DEEP SYNAPZE

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MikeB
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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by MikeB » Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:34 am

hgm wrote:...I don't think Brendon's reputation was damaged in any way. On the contrary, he was shown to have spoken truthfully. ..
agree 100%, +1 on that point, they were like rubber bullets...

BrendanJNorman
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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by BrendanJNorman » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:26 am

hgm wrote:'It is in fact questionable whether accusations that are obviously completely unfounded, because the person voicing them cannot possibly have any knowledge about it, could ever damage someone's reputation.
That's B.S and any person of intelligence knows it.

If you feel strongly that this is the truth, I suppose you'd have no objection if I sent a "warning" out to my 10000+ chessplayers mailing list and/or other chess authorities, saying that "Harm Geert Muller a child molester!"?

This is completely unfounded and I could not possibly have information about it.

So it's "questionable" whether this would damage your reputation, right?

I think not.

What you're doing is as transparent as could be.

You're using excuses and rationalization to excuse the behavior of board members (some of whom are friends/compatriots of yours) as well as your refusal as a moderator, to take action in the face of such behavior.

You'd take actions if it were somebody else doing the abusing, but when it comes to your circle of friends, you lack impartiality.

This is the reality of the matter.

"The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is" - Churchhill

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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by BrendanJNorman » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:34 am

hgm wrote:Personally I consider it more annoying that users don't list their location than whether they use their real name.
How could knowing where someone is be more valuable than knowing who someone is?

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hgm
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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by hgm » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:22 am

BrendanJNorman wrote:If you feel strongly that this is the truth, I suppose you'd have no objection if I sent a "warning" out to my 10000+ chessplayers mailing list and/or other chess authorities, saying that "Harm Geert Muller a child molester!"?

This is completely unfounded and I could not possibly have information about it.

So it's "questionable" whether this would damage your reputation, right?

I think not.
Well, I would not worry about it. Of course I would have you sent to jail, but that would mostly be just for fun. I wouldn't attach more significance to it than winning a game of Chess.

De difference that buys you your ticket to jail would of course be that it is a direct accusation, and a lie. If you would merely have said "I would not be surprised if ..." you would have stayed on the safe side of the law.
You're using excuses and rationalization to excuse the behavior of board members (some of whom are friends/compatriots of yours) as well as your refusal as a moderator, to take action in the face of such behavior.

You'd take actions if it were somebody else doing the abusing, but when it comes to your circle of friends, you lack impartiality.

This is the reality of the matter.
This is something you cannot possibly know, and it is total bullshit. The suggestion that Leto would be a friend of mine should in fact be considered an insult in itself. The posting I did moderate was in fact of someone I do consider a friend.
BrendanJNorman wrote:How could knowing where someone is be more valuable than knowing who someone is?
Knowing where he lives tells me something about the environment that might have helped in shaping his thoughts. Knowing his real name tells me nothing. It will be just a name of a person I do not know otherwise, and any name would be as good as any other.

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Leto
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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by Leto » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:51 am

Brendan I already apologized to you in the thread where our discussion started.

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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by BrendanJNorman » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:28 pm

hgm wrote:Well, I would not worry about it. Of course I would have you sent to jail, but that would mostly be just for fun. I wouldn't attach more significance to it than winning a game of Chess.

De difference that buys you your ticket to jail would of course be that it is a direct accusation, and a lie. If you would merely have said "I would not be surprised if ..." you would have stayed on the safe side of the law.

This is something you cannot possibly know, and it is total bullshit. The suggestion that Leto would be a friend of mine should in fact be considered an insult in itself. The posting I did moderate was in fact of someone I do consider a friend.

Knowing where he lives tells me something about the environment that might have helped in shaping his thoughts. Knowing his real name tells me nothing. It will be just a name of a person I do not know otherwise, and any name would be as good as any other.
1. No you wouldn't. If the U.S government can't even arrest criminals in China they know the identities of and have warrants out for, how the hell are you going to have a random guy who said some mean words on the internet "thrown" in jail, who is also in China? Good luck with that. It'd take years to even begin the process and nothing worth imprisonment would stick.

2. So hypothetically, If I said "blah blah blah, and I wouldn't be surprised if Harm Geert Muller a child molester!", you'd have no problem with it? Very strange if you truly judge one as offensive and the other as acceptable.

3. Did I "suggest" that Leto was your friend or imply it? I thought thinly veiled implications were acceptable to you (as long as they don't say something directly)? Regardless, I was referring to Stan Arts (who rather than posting something positive or sharing an opinion, simply entered the thread to mock me and throw stones at my assertions) who I assume is a friend of yours and in fact, can be seen with you here:

Image

4. I live in China and travel quite a bit. If I had an anonymous account and only stated my location, what would this tell you about "the environment that at might have helped in shaping my thoughts" (my thoughts were "shaped" by the Australian education system, plus about 200 books on business, geo-politics, history, psychology, philosophy, language etc, which I've read in the last few years)? I think giving a real name, already implies cultural background (i.e Zhang Yi is probably Chinese, Joe Smith is a westerner, Sergey Korlov probably Russian etc),which is more important of course than "location" and giving a real name also encourages accountability.

You're wrong, man.

At least admit it to yourself and take a chance to improve.

This topic is done.

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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by BrendanJNorman » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:29 pm

Leto wrote:Brendan I already apologized to you in the thread where our discussion started.
Yes, and I appreciate it.

Thank you.

