Is there a website where you can run or download Botwinniks chess program pioneer ? Or doesn't it exist anymore and has never been revived.
https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Pioneer
Pioneer
Moderators: hgm, Rebel, chrisw
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bob
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Re: Pioneer
Never existed...Henk wrote:Is there a website where you can run or download Botwinniks chess program pioneer ? Or doesn't it exist anymore and has never been revived.
https://chessprogramming.wikispaces.com/Pioneer
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Henk
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Re: Pioneer
Might have been that someone had completed his work.
By the way strange that engine never existed while working years on it.
By the way strange that engine never existed while working years on it.
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Henk
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Re: Pioneer
It should have been able to solve this test position: Botwinnik-Capablanca 1938 (AVRO)
[d] 8/p3q1kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/1nP3N1/1B4PP/6K1 w - -
[d] 8/p3q1kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/1nP3N1/1B4PP/6K1 w - -
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Henk
- Posts: 7216
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Re: Pioneer
Skipper can't find it.
Code: Select all
Depth Value Time(seconds) Nodes
2101 0.5327 107.83 39653712 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 a3d6 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d6e5 g7f7 d5d6 f6e4 h2h4 g5e6 e7d5
2001 0.6675 25.55 9660721 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 a3d6 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d6e5 g7f7 d5d6 f6e4 e5f4 g5e6
1901 0.5724 18.03 7160431 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 a3d6 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d6e5 g5f7 e5b8 g7f8 d5d6
1801 0.3557 19.40 7134477 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 g2g3 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d5d6 g5e4 a3b4 h7h6
1701 0.4559 7.91 3129732 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 g2g3 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d5d6 g7f8 a3c1
1601 0.2138 107.82 38097653 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 d4d5 f4d5 e7d5 f6d5 a3b4 d5b4
1501 1.6041 3.17 1236751 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8d7 e3d5 d2e4 d5f6 e4f6 d4d5 d7b5 b2c1 b5c5 c1e3
1401 1.6863 2.40 849397 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8d7 e3d5 d2e4 d5f6 e4f6 d4d5 d7b5 e5c7 f6d5
1301 1.4977 4.92 1702500 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8d7 e3d5 d2e4 d5f6 e4f6 d4d5 d7b5 e5c7
1201 1.6309 8.64 3178534 g3f1 e7b7 b2a3 b6b5 a3f8 g7f8 e5f6 f8g8 f1e3 b7a8 f6f7 g8h8
1101 1.4207 0.66 255423 g3f1 g7g8 g1h1 b3a5 b2a3 e7a3 e5f6 a3f8 f6f8 g8f8 f1e3
1001 1.4256 1.33 402972 g3f1 g7g8 g1h1 b3a5 b2a3 e7a3 e5f6 a3f8 f6f8 g8f8
901 1.2089 0.38 158451 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8e8 e3d5 d2e4 b2c1
801 1.1844 0.15 58064 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8e8 e3d5 d2e4
701 0.8717 0.09 33119 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e3g4 d2e4 g4f6
601 0.9966 0.04 17481 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 b2a1 b6b5
501 1.0270 0.02 9756 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 h7h6 e5f4
401 1.0034 0.05 18995 g3f1 e7d8 g1h1 b6b5
301 0.4330 0.01 1526 g1h1 b6b5 e5e1
201 0.6089 0.00 1705 g1h1 b6b5
101 0.6029 0.00 147 g1h1
1 0.8198 0.05 130 g1h1
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Maarten Claessens
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Re: Pioneer
Did you ever notice the weird time- and node-values Skipper reports ? It looks like time and node-count are reset more than once during search.Henk wrote:Skipper can't find it.
