Time to revise modern theory

[Henk]

Skipper has a computer ELO of 1116 and I have trouble with beating it in blitz games. Perhaps Stockfish has 2350

[whereagles]

I find it hard to believe that all the above lines are losing, but it could be.

[peter]

Remember what I will say: if current top chess engines are 3300 or so, chess will be solved not before this number reaches 7000.

From your posts and claims it looks like you are already somewhere between 6500 and 7000.

[IanO]

1. g4 seems to be the only losing move for white.
1.f3 holds after white proceeds with e3 and d4, while, I find this extremely funny, 1.Nh3 (1.Na3 is resolved similarly) does not lose, but there is a single drawing move after 1...d5 (1...e5 is weaker, white should hold after f3 and Nf2)

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3p4/8/7N/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq d6 0 2

guess what this move is?

2.g3 loses after black plays e5, h5-h4, while on any other second white move black captures on h3, winning, though engines do not think so)

rigth 2.Ng1!!! (Bulgarian chess players call this system 'Come wolf, eat me.')

Liked it?

I wonder when SF will find Ng1 above, in a century or so?

That is an interesting result, if true. It means that it takes more than two moves to overcome the draw barrier for white (at least if starting with 1.d4).

[beram]

Maybe the line

Code: Select all

7...Nh5 8.g3 f5 9.ef5 gf5 10.Bg5, followed by Qd2 and castling long

is more promising for black. Perhaps black should wait with castling short.
After white castling long black can sacrifice his b pawn with a6 b5 or play c6 trying to open c file.

all reasonable lines, but white simply has too big an advantage.

I agree on your opinion Lyudmill and more over also Noomen book gives 69,2% after 8 g4

I have this position in my testbook and Stockfish has an incredible score with that against Komodo
[d] rnbq1rk1/ppp2pbp/3p1np1/3Pp3/2P1P3/2N2N1P/PP3PP1/R1BQKB1R b KQ - 0 7

When i played otb it was my favorite setup against the KID

[Guenther]

1. g4 seems to be the only losing move for white.
1.f3 holds after white proceeds with e3 and d4, while, I find this extremely funny, 1.Nh3 (1.Na3 is resolved similarly) does not lose, but there is a single drawing move after 1...d5 (1...e5 is weaker, white should hold after f3 and Nf2)

[d]rnbqkbnr/ppp1pppp/8/3p4/8/7N/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq d6 0 2[/d]

guess what this move is?

2.g3 loses after black plays e5, h5-h4, while on any other second white move black captures on h3, winning, though engines do not think so)

rigth 2.Ng1!!! :) :) (Bulgarian chess players call this system 'Come wolf, eat me.')

Liked it?

I wonder when SF will find Ng1 above, in a century or so?

Now you have gone completely astray in your astrological universe?
Congrats for the 30 men tablebases implant from Uranus.
May be it's already too late for help.

[Dann Corbit]

In Sicilian Najdorf Rauzer after the moves: 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4
[d]rnbqkb1r/1p3ppp/p2ppn2/6B1/3NPP2/2N5/PPP3PP/R2QKB1R b KQkq f3 0 7[/d]
7... b5 (Polugaevsky variant) and 7... Nc6 are losing.
The best black move is 7...Qb6 and if 8. Qd2 (Poisoned Pawn) it is a draw in all variants examined.

I agree with your analysis on this one. This is what I have:
[d]rnbqkb1r/1p3ppp/p2ppn2/6B1/3NPP2/2N5/PPP3PP/R2QKB1R b KQkq - acd 42; acs 2713; bm Qb6; c3 "Qb6"; cce 3; ce 0; id "es-dc-neutral.0595"; pm Qb6 {11859} Be7 {4243} Nbd7 {3465} Qc7 {3145} b5 {668} h6 {581} Nc6 {462} Bd7 {161} Qa5 {7} e5 {4} Ke7 {2}; pv Qb6 Qd2 Qxb2 Rb1 Qa3 f5 Nc6 fxe6 fxe6 Nxc6 bxc6 Be2 Be7 O-O O-O Rb3 Qc5+ Be3 Qe5 Bd4 Qa5 Bb6 Qe5 Bd4; white_wins 8774; black_wins 8923; draws 4906; Opening Sicilian Defense: Najdorf Variation. Polugayevsky Variation; 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 6.Bg5 e6 7.f4 b5; CaxtonID: 2152 ECO: B96;

Very likely a draw.

[jdart]

Due to the nature of the game changes in eval at the leaves of the search tree can change the eval much farther up. And that is why "theory" is always changing.

For example, I have recently been looking at this game:

[pgn]
[Event "EU/TC9/final"]
[Site "ICCF"]
[Date "2014.06.10"]
[Round "?.3"]
[White "Borstnik, Ales"]
[Black "Kupsys, Alfonsas"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C11"]
[WhiteElo "2579"]
[BlackElo "2543"]
[PlyCount "71"]
[EventDate "2014.??.??"]
[WhiteTeam "Slovenia"]
[BlackTeam "Lithuania"]
[WhiteTeamCountry "SLO"]
[BlackTeamCountry "LTU"]

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. f4 c5 6. Nf3 Nc6 7. Be3 cxd4 8. Nxd4
Qb6 9. Qd2 Qxb2 10. Rb1 Qa3 11. Bb5 Nxd4 12. Bxd4 a6 13. Bxd7+ Bxd7 14. Rb3 Qe7
15. Rxb7 Rc8 16. O-O Qa3 17. Rfb1 Bc5 18. Ne2 h6 19. f5 exf5 20. h3 Bc6 21.
R7b3 Bxd4+ 22. Nxd4 Qc5 23. Rg3 g5 24. e6 fxe6 25. Rc3 Qa7 26. Qe3 Bd7 27. Rcb3
Qc5 28. Rb7 Rh7 29. Qe5 Kf8 30. R1b6 Kg8 31. Rxe6 Qxd4+ 32. Qxd4 Bxe6 33. Qf6
Bf7 34. Qxa6 Re8 35. a4 g4 36. Qd3 1-0
[/pgn]

Here I think 18. .. h6 is a novelty and it looks like a good one, but after 20. h3! Black is busted. However, actually Black does not appear to have any really adequate moves at move 18 (.. Bb4+ for example gives him a difficult position too), so in fact he should probably deviate earlier. It appears recent games favor 15. .. Qd8, as in Caruana-Robson, US chmp 2016. However, this whole line is very complex. I am quite sure you can't search forward far earlier in the game and get an accurate eval for it.

--Jon

[Dann Corbit]

I have resolved it to a draw at worst. It takes 50+ plies, and forward and backward analysis with several months of CPU time.

[Jouni]

Lyudmil should play Carlsen instead of Karjakin! He can beat Carlsen easily with perfect opening knowledge.