Possible Test Position?

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Michael Neish
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:22 am

Possible Test Position?

Post by Michael Neish »

I haven't posted here for ages. Anyway, Topalov is currently giving a master class live at the Gibraltar Masters.

http://www.gibraltarchesscongress.com/l ... rclass.htm

Literally a few minutes ago, he discussed a position that (I think) arose in a game that he played blindfold.

The winning move that he played is (apparently) f5 and he commented that even today's strong engines take a bit of time to find it.

My apologies if this position has been discussed here before. I just thought it would be interesting to post it.

[D]r1b3k1/ppppn1pp/4n1q1/8/5P2/2N1B3/PPP3QP/3R1RK1 w - - 1 9
yanquis1972
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by yanquis1972 »

very nice position, can't post analysis right now but it seems very difficult for the latest SF at very least. hopefully will be included in future test suites if it isnt already.
Michael Neish
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by Michael Neish »

yanquis1972 wrote:very nice position, can't post analysis right now but it seems very difficult for the latest SF at very least. hopefully will be included in future test suites if it isnt already.
Happy to help! I just hope I didn't mishear what he said. I think he said that even today's engines can take half an hour to find it, whereas many grandmasters are capable of finding it much faster (and he found it in a blindfold game). His not-very-serious conclusion was "There's still hope." For the human race, that is.
Last edited by Michael Neish on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yanquis1972
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by yanquis1972 »

no, you mustve heard perfectly well, & it wouldnt surprise me if thats a half-hour on whatever hardware he's using. very rare to find a tactical shot that stumps todays engines for more than few seconds, much less minutes.

the simpler test position for contemporary engines is [d]r1b3k1/pppp2pp/4n1q1/5n2/8/2N1B3/PPP3QP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 10

here still SF takes some time to find Rxf5!!
Vinvin
Posts: 5228
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by Vinvin »

yanquis1972 wrote:no, you mustve heard perfectly well, & it wouldnt surprise me if thats a half-hour on whatever hardware he's using. very rare to find a tactical shot that stumps todays engines for more than few seconds, much less minutes.

the simpler test position for contemporary engines is [d]r1b3k1/pppp2pp/4n1q1/5n2/8/2N1B3/PPP3QP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 10

here still SF takes some time to find Rxf5!!
Results on my i7@6*4GHz.

First try : 1min7sec
Second try : 4min25sec
Third try : 3min19sec

Code: Select all

Stockfish_170111_x64_modern_fast:
...
 32/66	01:03	 660 488k	10 453k	+0,36	10.Nd5 Qxg2+ 11.Kxg2 g6 12.Bd2 b6 13.Kg1 Ba6 14.Rf2 Kf7 15.Ne3 Rg8 16.h4 Ke8 17.Nd5 Kd8 18.Bg5+ Nxg5 19.hxg5 Rh8 20.Rh2 d6 21.Kf2 h5 22.gxh6 Nxh6 23.Nf6 Bc4 24.Re1 Rf8 25.Rxh6 Rxf6+ 26.Kg3 Bd5 27.b3 Rf3+ 28.Kg4 Rf2 29.c4 Bb7 30.Rh8+ Kd7 31.Rh7+ Kd8 32.Ree7
 33/66+	01:07	 700 505k	10 452k	+0,43	10.Rxf5
 33/66+	01:08	 710 970k	10 449k	+0,50	10.Rxf5
 33/66+	01:11	 751 083k	10 458k	+0,77	10.Rxf5
 33/66	01:20	 830 388k	10 337k	+0,97	10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qf8 12.Rf1 Qd8 13.Rf6 d6 14.Bh6 Kh8 15.Rxe6 gxh6 16.Re7 Qg8 17.Qxg8+ Kxg8 18.Nxc7 Rb8 19.Re8+ Kf7 20.Rh8 Kg7 21.Rd8 Kf7 22.Nb5 Ke7 23.Rh8 a6 24.Nd4 Kf6 25.Kf2 h5 26.Ke3 Kg5 27.Rg8+ Kf6 28.Rd8 Ke5 29.Rh8 Kd5 30.Nf5 Kc6 31.Kf4 Bxf5 32.Rxb8 Kc7 33.Rg8 Bxc2 34.Rg7+ Kc6 35.Re7
 34/66+	01:21	 845 392k	10 335k	+1,04	10.Rxf5
 34/66+	01:22	 848 983k	10 337k	+1,12	10.Rxf5
 34/66+	01:23	 868 068k	10 361k	+1,22	10.Rxf5
 34/66	01:28	 923 740k	10 391k	+1,35	10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qf8 12.Rf1 Qd8 13.Rf6 d6 14.Bh6 Kh8 15.Rxe6 gxh6 16.Re7 Qg8 17.Qxg8+ Kxg8 18.Nxc7 Rb8 19.Re8+ Kf7 20.a4 h5 21.Rh8 Kg7 22.Rd8 Kf7 23.Nb5 Ke7 24.Rh8 a6 25.Rxh7+ Ke6 26.Nc7+ Ke5 27.Rh8 d5 28.Rxh5+ Kd6 29.Nxd5 Bd7 30.Nb6 Be6 31.Rh6 Re8 32.a5 Kc5 33.Kf2 Kb5 34.Rh5+ Kc6