Code: Select all
Depth Value Time(seconds) Nodes 2101 0.5327 107.83 39653712 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 a3d6 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d6e5 g7f7 d5d6 f6e4 h2h4 g5e6 e7d5 2001 0.6675 25.55 9660721 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 a3d6 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d6e5 g7f7 d5d6 f6e4 e5f4 g5e6 1901 0.5724 18.03 7160431 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 a3d6 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d6e5 g5f7 e5b8 g7f8 d5d6 1801 0.3557 19.40 7134477 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 g2g3 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d5d6 g5e4 a3b4 h7h6 1701 0.4559 7.91 3129732 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 g2g3 f4e6 d4d5 e6g5 d5d6 g7f8 a3c1 1601 0.2138 107.82 38097653 g3f1 b3a5 f1e3 a5c6 e3d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 d4d5 f4d5 e7d5 f6d5 a3b4 d5b4 1501 1.6041 3.17 1236751 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8d7 e3d5 d2e4 d5f6 e4f6 d4d5 d7b5 b2c1 b5c5 c1e3 1401 1.6863 2.40 849397 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8d7 e3d5 d2e4 d5f6 e4f6 d4d5 d7b5 e5c7 f6d5 1301 1.4977 4.92 1702500 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8d7 e3d5 d2e4 d5f6 e4f6 d4d5 d7b5 e5c7 1201 1.6309 8.64 3178534 g3f1 e7b7 b2a3 b6b5 a3f8 g7f8 e5f6 f8g8 f1e3 b7a8 f6f7 g8h8 1101 1.4207 0.66 255423 g3f1 g7g8 g1h1 b3a5 b2a3 e7a3 e5f6 a3f8 f6f8 g8f8 f1e3 1001 1.4256 1.33 402972 g3f1 g7g8 g1h1 b3a5 b2a3 e7a3 e5f6 a3f8 f6f8 g8f8 901 1.2089 0.38 158451 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8e8 e3d5 d2e4 b2c1 801 1.1844 0.15 58064 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8e8 e3d5 d2e4 701 0.8717 0.09 33119 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e3g4 d2e4 g4f6 601 0.9966 0.04 17481 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 b2a1 b6b5 501 1.0270 0.02 9756 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 h7h6 e5f4 401 1.0034 0.05 18995 g3f1 e7d8 g1h1 b6b5 301 0.4330 0.01 1526 g1h1 b6b5 e5e1 201 0.6089 0.00 1705 g1h1 b6b5 101 0.6029 0.00 147 g1h1 1 0.8198 0.05 130 g1h1
BTW even a modarate engine can nowadays find the solution in this position:
Code: Select all
WaDuuttie> sb 8/p3q1kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/1nP3N1/1B4PP/6K1 w - - 0 1
WaDuuttie> sd 20
WaDuuttie> on
ply nodes score pv
1 131 -52 g1f2
2 250 -54 g1f2 g7g8
3 757 -78 g1f2 a7a5 f2g1
4 1510 -80 g1f2 a7a5 f2g1 g7g8
5 4934 26 g3e2 b3a5 e2f4 a5c6 f4d5
6 6886 26 g3e2 b3a5 e2f4 a5c6 f4d5 c6e5 d5e7
7 8132 14 g3e2?
7 10213 8 g3e2 b3a5 e2f4 a5c6 e5g5 e7d6 g1f2
8 19216 0 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
f7f6
9 26434 0 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
f7f6
10 41154 0 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
f7f6
11 57891 0 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
f7f6
12 95501 0 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
f7f6
13 152254 0 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
f7f6
14 272704 12 b2a3!
14 658493 36 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
h2h3 b3d2 f7f6 h8g8 f6g5 g8f8 g5d2 f8e7 d2g5 e7e6
g5e5 e6f7 e5d5 f7g7 d5e5 g7g8 e5e6 g8g7
15 883702 40 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
h2h3 b3d2 f7f6 h8g8 f6g5 g8f8 g5d2 f8e7 d2g5 e7e6
g5e5 e6f7 e5d5 f7g7 d5c4 a3c1 g1h2 a7a5
16 1061471 56 b2a3!
16 1377005 24 b2a3?
