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Re: Funny mate in 16!

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:44 pm
by bnst
[d]8/1p1p1p1p/3P1P2/pp5P/kp6/1p4P1/1P4P1/2K5 w - - 0 1

Now this is a well known theme and a computer solves it in no time. It is fun though to solve it yourself since it has some tricky variations. But the really funny part is that if you decide that only knight promotions are legal you can solve it in one move less :)

Best regards
Andreas

Re: Funny mate in 6

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:47 pm
by lech
Dann Corbit wrote:Jesús Muñoz made a nice summary here:
http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 52&t=59276


SOLVED THE POSITION (10 engines):

As far as solvers, first the dedicated mate finders (not surprising):

Code: Select all

Seconds  Engine
 0.009   ChestUCI (version?)
 0.330   SF Matefinder (by Ellis)
 1.000   Chest 3.19 (command line version) ---> the exact solving time is not reported
 1.321   SF Matefinder (other version)
then the general purpose engines:

Code: Select all

Seconds  Engine
 0.424   Houdini 4 Pro (Tactical Mode)
 0.476   Critter 1.6a
 1.930   Sting 6
 2.020   Houdini 4 Pro
 7.657   Strelka 6
49.625   Gull 3
I only gave a minute each, so I guess others can solve it.

I notice that all of the solvers except sting are at least influenced by Ivanhoe or Rybka family tree. I did not study Sting enough to know if there are any Ivanhoe/Rybka techniques in it like the huge material imbalance table.
Sting uses my original ideas only, with exception that is based on Stockfish 2.1.1 and it doesn't help in question to solve any tough positions. :)

Re: Funny mate in 16!

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:03 pm
by zullil
bnst wrote:[d]8/1p1p1p1p/3P1P2/pp5P/kp6/1p4P1/1P4P1/2K5 w - - 0 1

If you decide that only knight promotions are legal you can solve it in one move less :)

Best regards
Andreas
Cute observation. White can simply promote to a knight for a third time and then ignore the black passer, since it can only promote without check.

Re: Funny mate in 6

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:05 pm
by rabbits23
Chessmaster 10 announces mates fairly quickly
Allan


Time Depth Score Positions Moves
1:24 7/16 Mate06 98863429 1.ˆh1 d4 2.ˆa1 d3 3.ˆa3 bxa3+ 4.‹a1
a2 5.†a3 ‹xf6 6.†b2#
1:30 8/17 Mate06 105144356 1.ˆh1 d4 2.ˆa1 d3 3.ˆa3 bxa3+ 4.‹a1
a2 5.†a3 ‹xf6 6.†b2#
1:33 9/18 Mate06 108103379 1.ˆh1 d4 2.ˆa1 d3 3.ˆa3 bxa3+ 4.‹a1
a2 5.†a3 ‹xf6 6.†b2#
1:35 10/19 Mate06 109936361 1.ˆh1 d4 2.ˆa1 d3 3.ˆa3 bxa3+ 4.‹a1
a2 5.†a3 ‹xf6 6.†b2#
1:38 11/20 Mate06 111521713 1.ˆh1 d4 2.ˆa1 d3 3.ˆa3 bxa3+ 4.‹a1
a2 5.†a3 ‹xf6 6.†b2#

Re: Funny mate in 6

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:47 pm
by mar
As usual, it's null-move related.
Disabling nmp makes this a matter of 1-2 seconds, there's a reason why I have a nullmove checkbox in engine params, no need for fake lobotomized SF version :)

Re: Funny mate in 16!

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:55 pm
by bnst
zullil wrote:
bnst wrote:[d]8/1p1p1p1p/3P1P2/pp5P/kp6/1p4P1/1P4P1/2K5 w - - 0 1

If you decide that only knight promotions are legal you can solve it in one move less :)

Best regards
Andreas
Cute observation. White can simply promote to a knight for a third time and then ignore the black passer, since it can only promote without check.
And the computers won't help you with that one :)

Re: Funny mate in 6

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:56 pm
by mar
mar wrote:no need for fake lobotomized SF version :)
To make myself clear: I don't mean Sting, it's an awesome project and I use it to analyze difficult positions, I guess it's obvious now what I mean (those who fork latest SF and make random 10 line changes)

Re: Funny mate in 16!