Code: Select all

Stockfish_170111_x64_modern_fast:
...
 37/60	03:44	 2 406 796k	10 698k	+0,25	10.Nd5 Qxg2+ 11.Kxg2 g6 12.Bd2 b6 13.Kg1 Ba6 14.Rf2 Kf7 15.Ne3 Rg8 16.h4 Ke8 17.Nd5 Kd8 18.Bg5+ Nxg5 19.hxg5 Rh8 20.Rh2 d6 21.Kf2 Bb7 22.Nf6 h5 23.gxh6 Nxh6 24.Rg1 Rf8 25.Rxh6 Rxf6+ 26.Ke3 Re6+ 27.Kd4 Be4 28.Rh8+ Kd7 29.Rh7+ Kd8 30.Re1 d5 31.c4 c5+ 32.Kc3 d4+ 33.Kd2 a5 34.a4 Kc8 35.Rg7
 38/60+	04:25	 2 820 260k	10 618k	+0,32	10.Rxf5
 38/60+	04:35	 2 923 887k	10 607k	+0,39	10.Rxf5
 38/60+	04:55	 3 131 048k	10 601k	+1,15	10.Rxf5

Code: Select all

Stockfish_170111_x64_modern_fast:
...
 37/59-	02:54	 1 854 217k	10 628k	+0,30	10.Nd5 Qxg2+
 37/59+	03:19	 2 121 762k	10 639k	+0,37	10.Rxf5
 37/59+	04:02	 2 603 823k	10 739k	+1,39	10.Rxf5
 37/73	05:36	 3 613 836k	10 729k	+1,60	10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qf8 12.Rf1 Qd8 13.Qf2 b6 14.Qf7+ Kh8 15.Nxc7 h6 16.Nxa8 Ba6 17.Re1 Bb7 18.Qg6 Bxa8 19.Bd4 Qh4 20.Bc3 Qg5+ 21.Qxg5 hxg5 22.Kf2 Kh7 23.a4 Bc6 24.a5 Kg6 25.Ke3 Nf4 26.Ra1 Ng2+ 27.Kd3 Bb5+ 28.Kd2 Nh4 29.axb6 axb6 30.h3 Ng2 31.Bd4 Nf4 32.Bxb6 Bc6 33.Ra6 Nxh3 34.Bd4 g4
 38/73+	05:44	 3 692 003k	10 724k	+1,68	10.Rxf5
 38/73+	05:56	 3 826 037k	10 720k	+1,75	10.Rxf5
 38/73-	06:01	 3 873 747k	10 722k	+1,68	10.Rxf5 Qxf5
 38/73+	06:06	 3 928 348k	10 723k	+1,77	10.Rxf5
 38/73	06:22	 4 106 426k	10 728k	+1,82	10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qf8 12.Rf1 Qd8 13.Qf2 b6 14.Qf7+ Kh8 15.Nxc7 h6 16.Nxa8 Bb7 17.Qh5 Bxa8 18.Bxh6 Kg8 19.Be3 Qe7 20.c3 Be4 21.Qg4 Bc6 22.Qg3 Qe8 23.Rf5 Be4 24.Re5 Bc6 25.Bd4 Qf8 26.Qg6 Qe7 27.b3 Bb7 28.Re3 Bc6 29.Qg3 Qf8 30.Qg4 Bd5 31.Re5 Bb7 32.Re1 Bd5 33.Be3 Bf3 34.Qg3 Bc6 35.Rf1
 39/73	07:31	 4 836 841k	10 718k	+1,83	10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qf8 12.Rf1 Qd8 13.Qf2 b6 14.Qf7+ Kh8 15.Nxc7 h6 16.Nxa8 Bb7 17.Qh5 Bxa8 18.Bxh6 Kg8 19.Be3 Qe7 20.c3 Be4 21.Qg4 Nf8 22.Qg3 Qe8 23.b3 d5 24.Rf4 Qh5 25.Qg4 Qe8 26.Bd4 Ne6 27.Be5 Qe7 28.Rf2 Bd3 29.h4 Nc5 30.Bd4 Ne6 31.Be3 Bb1 32.Qg3 Qe8 33.Qe5 Qg6+ 34.Rg2 Qe4 35.Qxe4 dxe4 36.Kh2 Kf7
Michael Neish
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:22 am