16 1471170 24 b2a3 e7a3 g3h5 g6h5 e5g5 g7h8 g5f6 h8g8 f6f7 g8h8
h2h3 b3d2 f7f6 h8g8 f6g5 g8f8 g5f4 f8g7 f4d2 g7f6
d2h6 f6e7 h6g7 e7e6 g7e5 e6f7 e5d5 f7e7 d5e5 e7d7
d4d5
17 1833462 36 b2a3!
17 2337324 136 b2a3!
17 5489020 436 b2a3!
17 10324744 552 b2a3 e7e8 e5c7 g7g8 a3e7 g8g7 e7d8 g7f8 d8f6 e8e6
f6g7 f8e8 c7b8 e8d7 b8a7 d7c6 g7e5 h7h6 g3e2 b3d2
a7a8 c6d7 e2f4 e6c6
18 10663048 538 b2a3 e7e8 e5c7 g7g8 a3e7 g8g7 e7d8 g7f8 d8f6 e8e6
f6g7 f8e8 c7b8 e8d7 b8a7 d7e8 a7a8 e8e7 a8b7 e7e8
b7b8 e8e7 b8f8 e7d7 g7e5 g6g5 f8b8 e6c6
19 11341059 544 b2a3 e7e8 e5c7 g7g8 a3e7 g8g7 e7d8 g7f8 d8f6 e8e6
f6g7 f8e8 c7b8 e8d7 b8a7 d7e8 a7a8 e8e7 a8b7 e7e8
b7b8 e8d7 g7e5 d7e7 b8c7 e7e8 c7h7 e6f7
20 13092924 550 b2a3 e7e8 e5c7 g7g8 a3e7 g8g7 e7d8 g7f8 d8f6 e8e6
f6g7 f8e8 c7b8 e8d7 b8a7 d7e8 a7a8 e8e7 a8b7 e7e8
b7b8 e8e7 g3f1 g6g5 g7e5 h7h6 f1e3 e7f7
Computer's move: b2a3 (8814 msecs)
Nothing is unstable (Lawrence Krauss)
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Henk
- Posts: 7216
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Re: Pioneer
Ok but Pioneer is from the seventies. At that time computers were a bit slower.
Even with LMR disabled Skipper cannot find it. So you need at least depth 14 or so.
Even with LMR disabled Skipper cannot find it. So you need at least depth 14 or so.
Code: Select all
Depth Value Time(seconds) Nodes
1201 0.3468 2301.56 130708625 g3e2 b3a5 e2f4 a5c6 e5g5 b6b5 h2h4 b5b4
1101 0.6045 89.64 23097581 g3e2 b3a5 e2f4 a5c6 f4d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3 b2a3 d3f4 d4d5
1001 0.6759 16.16 5930929 g3e2 b3a5 e2f4 a5c6 f4d5 c6e5 d5e7 e5d3
901 0.0228 59.56 19707659 g3e2 b3a5 e2f4 a5c6
801 1.1775 1.65 487737 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8e8 e3d5 d2e4
701 1.0709 0.90 376946 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8e8 b2c1
601 1.1839 0.26 100346 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e6e7 d8e8
501 0.8710 0.06 24087 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b3d2 e3g4
401 0.9794 0.08 34932 g3f1 e7d8 f1e3 b6b5
301 0.7690 0.03 8464 g3e2 e7d8 e2f4
201 0.6049 0.01 2054 g1h1 b6b5
101 0.6071 0.00 307 g1h1
1 0.8063 0.04 130 g1h1
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mclane
- Posts: 18748
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- Full name: Thorsten Czub
Re: Pioneer
As far as i remember, super constellation by Novag with David kittinger program solves Ba3 in 1984 !! on a 6502 with 4 MHz speed and 56 KB engine size.David Kittinger
David Kittinger and Scott McDonald in Computer Chess Digest Annual 1984 on Novag Constellation [26] :
The Novag Constellation programs represent a significant evolutionary step in the development of microcomputer chess programs. The program represents the first commercial implementation of the attack map / offset map move generating strategy proposed by former World Chess Champion Mikhail Botvinnik and subsequently refined by myself for faster move generation as pieces come off the board.
