What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: Harvey Williamson, bob, hgm

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
Post Reply
User avatar
George
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:44 pm

What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by George » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:06 am

Without letting your Komodo 9 or Stockfish autoplay this position, by simply looking at it what side do you think has a better chance of winning, and what do you say about the value of the Queen after you find out ?
[D]2bqkbnr/ppp1p1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQk - 0 1 [D]

Stockfish 7 x64:
Stockfish 7 x64

JJJ
Posts: 1317
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:47 am

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by JJJ » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:08 am

Without testing with any Engines, I would say black is better. I will check with stockfish now :)

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:15 am

White simply wins.

You can not separate eval factors from one another, there is a big bunch of 15-20 queen-value-related terms that play a role here.

User avatar
yurikvelo
Posts: 583
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:53 pm

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by yurikvelo » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:56 am

SF-dev, 100+MN per move (at some unstable moves 300...500...2500 MN)
[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2016.07.27"]
[White "Stockfish_16072409"]
[Black "Stockfish_16072409"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "2bqkbnr/ppp1p1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQk - 0 1"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. e3 Bg4 3. d3 Bxf3 4. gxf3 Qd5 5. Nd2 Nd7 6. Ne4 Qc6 7. c4 g6
8. Be2 Qb6 9. Bd2 Bg7 10. Rb1 O-O 11. O-O Nc5 12. Nc3 g5 13. Rfd1 Qh6 *
[/pgn]
=0.00

On 11. ..Nc5 eval is up to +0.67, but at some D suddenly drops

User avatar
George
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:44 pm

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by George » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:02 pm

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:White simply wins.

You can not separate eval factors from one another, there is a big bunch of 15-20 queen-value-related terms that play a role here.
Probably you found out by now, but what if I give you this even position with Black side to start the game on autoplay ? But first try to guess which side will win this time ?
[D]2bqkbnr/ppppp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR b KQk - 0 1 [D]

User avatar
George
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:44 pm

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by George » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:06 pm

yurikvelo wrote:SF-dev, 100+MN per move (at some unstable moves 300...500...2500 MN)
[pgn]
[Event "Computer chess game"]
[Date "2016.07.27"]
[White "Stockfish_16072409"]
[Black "Stockfish_16072409"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "2bqkbnr/ppp1p1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQk - 0 1"]

1. Nf3 Nf6 2. e3 Bg4 3. d3 Bxf3 4. gxf3 Qd5 5. Nd2 Nd7 6. Ne4 Qc6 7. c4 g6
8. Be2 Qb6 9. Bd2 Bg7 10. Rb1 O-O 11. O-O Nc5 12. Nc3 g5 13. Rfd1 Qh6 *
[/pgn]
=0.00

On 11. ..Nc5 eval is up to +0.67, but at some D suddenly drops
White win with the extra pawn, but do NOT play just a few moves let your engine play the entire game at time control of 30 minutes.

User avatar
yurikvelo
Posts: 583
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:53 pm

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by yurikvelo » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:10 pm

George wrote:White win with the extra pawn, but do NOT play just a few moves let your engine play the entire game at time control of 30 minutes.
can you provide example of winning PGN?

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:36 pm

George wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:White simply wins.

You can not separate eval factors from one another, there is a big bunch of 15-20 queen-value-related terms that play a role here.
Probably you found out by now, but what if I give you this even position with Black side to start the game on autoplay ? But first try to guess which side will win this time ?
[D]2bqkbnr/ppppp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR b KQk - 0 1 [D]
f7 is an important pawn, it also affects black king safety, but, with black on the move, I hesitate between draw and white wins.

In any case, white has an advantage.

User avatar
George
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:44 pm

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by George » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:20 pm

Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
George wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:White simply wins.

You can not separate eval factors from one another, there is a big bunch of 15-20 queen-value-related terms that play a role here.
Probably you found out by now, but what if I give you this even position with Black side to start the game on autoplay ? But first try to guess which side will win this time ?
[D]2bqkbnr/ppppp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR b KQk - 0 1 [D]
f7 is an important pawn, it also affects black king safety, but, with black on the move, I hesitate between draw and white wins.

In any case, white has an advantage.
I let Stockfish play it out at 60 minutes per side and it ended in a draw after the 50 moves rule the game ended with 138 moves .

Lyudmil Tsvetkov
Posts: 6052
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:41 am

Re: What do you think the value of the Queen should be ?

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:32 pm

George wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:
George wrote:
Lyudmil Tsvetkov wrote:White simply wins.

You can not separate eval factors from one another, there is a big bunch of 15-20 queen-value-related terms that play a role here.
Probably you found out by now, but what if I give you this even position with Black side to start the game on autoplay ? But first try to guess which side will win this time ?
[D]2bqkbnr/ppppp1pp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR b KQk - 0 1 [D]
f7 is an important pawn, it also affects black king safety, but, with black on the move, I hesitate between draw and white wins.

In any case, white has an advantage.
I let Stockfish play it out at 60 minutes per side and it ended in a draw after the 50 moves rule the game ended with 138 moves .
who had positive score at the start and later in the game?

Post Reply