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by Michael Neish »

Vincent, remember that Rxf5 is for White's next move after f5 on the previous move. How long does Stockfish take to find f5?

Michael.
acase
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:14 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA
Full name: Andrew R Case

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by acase »

Hello Michael,


Here is Houdini 5.01 pro (IN TACTICAL MODE) on 20 cores with a 16GB hash :





New game
r1b3k1/ppppn1pp/4n1q1/8/5P2/2N1B3/PPP3QP/3R1RK1 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Houdini 5.01 Pro x64-pext:


9.Ne4 Nf5 10.Qxg6 hxg6 11.Rd3 b6 12.Re1 d6 13.Ng5 Nxg5 14.fxg5 Ba6 15.Ra3 Bb5 16.Rb3 Bd7 17.Bf2 Kf7 18.Bg3 Be6 19.Rc3 Rc8 20.Ra3 Ra8 21.Ra4 a5 22.Bf2 Bd7 23.Rf4 Rh8 24.h4 c5 25.c4 Bc6 26.Re2
+/- (0.80) Depth: 29/58 00:02:57 6861MN, tb=1020
9.Ne4 Nf5
+/- (0.73 --) Depth: 30/58 00:03:25 7980MN, tb=1273
9.Ne4 Nf5
+/- (0.73 --) Depth: 30/58 00:04:06 9609MN, tb=1341
9.f5
+/- (0.94 ++) Depth: 30/58 00:04:06 9612MN, tb=1341