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hgm
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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by hgm » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:57 pm

BrendanJNorman wrote:1. No you wouldn't. If the U.S government can't even arrest criminals in China they know the identities of and have warrants out for, how the hell are you going to have a random guy who said some mean words on the internet "thrown" in jail, who is also in China? Good luck with that. It'd take years to even begin the process and nothing worth imprisonment would stick.
Well,if you plan to hide in China all your live, good luck. You cannot win them all. I would be rather instructive for you to look up the exchange between Leonimial and Ed Trice on Rybka forum, however.
2. So hypothetically, If I said "blah blah blah, and I wouldn't be surprised if Harm Geert Muller a child molester!", you'd have no problem with it? Very strange if you truly judge one as offensive and the other as acceptable.
Not at all. Because that makes it completely clear to any reader that it is just something fabricated by your own dirty mind. OTOH, making definitive statements creates the impression you have access to privileged information others do not have, and some people might fall for that.
3. Did I "suggest" that Leto was your friend or imply it? I thought thinly veiled implications were acceptable to you (as long as they don't say something directly)?
Words fail to express how much of a relief that is... You should have been more clear about that, as the discussion was about Leto's post, and I cannot smell that you change subject.
Regardless, I was referring to Stan Arts (who rather than posting something positive or sharing an opinion, simply entered the thread to mock me and throw stones at my assertions) who I assume is a friend of yours and in fact, can be seen with you here:

Image
Well, so he was an opponent in the Leiden tournament some 10 years ago. What of it? Anyone could have reported Stan's postings. No one did. That should tell you something.

It seems that you consider it an insult if someone does not receive your very debatable assertions with acclaim.
4. I live in China and travel quite a bit. If I had an anonymous account and only stated my location, what would this tell you about "the environment that at might have helped in shaping my thoughts" (my thoughts were "shaped" by the Australian education system, plus about 200 books on business, geo-politics, history, psychology, philosophy, language etc, which I've read in the last few years)? I think giving a real name, already implies cultural background (i.e Zhang Yi is probably Chinese, Joe Smith is a westerner, Sergey Korlov probably Russian etc),which is more important of course than "location" and giving a real name also encourages accountability.
Many people with German / French / Russian or Asian names are in fact U.S. citizens. No method can be 100% accurate, but many more people stay close to their origin than there emigrate to China. Would you have known I was Dutch, if it was not in my profile?

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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by BrendanJNorman » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:43 pm

hgm wrote:Well,if you plan to hide in China all your live, good luck. You cannot win them all. I would be rather instructive for you to look up the exchange between Leonimial and Ed Trice on Rybka forum, however.
Hide from what? And what country do you think you could bring the full force of the law against somebody who said mean words on the internet, who needs to be proven to have used their own computer to do so (not fallen victim to hackers or whatever)?. I know the law and you'd be spending tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers, for an unclear outcome at best.

Having me "thrown in jail" is pure delusion.
hgm wrote:Not at all. Because that makes it completely clear to any reader that it is just something fabricated by your own dirty mind. OTOH, making definitive statements creates the impression you have access to privileged information others do not have, and some people might fall for that.
Are you aware of how propaganda is formed and perceptions can be manufactured?

Here's a reading list:

https://www.amazon.com/Propaganda-Edwar ... 0970312598

https://www.amazon.com/Crystallizing-Pu ... bc?ie=UTF8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycholog ... nipulation

Even "implications" of a certain opinion or worldview can be painted in a very convincing way if the writer is gifted enough.

This is an exact science.
hgm wrote:Anyone could have reported Stan's postings. No one did. That should tell you something.
Yes, it did. As I have mentioned.

hgm wrote:Many people with German / French / Russian or Asian names are in fact U.S. citizens. No method can be 100% accurate, but many more people stay close to their origin than there emigrate to China. Would you have known I was Dutch, if it was not in my profile?
Finally we agree on something, no method is 100% accurate.

That's why Quora.com (a huge site where people debate over much more controversial topics than here) has a REAL NAME policy (not a location policy) and, strict, impartial moderation staff.

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hgm
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Re: Deep Synapse RZ6

Post by hgm » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:10 pm

BrendanJNorman wrote:Hide from what? And what country do you think you could bring the full force of the law against somebody who said mean words on the internet, who needs to be proven to have used their own computer to do so (not fallen victim to hackers or whatever)?. I know the law and you'd be spending tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers, for an unclear outcome at best.

Having me "thrown in jail" is pure delusion.
That happens to be just what Leonimial thought, when he was foulmouthing Ed. And look what happened to him...

Unlike what you are advocating, many coutries take laws on libel (and copyright infringement,for that matter) very seriously.
Are you aware of how propaganda is formed and perceptions can be manufactured?

Here's a reading list:

https://www.amazon.com/Propaganda-Edwar ... 0970312598

https://www.amazon.com/Crystallizing-Pu ... bc?ie=UTF8

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycholog ... nipulation

Even "implications" of a certain opinion or worldview can be painted in a very convincing way if the writer is gifted enough.

This is an exact science.
Well, thanks, but no thanks. I am not going to waste my time on that. It seems you want to deny me the right to not worry about obviously fabricated accusations against me. Sadly for you, I can set my own priorities in that respect, though.
Yes, it did. As I have mentioned.
Paranoia, then?
That's why Quora.com (a huge site where people debate over much more controversial topics than here) has a REAL NAME policy (not a location policy) and, strict, impartial moderation staff.
Apparently totally pointless in your opinion, as people could not be sued for the crimes they commit there ayway. As I explained, I would be happier with a real-location policy. Again you seem to think you have the authority to decide what I should like and dislike.

Her we also have a real-name policy, and a moderation staff elected by the members. If you don't like our policy, then don't vote for us. Or better yet, run for moderator yourself.

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