Brainfish, a new concept of a chess engine

[jefk]

[quote="clumma"]
I meant in terms of search. Thomas (*) has stated the database contains middlegame positions, apparently disjoint from complete opening lines. So it can function like a tablebase in terms of search. access is just as fast as what Brainfish is doing... but maybe not (?).
-Carl[/quote]

not; and also not new. Other chess programs in the nineties
tried it, but chances you get the same postion after eg
move 25 are something like one in a billion.
As for your derogatory comments about my writing,
well as i said i have some 25 yrs parttime experience
in computer chess. One more of such insulting
comments and i have to notify a moderator (as
the Dutch say, three times is ships right; and i
can also defend myself on my own, or start
a quarrel if that's what you're after).

Explaining for others, in IT you have several sorts
of people, programmers, users, analysts, and
commercial guys; often they are on there own
planet and cannot communicate with others.
Programmers tend to be stubborn, btw,
and in chess its even worse; chess players, the
better they become, also tend to be stubborn.
And that an understatement; as correspondence
player at master level i tend to be a bit slower;
but don't underestimate me would be my advice.

So what's your chess rating Lumma ? (just curious);

And how many yrs have you been in computer chess;
and i don't care about your moderating experience, i've
been moderator myself as well on internet, and i know
you should then at least know what you're talking about.
jef

http://home.planet.nl/~jefkaan/jank.html
https://www.amazon.com/Better-Chess-Ope ... 1326180770
https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Jan+Kaan
( a bit out of date, but anyway)

PS (*) programmer of 'cerebellum is btw probably a
certain Stefan Z, not Thomas; the latter appears
to be only the commercial guy, so in relative terms
he seems to know z about computer chess.

[Ozymandias]

I'm not trying to help Thomas, I'm pointing out gratuitous negativity and nonproductive comments, and the (obvious) fact that Thomas has built something interesting.

Thomas did not claim Brainfish is a "new engine" in the sense Jef mentioned. He very clearly stated it is just the latest Stockfish with stored eval. So you can stop cherry picking phrases from his posts (whose native language is not English) in support of some incoherent argument you don't even really want to make.

Talk about incoherence and negativity!

1- Defending and praising someone IS trying to help him.
2- Jeff didn't say that Thomas claimed such a thing.
3- Quoting an opening statement can hardly be cherry picking.
4- My argument HAS been made, point out the incoherence.
5- My native language isn't English either, but I don't need anyone presenting excuses in my behalf.
6- Go "moderate" somewhere else.

[Guenther]

I'm not trying to help Thomas, I'm pointing out gratuitous negativity and nonproductive comments, and the (obvious) fact that Thomas has built something interesting.

Thomas did not claim Brainfish is a "new engine" in the sense Jef mentioned. He very clearly stated it is just the latest Stockfish with stored eval. So you can stop cherry picking phrases from his posts (whose native language is not English) in support of some incoherent argument you don't even really want to make.

Talk about incoherence and negativity!

1- Defending and praising someone IS trying to help him.
2- Jeff didn't say that Thomas claimed such a thing.
3- Quoting an opening statement can hardly be cherry picking.
4- My argument HAS been made, point out the incoherence.
5- My native language isn't English either, but I don't need anyone presenting excuses in my behalf.
6- Go "moderate" somewhere else.

This lumma thing seems to be a sleeper troll which was triggered by a certain event...

We could have saved some time by just ignoring him, because he was already revealed long ago , pfffffft....
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 08&t=55390

[Ozymandias]

I'm not trying to help Thomas, I'm pointing out gratuitous negativity and nonproductive comments, and the (obvious) fact that Thomas has built something interesting.

Thomas did not claim Brainfish is a "new engine" in the sense Jef mentioned. He very clearly stated it is just the latest Stockfish with stored eval. So you can stop cherry picking phrases from his posts (whose native language is not English) in support of some incoherent argument you don't even really want to make.

Talk about incoherence and negativity!

1- Defending and praising someone IS trying to help him.
2- Jeff didn't say that Thomas claimed such a thing.
3- Quoting an opening statement can hardly be cherry picking.
4- My argument HAS been made, point out the incoherence.
5- My native language isn't English either, but I don't need anyone presenting excuses in my behalf.
6- Go "moderate" somewhere else.

This lumma thing seems to be a sleeper troll which was triggered by a certain event...