9.f5
+/- (1.05 ++) Depth: 30/58 00:04:06 9618MN, tb=1341
9.f5
+/- (1.19 ++) Depth: 30/62 00:04:11 9809MN, tb=1350
9.f5
+/- (1.37 ++) Depth: 30/74 00:04:21 10228MN, tb=1424
9.f5
+- (1.61 ++) Depth: 30/74 00:05:08 12136MN, tb=1770
9.f5 Nxf5 10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qe5 12.Rf1 d6 13.c3 Bd7 14.Rf5 Nf4 15.Rxf4 Rf8 16.h3 Rxf4 17.Bxf4 Qe6 18.Nxc7 Qxh3 19.Qxh3 Bxh3 20.Ne8 d5 21.Bb8 a6 22.Be5 g5 23.Bd4 Kf7 24.Nd6+ Kg6 25.Nxb7 h5 26.Nc5 Bc8 27.Kh2 h4 28.b4 Kf5
+/- (1.47) Depth: 30/78 00:06:26 15257MN, tb=2376
9.f5 Nxf5 10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qe5 12.Rf1 d6 13.c3 Bd7 14.Rf5 Nf4 15.Rxf4 Rf8 16.h3 Rxf4 17.Bxf4 Qe6 18.Nxc7 Qxh3 19.Qxh3 Bxh3 20.Ne8 d5 21.Bb8 a6 22.Be5 g5 23.Bd4 Kf7 24.Nd6+ Kg6 25.Nxb7 h5 26.Nc5 Bc8 27.Kh2 h4 28.b4 Kf5
+/- (1.47) Depth: 30/78 00:06:26 15259MN, tb=2383
9.f5
+/- (1.53 ++) Depth: 30/78 00:07:03 16790MN, tb=2580
9.f5
+/- (1.59 ++) Depth: 30/78 00:07:24 17645MN, tb=2791
9.f5 Nxf5
+/- (1.53 --) Depth: 30/78 00:07:40 18286MN, tb=2871
9.f5
+- (1.61 ++) Depth: 30/78 00:07:59 19062MN, tb=3325
9.f5 Nxf5 10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qe5 12.Rf1 d6 13.c3 Bd7 14.Rf5 Nf4 15.Rxf4 Rf8 16.Rxf8+ Kxf8 17.Bf4 Qf5 18.Qf2 Ke8 19.Qe3+ Kf7 20.c4 Qg6+ 21.Kf2 Qc2+ 22.Qe2 Qxe2+ 23.Kxe2 Be6 24.Kd3 c6 25.Nc3 Ke7 26.b3 Bf5+ 27.Ke3 Ke6 28.Ne4 Bxe4 29.Kxe4 a6 30.h4 b5 31.cxb5 cxb5 32.Be3
+- (1.65) Depth: 30/78 00:08:28 20249MN, tb=3584
9.f5 Nxf5 10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qe5 12.Rf1 d6 13.c3 Bd7 14.Rf5 Nf4 15.Rxf4 Rf8 16.Rxf8+ Kxf8 17.Bf4 Qf5 18.Qf2 Ke8 19.Qe3+ Kf7 20.c4 Qg6+ 21.Kf2 Qc2+ 22.Qe2 Qxe2+ 23.Kxe2 Be6 24.Kd3 c6 25.Nc3 Ke7 26.b3 Bf5+ 27.Ke3 Ke6 28.Ne4 Bxe4 29.Kxe4 a6 30.h4 b5 31.cxb5 cxb5 32.Be3
+- (1.65) Depth: 30/78 00:08:28 20249MN, tb=3584
9.f5 Nxf5
+/- (1.59 --) Depth: 31/83 00:09:04 21693MN, tb=3879
9.f5 Nxf5 10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qe5 12.Rf1 Kh8 13.c3 h6 14.h4 c5 15.Bxc5 Nxc5 16.Rf8+ Kh7 17.Nf6+ Qxf6 18.Rxf6 gxf6 19.h5 Kh8 20.Qg6 Ne6 21.Qxh6+ Kg8 22.Qg6+ Kh8 23.Qxf6+ Kg8 24.Kf2 a5 25.Qg6+ Kh8 26.Qe8+ Kg7 27.a4 Kh7 28.Qg6+ Kh8 29.Qf7 b6 30.Qf3 d5 31.Qf6+ Kh7 32.Qg6+ Kh8 33.h6 d4
+- (1.63) Depth: 31/83 00:09:44 23348MN, tb=4345
9.f5 Nxf5 10.Rxf5 Qxf5 11.Nd5 Qe5 12.Rf1 Kh8 13.c3 h6 14.h4 c5 15.Bxc5 Nxc5 16.Rf8+ Kh7 17.Nf6+ Qxf6 18.Rxf6 gxf6 19.h5 Kh8 20.Qg6 Ne6 21.Qxh6+ Kg8 22.Qg6+ Kh8 23.Qxf6+ Kg8 24.Kf2 a5 25.Qg6+ Kh8 26.Qe8+ Kg7 27.a4 Kh7 28.Qg6+ Kh8 29.Qf7 b6 30.Qf3 d5 31.Qf6+ Kh7 32.Qg6+ Kh8 33.h6 d4
+- (1.63) Depth: 31/83 00:09:44 23348MN, tb=4345
yanquis1972
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by yanquis1972 »

makes one wonder what topalovs hardware is, unless the 30 minutes was a very conservative estimate. 4+ minutes for houdini tactical on mega hardware suggests to me itd take hours possibly verging on days for a normal search on a typical i7...
yanquis1972
Posts: 1766
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:14 am