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:14 pm
by BBauer
My modified SF

Code: Select all

FEN: 8/1p1p1p1p/3P1P2/pp5P/kp6/1p4P1/1P4P1/2K5 w - - 0 1

St-mod-16-02-08:
 8/8	00:00	 473	158k	+5,82	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 b7-b6 g5-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6xh5
 9/9	00:00	 699	233k	+5,82	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 b7-b6 g5-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6xh5 f7-f8Q
 10/15	00:00	 4k	902k	+5,53	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7
 11/18	00:00	 7k	1.129k	+5,45	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 Kc1-b1
 12/18	00:00	 9k	1.256k	+0,14	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4
 13/18	00:00	 9k	1.343k	+4,72	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6
 14/21	00:00	 10k	1.386k	+4,84	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7
 15/21	00:00	 10k	1.265k	+5,62	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7 e6-e5 d7-d8Q
 16/26	00:00	 11k	1.222k	+6,56	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7 e6-e5 d7-d8Q e5-e4 Qd8xb6
 17/29	00:00	 12k	1.155k	+7,01	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7 e6-e5 d7-d8Q e5-e4 Qd8xb6 e4-e3 Qb6-c7
 18/32	00:00	 20k	1.123k	+M16	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7
 19/32	00:00	 20k	1.138k	+M16	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7
 20/32	00:00	 21k	1.097k	+M16	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7 e6-e5
 21/32	00:00	 21k	1.115k	+M16	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7 e6-e5 d7-d8Q
 22/32	00:00	 22k	1.133k	+M16	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7 e6-e5 d7-d8Q e5-e4
 23/32	00:00	 22k	1.117k	+M16	g3-g4 h7-h6 g4-g5 h6xg5 h5-h6 g5-g4 h6-h7 b7-b6 h7-h8N g4-g3 Nh8-g6 f7xg6 f6-f7 g6-g5 f7-f8N g5-g4 Nf8-e6 d7xe6 d6-d7 e6-e5 d7-d8Q e5-e4 Qd8-h4
So the computer helps :D :D
Kind regards
Bernhard

Re: Funny mate in 16!

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:20 pm
by bnst
It solves the mate in 16 easily but I was refering to the solution in one move less when you add the limitation that only knight promotions are legal. I modified my own program to solve it that way though so in a way you are right.

Regards
Andreas

Re: Funny mate in 6

Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:34 pm
by MikeB
Current Developmental Crafty 25.1a M09 finds almost instantly

