. Yes, Fritz 15.0 is over 100 points better than 14.0 and +35 compared to Rybka 4.1

I think everyone should give Vas a little time to get used to this idea of working on Fritz. I think everyone wanted to see an improvement from Rybka 4.1 and I think we've seen that. I think when fritz 16.0 is released it will be a more impressive elo change.

Sincerely,

Tim.
Fritz 15 is not based on Fritz, it's based on Rybka. It is the Rybka 5. Only the name changed, for marketing reasons. So it should be compared to Rybka 4.1, not Fritz 14.

And Fritz 14 is not Fritz either, it's Pandix, a different engine by a different author. The last Fritz by Franz Morsch was Fritz 13. F14=Pandix F15=Rybka. What next ? Seeing that they are still 200 elo behind SF, and that bridging the gap is not going to be possible by conventional means, they might decide to make F16 a SF clone. After all, Rybka started from Fruit, why not restart from SF ? And chessbase is selling free syzygy for an extortionate price, why not sell free SF too ?
Theory and practice sometimes clash. And when that happens, theory loses. Every single time.

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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by Roger Brown » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:06 am

lucasart wrote: Fritz 15 is not based on Fritz, it's based on Rybka. It is the Rybka 5. Only the name changed, for marketing reasons. So it should be compared to Rybka 4.1, not Fritz 14.

And Fritz 14 is not Fritz either, it's Pandix, a different engine by a different author. The last Fritz by Franz Morsch was Fritz 13. F14=Pandix F15=Rybka. What next ? Seeing that they are still 200 elo behind SF, and that bridging the gap is not going to be possible by conventional means, they might decide to make F16 a SF clone. After all, Rybka started from Fruit, why not restart from SF ? And chessbase is selling free syzygy for an extortionate price, why not sell free SF too ?
Hello Lucas,

I am concerned about that last point.

Stockfish's licence explicitly indicates that it can be sold as long as the source is supplied.

Why (I know, I know, freedom of ideas etc.) would you and the SF team include that clause for a commercial juggernaut like Chessbase to take advantage of?

Just curious...

I had asked Ronald about the selling of his terrific, free bases by Chessbase, but he is of a similar bent as yourselves.

:-)

Later.

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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by bob » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:35 am

Roger Brown wrote:
lucasart wrote: Fritz 15 is not based on Fritz, it's based on Rybka. It is the Rybka 5. Only the name changed, for marketing reasons. So it should be compared to Rybka 4.1, not Fritz 14.

And Fritz 14 is not Fritz either, it's Pandix, a different engine by a different author. The last Fritz by Franz Morsch was Fritz 13. F14=Pandix F15=Rybka. What next ? Seeing that they are still 200 elo behind SF, and that bridging the gap is not going to be possible by conventional means, they might decide to make F16 a SF clone. After all, Rybka started from Fruit, why not restart from SF ? And chessbase is selling free syzygy for an extortionate price, why not sell free SF too ?
Hello Lucas,

I am concerned about that last point.

Stockfish's licence explicitly indicates that it can be sold as long as the source is supplied.

Why (I know, I know, freedom of ideas etc.) would you and the SF team include that clause for a commercial juggernaut like Chessbase to take advantage of?

Just curious...

I had asked Ronald about the selling of his terrific, free bases by Chessbase, but he is of a similar bent as yourselves.

:-)

Later.
I think Lucas, Ronald and others recognize that there is "legally right" and "morally right". The two are NOT the same thing in many cases. It is absolutely egregious to sell EGTBs for much more than the medium costs, etc., as the idea is you are saving someone the hassle of downloading a ton of data. But not THAT much. As far as selling SF goes, they have not minded selling Houdini don't forget, a clear ripoff of the ippolit/robolito completely free engine that might be a ripoff of another engine for all we know...

Have you ever walked down a major street in Net York, been accosted by all the camera store salesman standing in the doorways, those that want to sell you a $500 f1.2 50mm "Zeiss" camera lens that is a pure ripoff made in China? Sleazy is as sleazy does...

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Leto
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Re: Fritz 15.0

Post by Leto » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:45 am

bob wrote:
Roger Brown wrote:
lucasart wrote: Fritz 15 is not based on Fritz, it's based on Rybka. It is the Rybka 5. Only the name changed, for marketing reasons. So it should be compared to Rybka 4.1, not Fritz 14.

And Fritz 14 is not Fritz either, it's Pandix, a different engine by a different author. The last Fritz by Franz Morsch was Fritz 13. F14=Pandix F15=Rybka. What next ? Seeing that they are still 200 elo behind SF, and that bridging the gap is not going to be possible by conventional means, they might decide to make F16 a SF clone. After all, Rybka started from Fruit, why not restart from SF ? And chessbase is selling free syzygy for an extortionate price, why not sell free SF too ?
Hello Lucas,

I am concerned about that last point.

Stockfish's licence explicitly indicates that it can be sold as long as the source is supplied.

Why (I know, I know, freedom of ideas etc.) would you and the SF team include that clause for a commercial juggernaut like Chessbase to take advantage of?

Just curious...

I had asked Ronald about the selling of his terrific, free bases by Chessbase, but he is of a similar bent as yourselves.

:-)

Later.
I think Lucas, Ronald and others recognize that there is "legally right" and "morally right". The two are NOT the same thing in many cases. It is absolutely egregious to sell EGTBs for much more than the medium costs, etc., as the idea is you are saving someone the hassle of downloading a ton of data. But not THAT much. As far as selling SF goes, they have not minded selling Houdini don't forget, a clear ripoff of the ippolit/robolito completely free engine that might be a ripoff of another engine for all we know...

Have you ever walked down a major street in Net York, been accosted by all the camera store salesman standing in the doorways, those that want to sell you a $500 f1.2 50mm "Zeiss" camera lens that is a pure ripoff made in China? Sleazy is as sleazy does...
Houdini a rip-off of Ippolit/robolito? Isn't Houdini 4 still stronger than the strongest Ippolit and Robolito despite the fact that H4 has been out for two years?

I'm very glad to hear that indeed Fritz 15 is a uci engine. Judging from the result of the 1CPU test from Ingo it probably is the long-awaited Rybka 5. Hopefully Fritz 16 will surpass Gull 3, maybe even Houdini 4.

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