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by yanquis1972 »

seems i overestimated the difficulty; this is jan 17 SF on 10 threads (6CPU i7):


22.36 1.f5 (depth 44, 1/39), 21G nodes (15.4M nps)
0.00: +1.57/3 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.b3
0.00: +1.45/4 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.b4 b6
0.00: +1.41/5 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Nd5 Nxd5 3.Rxd5
0.00: +1.08/6 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Rfe1 b6 3.b3 Nf5
0.00: +1.02/7 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Kf2 b6 3.Rg1 d6 4.b3
0.00: +1.02/8 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Kf2 b6 3.Rg1 d6 4.b3 Bb7
0.00: +0.93/9 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Kf2 d6 3.b3 b6 4.Bd2 Kf7 5.Rfe1 Bb7
0.00: +0.79/10 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Kf2 b6 3.Rg1 d6 4.Ne4 Kf7 5.Ng5+ Nxg5 6.Rxg5 Nf5
0.00: +0.84/11 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Bd2 d6 4.Ng5 Bd7 5.Rde1 Re8 6.Bc3 b6 7.b3
0.00: +0.73/12 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Bd2 b6 4.Ng5 Ba6 5.Rfe1 Nxg5 6.fxg5 Nd4
0.00: +0.74/13 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 b6 4.Ng5 Nxg5 5.fxg5 d6 6.Bd2 Bb7 7.Bf4 Kf7
0.00: +0.72/14 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Bc1 b6 4.Ng5 Ba6 5.Nxe6 Bxf1 6.Rxd7 Bc4 7.Nxc7 Rc8 8.b3 Be2 9.Bb2
0.00: +0.91/15 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Bd2 b6 4.Ng5 Ba6 5.Rf2 Nxg5 6.fxg5 Re8 7.Re1 Rxe1+ 8.Bxe1 c5 9.Kg2 Bb7+ 10.Kh3 d6 11.Bc3
0.00: +0.78/16 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Bd2 b6 4.Rde1 c5 5.Ng5 Bb7 6.Bc3 Nc7 7.Be5 Nd5 8.Rf2 Re8 9.b3
0.00: +0.81/17 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Bd2 b6 4.Ng5 Bb7 5.Nxe6 dxe6 6.Bc3 Ne3 7.Rd7 Nxf1 8.Rxg7+ Kf8 9.Kxf1 Ke8 10.Rxc7 Be4 11.Be5
0.00: +0.69/18 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Bd2 b6 4.Ng5 Bb7 5.Bc3 Nxg5 6.fxg5 d5 7.Bd2 d4 8.Bf4 c5 9.Rde1 Bd5 10.b3 Bb7 11.Re6
0.00: +0.64/19 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 b6 4.Ng5 Nxg5 5.fxg5 d6 6.Rd3 Kf7 7.Bf2 Be6 8.b3 Rh8 9.Rc3 c5 10.Rf3 Bd5 11.Rf4
0.00: +0.71/20 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 b6 4.Ng5 Nxg5 5.fxg5 d6 6.Rd3 Ba6 7.Ra3 Bb7 8.Bf2 c5 9.c4 d5 10.cxd5 Bxd5 11.Rd1 Bc6 12.Rdd3