Kittinger began with the so called PSH algorithms in the predecessor Novag constellation expert.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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mclane
- Posts: 18748
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- Full name: Thorsten Czub
Re: Pioneer
Henk wrote:It should have been able to solve this test position: Botwinnik-Capablanca 1938 (AVRO)
[d] 8/p3q1kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/1nP3N1/1B4PP/6K1 w - -
Took out my superconstalltion and i
Can approve that it has the move after a few minutes computation in search depth 6.
Well done Dave kittinger !
I think this was also known around the days in 1984.
What seems like a fairy tale today may be reality tomorrow.
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
Here we have a fairy tale of the day after tomorrow....
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bob
- Posts: 20943
- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 pm
- Location: Birmingham, AL
Re: Pioneer
This has been simple for years.Henk wrote:It should have been able to solve this test position: Botwinnik-Capablanca 1938 (AVRO)
[d] 8/p3q1kp/1p2Pnp1/3pQ3/2pP4/1nP3N1/1B4PP/6K1 w - -
This on my macbook:
Code: Select all
5. g4 hxg4 6. h5 Ne4 7. Qxd5 Nd2 8. Nxg6
Kf6 9. Ne5 Nf3+ (s=3)
19 1.40/1:39 0.74 1. h4 h5 2. Ne2 Na5 3. Nf4 Nc6 4. Qg5 Qe8
5. g4 hxg4 6. h5 Ne4 7. Qxd5 Nd2 8. Nxg6
Kf6 9. Ne5 Nf3+ 10. Nxf3 gxf3 11. Qxf3+
Kxe6 (s=3)
19 2.85/1:39 3.79 1. Ba3 Qe8 2. Qc7+ Kg8 3. Be7 Kg7 4. Qxa7
Nd2 5. Bd8+ Kf8 6. Bxf6 Qxe6 7. Qg7+ Ke8
8. Qh8+ Kf7 9. Be5 h5 10. Ne2 Qg4 11. Qg7+
Ke8 12. Nf4 Qd1+ 13. Kf2 (s=3)
19-> 2.85/1:39 3.79 1. Ba3 Qe8 2. Qc7+ Kg8 3. Be7 Kg7 4. Qxa7
Nd2 5. Bd8+ Kf8 6. Bxf6 Qxe6 7. Qg7+ Ke8
8. Qh8+ Kf7 9. Be5 h5 10. Ne2 Qg4 11. Qg7+
Ke8 12. Nf4 Qd1+ 13. Kf2 (s=4)
20 3.26/1:39 4.24 1. Ba3 Qe8 2. Qc7+ Kg8 3. Be7 Kg7 4. Qxa7
Na5 5. Bd8+ Kf8 6. Qxb6 Nc6 7. Bxf6 Qxe6
8. Be5 Ke7 9. Qc7+ Qd7 10. Bf6+ Ke6
11. Qf4 Kf7 12. Be5+ Kg8 (s=4)
20-> 3.28/1:39 4.24 1. Ba3 Qe8 2. Qc7+ Kg8 3. Be7 Kg7 4. Qxa7
Na5 5. Bd8+ Kf8 6. Qxb6 Nc6 7. Bxf6 Qxe6
8. Be5 Ke7 9. Qc7+ Qd7 10. Bf6+ Ke6
11. Qf4 Kf7 12. Be5+ Kg8 (s=3)
21 3.56/1:39 4.10 1. Ba3 Qe8 2. Qc7+ Kg8 3. Be7 Kg7 4. Qxa7
Na5 5. Bd8+ Kf8 6. Qxb6 Nc6 7. Bxf6 Qxe6
8. Bg5 Qd7 9. Bf4 Kf7 10. Nf1 Kf6 11. Ne3
Qe6 (s=3)