We could have saved some time by just ignoring him, because he was already revealed long ago , pfffffft....
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 08&t=55390

Thnx for the info, that's a sound suggestion.

[clumma]

We could have saved some time by just ignoring him, because he was already revealed long ago

Marco and I subsequently made amends, in that thread. Anyhow, my personal disposition is hardly relevant to the fact that there has been gratuitous negativity about Brainfish in this thread (and I am not the only one to point it out).

-Carl

[clumma]

And how many yrs have you been in computer chess

Wow, a personal challenge!

PS (*) programmer of 'cerebellum is btw probably a certain Stefan Z, not Thomas

Sounds like one for the engine origins forum. There, you can argue all day about who has more knowledge of computer chess.

-Carl

[jefk]

[quote="clumma"]]
Sounds like one for the engine origins forum.
-Carl[/quote]
nope, engine is Stockfish;
and this is Stefan Zipproth
https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Stefan+Zipproth
apparently he also made some malware
http://www.shouldiremoveit.com/straton- ... ogram.aspx

As for Carl Lumma, this is probably a progammer
from Apple, otb rating approx 1486, and indeed
apparenly half troll and half nitwit.

For the rest i notice we are not so much on topic anymore.
Ofcourse i'm not into a witch hunt about engine
cloning and whatever stuff, but i only notice
that Thomas Z apparently the older brother of
Stefan Z got some idea going commercial with
some little app and then some idiot users from
the Usa or India not having the faintest clue
about what they are talking about going to attack
anyone like me trying to give some positive feedback.
well i'm used to idiots in the chess world.
make my day

[jefk]

[quote="clumma"][quote="jefk"]And how many yrs have you been in computer chess[/quote]
Wow, a personal challenge!
[/quote]

wasn't a personal challenge, just an observation.
you indeed seem to be trolling. stay on topic or get a life.
either within Apple or somewhere else. you're a yank right ?
maybe you can work for McDonalds or so when you're
fired; should i mail your boss about what kind of punk
you are. want to have a party; like this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFemi7wkng4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ishbTwXf1g

well have fun.
tip from me, don't start to compain to moderators
here, you started; Bob Hyatt is from Texas, and
best he can do is simply ban some scum like you,

[jefk]

[quote="jefk"]
don't start to compain to moderators[/quote]

little typo, compLain ofcourse;
hope you enjoyed my little youtube intermezzo's;
at least i did. as for complaints about 'negativity'
thats bullshit, i just gave some technical feedback.
and honest advice about the commercial endeavors;
that's not negativity; that's help (you don't have
the faintest idea about how the russians copy
everything in the chess world to each other; and others
who know about it ); so again, not much chance for
commercial succes; or you like to talk with the Z
brothers and make a little apple app ? well good luck;
steve jobs might be proud of you in this afterlife (not); oh
and while you're going, the're still hiring apparently :
http://www.apple.com/jobs/us/
but i dont' think they're interested in computer chess.
jef
PS back on topic i'll be happy to give some feedback
to (stefan?) Ziprot in the programming forum while
he's continuing this project; in the meantime i'll let
the -fortunately rare- idiots in this 'general topics' for
what they are; idiots, sleep trolls or whatever;
have fun

[Thomas Zipproth]

Development of opening theory continues, and in this Cerebellum
tool there also will be no possibility (in GUI) to edit/add book moves;
normally you can add in ChessPartner a GUI book which you can
edit/adapt , and play with engine book combined (not sure
how this is done precisely, but it seems to be possible);
but as it is now, i suspect Cerebellum will override any
GUI bookmoves, which wouldn't be ideal for fast blitz or
correspondence chess. For the latter, when using minimax,
eval (at the end of opening stage) is the key; for each
engine update (stockfish, komodo) you have to generate
the whole book again completely, and i don't know how
much time this will cost (at least a few days, i suspect)
jef

Just reading all the comments, I will try to give some answers.

The complete recalculation of Cerebellum would take 2 years on two fast quad cores, and here in germany about 1000$ energy costs.
But it is not necessary to recalculate the whole library if the engine was only updated, I described this in depth here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/f ... ynu5sHBwAJ

Minimaxing the tree after some positions where added takes about 10 minutes (in fact the problem it is a bit complex than only minimaxing).
In the GUI you can manually overide any move (For playing or for a personal repertoire).

Thomas