0.01: +0.67/21 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 d6 4.Rd3 Bd7 5.Ng5 b6 6.Ra3 Nxg5 7.fxg5 Kf7 8.Bd2 Be6 9.b4 Nd4 10.Rc3 Rc8 11.Re4 Nf5 12.Rf4 Bxa2
0.01: +0.68/22 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 Nh4 4.Nd2 d6 5.Bf2 Nf5 6.Nf3 b6 7.Ng5 Nxg5 8.fxg5 Ba6 9.Bg3 Bb7 10.Rd3 Kf7 11.Rc3 c5 12.Rd3 d5 13.Rd2 d4
0.01: +0.66/23 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 Nh4 4.Nd2 d6 5.Bf2 Nf5 6.Nf3 b6 7.Ng5 Nxg5 8.fxg5 Ba6 9.Bg3 Kf7 10.Rd2 Bb7 11.Rf2 Re8 12.Rxe8 Kxe8 13.Rf4 Kf7 14.Rf2 Bc6
0.02: +0.62/24 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 d6 4.Rd3 b6 5.Ng5 Nxg5 6.fxg5 Ba6 7.Ra3 Bb7 8.Bf2 Kf7 9.Ra4 c5 10.b3 d5 11.c3 Bc6 12.Rf4 Re8 13.Rxe8 Bxe8 14.Kf1 Ke6 15.Kg2 Bc6 16.Kh3
0.02: +0.66/25 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 d6 4.Rd3 a5 5.Ng5 b5 6.Bf2 Nxg5 7.fxg5 b4 8.Rf3 Bb7 9.Rf4 Bd5 10.a4 Rb8 11.b3 c5 12.Bg3 Nd4 13.Rf2 Nf3+ 14.Rxf3 Bxf3
0.02: +0.66/26 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 d6 4.Rd3 a5 5.Ng5 b5 6.Bf2 Nxg5 7.fxg5 b4 8.Rf3 Bb7 9.Rf4 Bd5 10.a4 c5 11.b3 Rb8 12.h4 Ra8 13.Kh2 Rc8 14.Kh3 Kh7 15.Re2 c4
0.04: +0.64/27 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rfe1 d6 4.Rd3 a5 5.Ng5 Nxg5 6.fxg5 Bd7 7.Bf2 a4 8.Rf3 b5 9.Rf4 Kf7 10.a3 Rh8 11.h4 c5 12.Kf1 Bc6 13.Ke2 Re8+ 14.Kd3 Re5 15.c4 bxc4+ 16.Kc3 Ke6 17.Rxe5+ Kxe5
0.10: +0.68/28 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 b6 4.Ng5 Ba6 5.Rf2 Bb7 6.c4 Nh4 7.Nxe6 dxe6 8.Rd1 Bc6 9.Bc1 Nf3+ 10.Kf1 e5 11.b4 a6 12.Bb2 e4 13.Be5 e3 14.Rb2 Re8 15.Bxc7 Nd2+ 16.Rbxd2 exd2 17.Rxd2 Re4
0.13: +0.75/29 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 b6 4.Ng5 Ba6 5.Rf2 Bb7 6.c4 Nxg5 7.fxg5 Nh4 8.Ref1 c5 9.b3 d5 10.cxd5 Bxd5 11.Bd2 Re8 12.Bc3 Nf5 13.Re1 Rxe1+ 14.Bxe1 Nd4 15.Bd2 c4 16.bxc4
0.16: +0.69/30 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 b5 4.Ng5 Bb7 5.Bd2 Nfd4 6.Bc3 Nxg5 7.fxg5 Nf3+ 8.Rxf3 Bxf3 9.Re7 Kf8 10.Rxd7 Rc8 11.Bxg7+ Ke8 12.Rd3 Bc6 13.Kf2 Rd8 14.Rc3 Kd7 15.Bf6 Rf8 16.Ra3 Be4 17.c4 bxc4 18.Ke3 Bd5 19.Rxa7
0.40: +0.63/31 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 d6 4.Ng5 Bd7 5.Rf2 b5 6.a3 Nxg5 7.fxg5 a5 8.h3 a4 9.Kh2 Bc6 10.Rf4 Bd7 11.Bd2 Kh7 12.Rf2 Rh8 13.Ba5 c5 14.Bc7 Bc6 15.Rf4 Rc8 16.Ba5 Rh8 17.b3 axb3 18.cxb3 Bd5