Code: Select all

Black(1): n1N3br/2p1Bpkr/1pP2R1b/pP1p1PpR/Pp4P1/1P6/1K1P4/8 w - - 0 1
White(1): go
        time surplus   0.00  time limit 15.00 (15.00)
        depth     time       score   variation (1)
starting thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 <done>
         28->   1.03/15.00    6.90   1. Rh1 d4 2. Nd6 cxd6 3. Rxd6 f6 4. Bxf6+
                                     Kf7 5. Bxd4 Nc7 6. Rd7+ Ke8 7. Bxh8 Rxd7
                                     8. cxd7+ Kxd7 9. Rxh6 Nd5 10. Bd4 Nf4
                                     11. Bxb6 Nd3+ 12. Kc2 Ne1+ 13. Kb1 Bxb3
                                     14. Rh7+ Kd6 15. Bxa5 Nc2 16. b6 Bxa4
                                     17. b7 Na3+ 18. Ka2
         29     1.60/15.00    6.39   1. Rh1 d4 2. Nd6 cxd6 3. Rxd6 f6 4. Bxf6+
                                     Kf7 5. Bxd4 Nc7 6. Rd7+ Ke8 7. Bxh8 Rxd7
                                     8. cxd7+ Kxd7 9. Rxh6 Nd5 10. Bd4 Nf4
                                     11. Bxb6 Nd3+ 12. Kc2 Ne1+ 13. Kb1 Bxb3
                                     14. Rh7+ Kc8 15. Rc7+ Kb8 16. f6 Nf3
                                     17. f7 Nxd2+ 18. Kc1 Bxf7 19. Rxf7
         29->   1.70/15.00    6.39   1. Rh1 d4 2. Nd6 cxd6 3. Rxd6 f6 4. Bxf6+
                                     Kf7 5. Bxd4 Nc7 6. Rd7+ Ke8 7. Bxh8 Rxd7
                                     8. cxd7+ Kxd7 9. Rxh6 Nd5 10. Bd4 Nf4
                                     11. Bxb6 Nd3+ 12. Kc2 Ne1+ 13. Kb1 Bxb3
                                     14. Rh7+ Kc8 15. Rc7+ Kb8 16. f6 Nf3
                                     17. f7 Nxd2+ 18. Kc1 Bxf7 19. Rxf7
         30     2.72/15.00    8.68   1. Rh1 d4 2. Re1 d3 3. Nd6 cxd6 4. Rxd6 f6
                                     5. Bxf6+ Kf8 6. Rd8+ Kf7 7. Bxh8 Rxh8
                                     8. Rxa8 Bg7+ 9. Kb1 Be5 10. Rxe5 Rh1+
                                     11. Kb2 Rd1 12. Rd5 Rxd2+ 13. Kc1 Rc2+
                                     14. Kd1 Kg7 15. Rd7+ Bf7 16. Raa7 Kf6
                                     17. Rxf7+ Ke5 18. Rad7 Rc3 19. Rfe7+ Kf4
                                     20. Kd2
         30->   2.83/15.00    8.68   1. Rh1 d4 2. Re1 d3 3. Nd6 cxd6 4. Rxd6 f6
                                     5. Bxf6+ Kf8 6. Rd8+ Kf7 7. Bxh8 Rxh8
                                     8. Rxa8 Bg7+ 9. Kb1 Be5 10. Rxe5 Rh1+
                                     11. Kb2 Rd1 12. Rd5 Rxd2+ 13. Kc1 Rc2+
                                     14. Kd1 Kg7 15. Rd7+ Bf7 16. Raa7 Kf6
                                     17. Rxf7+ Ke5 18. Rad7 Rc3 19. Rfe7+ Kf4
                                     20. Kd2
         31     3.06/15.00    9.12   1. Rh1 d4 2. Re1 d3 3. Nd6 cxd6 4. Rxd6 f6
                                     5. Bxf6+ Kf8 6. Rd8+ Kf7 7. Bxh8 Rxh8
                                     8. Rxa8 Bg7+ 9. Kb1 Be5 10. Rxe5 Rh1+
                                     11. Kb2 Rd1 12. Rd5 Rxd2+ 13. Kc1 Rc2+
                                     14. Kd1 Kg7 15. Rd7+ Bf7 16. Raa7 Kf6
                                     17. Rxf7+ Ke5 18. Rad7 Rc5 19. Rxd3 Kf4
                                     20. Rd4+ Ke5
         31->   3.23/15.00    9.12   1. Rh1 d4 2. Re1 d3 3. Nd6 cxd6 4. Rxd6 f6
                                     5. Bxf6+ Kf8 6. Rd8+ Kf7 7. Bxh8 Rxh8
                                     8. Rxa8 Bg7+ 9. Kb1 Be5 10. Rxe5 Rh1+
                                     11. Kb2 Rd1 12. Rd5 Rxd2+ 13. Kc1 Rc2+
                                     14. Kd1 Kg7 15. Rd7+ Bf7 16. Raa7 Kf6
                                     17. Rxf7+ Ke5 18. Rad7 Rc5 19. Rxd3 Kf4
                                     20. Rd4+ Ke5
         32     3.74/15.00   Mat08   1. Rh1 d4 2. Rc1 d3 3. Nd6 cxd6 4. c7 Nxc7
                                     5. Rxc7 d5 6. Rxb6 f6 7. Bxf6+ Kf8 8. Rb8#
         32->   3.77/15.00   Mat08   1. Rh1 d4 2. Rc1 d3 3. Nd6 cxd6 4. c7 Nxc7
                                     5. Rxc7 d5 6. Rxb6 f6 7. Bxf6+ Kf8 8. Rb8#
        time=3.77&#40;71%)  nodes=173140793&#40;173.1M&#41;  fh1=86%  pred=0  nps=45.9M
        chk=6.7M  qchk=10.3M  fp=73.6M  mcp=4.6M  50move=1
        LMReductions&#58;  1/2.0M  2/1.4M  3/1.3M  4/727.7K  5/160.5K  6/13.3K
              7/472
        null-move &#40;R&#41;&#58;  3/6.0M  4/1.1M  5/74.5K  6/5.1K  7/205  8/1
        splits=119.5K&#40;58.5K&#41;  aborts=8.5K  joins=318.7K  data=25%&#40;31%)

mate in 8 moves.