Man, do not be pathetic.jefk wrote:active position ? White simply plays 10.h3 and is better,carldaman wrote: 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5? 3.e4 g6 4.Nc3!! d6 5.Bd3 Bg7 6.f4 Ng8e7
7.fxe5! Bxe5 8.Ng1f3 Bg7 9.Bf4 O-O 10.Qd2 Bg4 11.O-O-O
Your 6.f4 above looks dubious in light of 6...exf4!, giving life to the B on g7 [instead of 6...Ne7(?)], and Black could follow up with 7.Bxf4 Nf6!? 8.Nf3 0-0 and if 9.0-0 Bg4 with an active position.
open f line for the rook. 6.f4 is quite good also in the statistics which
you can see in the second ref i give further below.
would also be good for White (but Nc4 can wait, depending whethercarldaman wrote: Maybe 6.Nf3 is better, followed by 7.Nd2!? and Nc4, but then Black can get f5-f4 in with a messy position where White has to avoid castling Kingside.
Black plays Nge7 or simply Nf6; in the latter case Nh5 is an possibility,
in the former f5 is followed by exf5 and White is better again.
it's not another move order, it's another variations, Lyudmilcarldaman wrote: In Lyudmil's original move order,
1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 3.c4 d6 4. Nc3 g6 5. e4 Bg7 6. Bd3 Ne7, Black can try to counter the h4 idea with h6 as Lyudmil pointed out
(Both move orders are classified as a 'Semi-Benoni' - A44)
plays c4, whereas i think first Nc3 is better Yes it becomes
a semi-Benoni after White plays e4, but White also can first play
Nc3, which still is old Benoni.
http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=6 ... .d5.e5.Nc3
Anyway then with e4 it will transpose to semi-Benoni..
http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=9 ... .d6.Nc3.g6
NB (you and L.T) you don't have to be chess365 member
to see statistics , and even some games in the above link
Simply above right click on game list. Maybe you can find
some games with h6 after h4. In the statistics h4 scores
even better than f4 but that might be wrong indeed.
Please do not discuss about this and that, but just tell me straigth to the point:
[d]rnbqk2r/pp2npb1/3p3p/2pPp1pP/2P1P3/2NB4/PP3PP1/R1BQK1NR w KQkq - 0 9
- is the above position I posted and am reposting now, which is crucial for the line, a dead draw or not?
- how can white possibly improve on its play? (you suggest 7.h4 is best for white, and I am showing you in 2 moves' time black has at least a secure draw)
- is not a dead drawn position on move 8 a big success for the black player, as well as a weighty argument 1.d4 is very far from optimal?
You say, well, white can improve by first playing Nc3.
In the line 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 3.Nc3, as I said, black plays g6, and then fianchettoes the bishop:
[d]rnbqkbnr/pp1p1p1p/6p1/2pPp3/8/2N5/PPP1PPPP/R1BQKBNR w KQkq - 0 4
Black is quite comfortable here, in any case more comfortable than in the c4 line
The point of the discussion is not to quibble, but to show that there are moves and better moves. 1.d4 certainly is not the best move.
Are you aware what the last 3 world champions (Carlsen excluded, he just seems to want to play chess, originally, not following any rules) consitently played?
Fischer considered 1.e4 best and almost always played 1.e4
Kasparov considered 1.e4 best and almost always played 1.e4
Karpov always preferred to start with 1.e4
I think this should be telling in a way.
Not only that, but 1.d4 is only the 3-rd best possible move: 1.c4 is also stronger than 1.d4, if white also places a pawn on e4.
And indeed, Fischer played from time to time 1.c4, but almost never 1.d4
Kasparov played from time to time 1.c4, but almost never 1.d4
Those players seem to kind of know their business, and also they are reputed great theoreticians, theory actually starts with Fischer and Kasparov, do not you think?
PS. We are talking here about the best move with perfect play, and not about human performance statistics.
I will tell you why 1.d4 performs well in terms of stats: because after 1.d4 there are far too many weak black replies, which leave white with advantage:
-1...d5 leaves white with an edge
-1...Nf6, followed by 2...e6, leading to the Nimzovich or the Queen's Indian, leave white with an edge
-mainline KID, with 1...Nf6, with optimal play, migth still leave white with some edge, though most lines here favour only black, etc.
So, we must make a distinction: 1.d4 might have good or even better performance in terms of stats, but that is only because on 1.d4 there are too many non-optimal replies, however, in terms of perfect play and seeking for the optimal move, 1.d4 comes in only third after 1.e4 and 1.c4