0.52: +0.57/32 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 d6 4.Ng5 Bd7 5.Rf2 b5 6.Bd2 Nxg5 7.fxg5 a5 8.Bc3 Kf7 9.b3 b4 10.Bd2 Kg8 11.c3 c5 12.Ree2 Bc6 13.Re6 Bd5 14.Re1 Bc6 15.h3 Nh4 16.Re3 a4 17.cxb4 axb3 18.Rxb3 Rxa2 19.bxc5
0.58: +0.59/33 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 d6 4.Ng5 Bd7 5.Bc1 Nxg5 6.fxg5 a5 7.Rf4 Kf7 8.Be3 Rh8 9.Bf2 b5 10.c4 bxc4 11.Rxc4 c5 12.Rd1 Bc6 13.Rf4 Ke6 14.b3 Ke5 15.Rg4 Ke6 16.Rd2 Rb8 17.Kf1 Rb4 18.Rxb4 axb4 19.Ke2 Be4
1.38: +0.61/34 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 d6 3.Rde1 Bd7 4.b3 Nf5 5.Ng5 b5 6.c4 bxc4 7.bxc4 c5 8.Bd2 Nxg5 9.fxg5 Bc6 10.Bf4 Rd8 11.Rf2 Rb8 12.Rd2 Nd4 13.Kf1 Rb7 14.Red1 Rd7 15.Rf2 d5 16.cxd5 Rxd5 17.Re1 Bb5+ 18.Kg1 Rf5 19.Kg2 c4 20.Rc1 Ne6 21.Be3 Re5 22.Bd2
1.48: +0.59/35 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 d6 4.Ng5 Bd7 5.b3 b5 6.c4 bxc4 7.bxc4 c5 8.Bd2 Nxg5 9.fxg5 Bc6 10.Bf4 Rd8 11.Rf2 Rb8 12.Rd2 Nd4 13.Kf1 Rb7 14.Red1 Rd7 15.Rb1 Rd8 16.Rdb2 Kh7 17.Rf2 Kg8 18.Re1 Bd7 19.Kg2 Bc6+ 20.Kg3 Bd7 21.Bxd6
2.02: +0.56/36 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 d6 4.b3 Bd7 5.Ng5 b5 6.c4 bxc4 7.bxc4 c5 8.Bd2 Nxg5 9.fxg5 Bc6 10.Bc3 Kf7 11.Ba5 Kg8 12.Rf2 Rb8 13.Kf1 Bd7 14.Bc3 Kf7 15.Kg1 Bc6 16.Rd1 Ke7 17.Rdf1 Kf7 18.Rd2 Ke7 19.Re2+ Kf7 20.Rb2 Rh8 21.Rf4 Rh5
3.05: +0.64/37 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 d6 3.Rd3 Nf5 4.Re1 Bd7 5.Ng5 Nxg5 6.fxg5 Bc6 7.Bf2 a5 8.Rc3 a4 9.Rc4 Ra5 10.h4 Kf7 11.Rf4 Rd5 12.Be3 Rb5 13.Bd4 Rb4 14.Ref1 Ke6 15.Bc3 Re4 16.Re1 Rxe1+ 17.Bxe1 b5 18.Ba5 Ke5 19.Rf2 Be4 20.Bxc7 Nxh4 21.Re2 Nf5
3.43: +0.58/38 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rd3 d6 4.Re1 Bd7 5.Ng5 Nxg5 6.fxg5 Bc6 7.Bf2 a5 8.Rc3 a4 9.Rc4 Ra5 10.h4 Kf7 11.Rf4 Rd5 12.Be3 Rb5 13.Bd4 Rb4 14.Ref1 Ke6 15.Bc3 Re4 16.Re1 Rxe1+ 17.Bxe1 Bd7 18.b3 axb3 19.axb3 d5 20.Ba5 b6 21.Bd2 d4 22.Kf2 Ke5
4.23: +0.66/39 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 d6 4.b3 b5 5.Ng5 Bd7 6.c4 bxc4 7.bxc4 c5 8.Bd2 Nxg5 9.fxg5 Bc6 10.Bf4 Rd8 11.Rf2 Rb8 12.Rd2 Rb7 13.Red1 Nd4 14.Kf1 Rd7 15.Rb1 Rd8 16.Rdb2 Kf7 17.Re1 Nf5 18.Kg1 Rh8 19.Rd2 Rh4 20.Bxd6 Rxc4 21.Kf1 Bb5 22.Kf2
