What to play against 1. d4 ?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderators: hgm, Harvey Williamson, bob

Forum rules
This textbox is used to restore diagrams posted with the [d] tag before the upgrade.
Post Reply
Henk
Posts: 5797
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 8:31 am

What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by Henk » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:15 pm

More than thirty years ago I bought a book about Grunfend defense. But problem is they don't play Nc3 but Nf3. So best you can get is a Neo Grunfeld which I don't like very much for knight has to retreat to b6 ( instead of Nc3:) So what are the alternatives nowadays.

I thought about just playing simpel Queens Gambit declined. But I don't like the exchange variation.

Henk
Posts: 5797
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 8:31 am

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by Henk » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:43 pm

By the way Skipper always captures on c4 after d5 for it probably thinks it might win a pawn. Doubt if Queens Gambit Accepted is best.

cc2150dx
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:51 am
Location: Canada

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by cc2150dx » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:26 am

Grunfeld Defence?

1. d4 nf6 2. c4 g6 3. nc3 d5

[d]rnbqkb1r/ppp1pp1p/5np1/3p4/2PP4/2N5/PP2PPPP/R1BQKBNR w
Komodo tester

clumma
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:05 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by clumma » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:46 am

According to Cerebellum the best for black against Nc3 is the Nimzo. Against Nf3 it tells us to play d5 and transpose to a semi-Slav. If white plays cxd5 with his knight on f3 instead of c3, he gets an inferior version of the exchange variation that's dead equal. The Cerebellum demo doesn't tell us why it's inferior, but Stockfish agrees it's equal if we follow up with ...c6, ...Bf5, and ...Nbd7.

-Carl

Dann Corbit
Posts: 9978
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
Contact:

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by Dann Corbit » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:51 am

We have the following responses to 1.d4 according to popularity:
Nf6 {1004729} d5 {434599} e6 {116089} f5 {63006} d6 {40940} g6 {32622} c5 {15043} c6 {6638} Nc6 {3907} b6 {2255} e5 {1558} b5 {1162} a6 {822} h6 {540} Na6 {446} a5 {334} h5 {316} g5 {233} f6 {171} Nh6 {117}

My analysis says this is best:
1... e6

rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/3P4/8/PPP1PPPP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - acd 48; acs 226889; bm e6; c3 "e6"; cce -42; ce -12; pm Nf6 {1004729} d5 {434599} e6 {116089} f5 {63006} d6 {40940} g6 {32622} c5 {15043} c6 {6638} Nc6 {3907} b6 {2255} e5 {1558} b5 {1162} a6 {822} h6 {540} Na6 {446} a5 {334} h5 {316} g5 {233} f6 {171} Nh6 {117}; pv e6 c4 Nf6 Nf3 b6 g3 Be7 Bg2 Bb7 O-O O-O Nc3 Ne4 Qd3 Nxc3 Qxc3 c5 Rd1 Na6 b3 Bf6 Bb2 Rc8 Rac1 d5 Qe3 Nb4 Ne5 cxd4 Bxd4 Nxa2 Ra1 Nb4 Rxa7 Nc2 Qd2 Nxd4 Qxd4 dxc4 Bxb7 Bxe5 Qxd8; white_wins 597411; black_wins 453117; draws 491802; Opening St. George Defense: St. Georgs Gambit. ; CaxtonID: 1623 ECO: A40;
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.

clumma
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:05 pm
Location: Berkeley, CA

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by clumma » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:03 am

...e6 allows transposition to the French where white is slightly better than in any 1. d4 line (according to Cerebellum).

S.Taylor
Posts: 8310
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:25 am
Location: Jerusalem Israel

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by S.Taylor » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:05 am

Henk wrote:More than thirty years ago I bought a book about Grunfend defense. But problem is they don't play Nc3 but Nf3. So best you can get is a Neo Grunfeld which I don't like very much for knight has to retreat to b6 ( instead of Nc3:) So what are the alternatives nowadays.

I thought about just playing simpel Queens Gambit declined. But I don't like the exchange variation.
That used to annoy ME a lot, too.
I loved trying for the Gruenfeld which Fisher played against Spassky. But when my opponent played Nf3, I was totally repressed. (as a child, i was very mystified and obsessed by chess moves played by big GM's and WC's. But later I realized that chess is mainly hard work)

Henk
Posts: 5797
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 8:31 am

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by Henk » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:38 am

[d] rnbqk2r/ppppppbp/5np1/8/2PP4/5N2/PP2PPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 2 4

In this position if white does not play Nc3 you can not play Grunfeld.

User avatar
Dr.Wael Deeb
Posts: 9635
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Amman,Jordan

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by Dr.Wael Deeb » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:15 am

I play the Old Indian Defense .....

A great opening against the white with a lot of variations to navigate through....
Dr.D
_No one can hit as hard as life.But it ain’t about how hard you can hit.It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.How much you can take and keep moving forward….

Henk
Posts: 5797
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 8:31 am

Re: What to play against 1. d4 ?

Post by Henk » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:45 am

[d] rnbqkb1r/pppppp1p/5np1/8/2PP4/5P2/PP2P1PP/RNBQKBNR b KQkq - 0 3

Grunfeld ? Forget it.

Post Reply