5.24: +0.71/40 1.Qxg6 hxg6 2.Ne4 Nf5 3.Rde1 d6 4.Ng5 Bd7 5.b3 b5 6.c4 bxc4 7.bxc4 c5 8.Bd2 Nxg5 9.fxg5 Bc6 10.Bf4 Rd8 11.Rf2 Rb8 12.Rd2 Rb7 13.Red1 Nd4 14.Kf1 Rd7 15.Rb1 Rd8 16.Rdb2 Rd7 17.Rc1 Rd8 18.Rd1 Be4 19.Rf2 d5 20.Be3 dxc4 21.Rf4 Bd3+ 22.Kg2 Nf5 23.Bxc5
9.47: +0.64/41 1.Qxg6
14.23: +1.61/41 1.f5 Nxf5 2.Rxf5 Qxf5 3.Nd5 Qe5 4.Rf1 d6 5.c3 Bd7 6.Rf5 Nf4 7.Rxf4 Rf8 8.Rxf8+ Kxf8 9.c4 c6 10.Qf2+ Kg8 11.Nc3 Qe6 12.Qf4 h6 13.Bf2 a5 14.Bg3 d5 15.cxd5 cxd5 16.Qe5 Qb6+ 17.Bf2 Qxb2 18.Qxd5+ Kh7 19.Qd3+ Kg8 20.Qxd7 Qxc3 21.Qe8+ Kh7 22.Qe4+ Kg8 23.Bd4 Qc1+ 24.Kf2 b5 25.Qe5 Qc2+ 26.Ke3 Qc1+ 27.Kf3 Qd1+ 28.Kg3 Qd3+ 29.Kg2 Qg6+ 30.Kf3 Qf7+ 31.Ke4 b4 32.Qxa5 b3 33.Qd8+ Kh7
16.15: +1.74/42 1.f5 Nxf5 2.Rxf5 Qxf5 3.Nd5 Qe5 4.Rf1 d6 5.c3 Bd7 6.Rf5 Nf4 7.Rxf4 Rf8 8.Rxf8+ Kxf8 9.Qf3+ Kg8 10.Nxc7 Bc6 11.Qh3 Bd7 12.Qg3 Qe4 13.Qf4 Qb1+ 14.Bc1 Qxa2 15.Qxd6 Qb1 16.Qf4 Bc6 17.Kf2 Qc2+ 18.Ke1 Qg2 19.Ne6 Qh1+ 20.Qf1 Qe4+ 21.Qe2 Qh4+ 22.Kf1 Qf6+ 23.Nf4 g5 24.Qe6+ Qf7 25.Qxf7+ Kxf7 26.Ne2 Kf6 27.Be3 b6 28.Nd4 Bb7 29.Kf2 Be4 30.Kg3
21.00: +1.79/43 1.f5 Nxf5 2.Rxf5 Qxf5 3.Nd5 Qf8 4.Rf1 Qd8 5.Qf2 b5 6.Nxc7 h6 7.Nxa8 Bb7 8.Qf7+ Kh8 9.Qh5 Bxa8 10.Bxh6 gxh6 11.Qxh6+ Kg8 12.Qg6+ Ng7 13.Rf7 Qb6+ 14.Qxb6 axb6 15.Rxd7 Be4 16.c3 Nf5 17.Kf2 Kf8 18.Rd8+ Ke7 19.Rb8 Kd6 20.Rxb6+ Kc5 21.Rb8 Bb1 22.a3 Be4 23.Rc8+ Kd5 24.Re8 Bc2 25.Kf3 Nd6 26.Rd8 Ke5 27.h4 Bd1+ 28.Kf2 Bg4 29.Rh8 Ne4+ 30.Ke3 Nd6 31.Rb8 Nf5+ 32.Kd3 Nxh4
22.36: +1.94/44 1.f5
MikeGL
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm

Re: Possible Test Position?

Post by MikeGL »

Michael Neish wrote:I haven't posted here for ages. Anyway, Topalov is currently giving a master class live at the Gibraltar Masters.

http://www.gibraltarchesscongress.com/l ... rclass.htm

Literally a few minutes ago, he discussed a position that (I think) arose in a game that he played blindfold.

The winning move that he played is (apparently) f5 and he commented that even today's strong engines take a bit of time to find it.

My apologies if this position has been discussed here before. I just thought it would be interesting to post it.

[D]r1b3k1/ppppn1pp/4n1q1/8/5P2/2N1B3/PPP3QP/3R1RK1 w - - 1 9
Thanks for posting this tough position. Quite amazing how tactical engines are having difficulty on this test position. Was the blindfold game of Topalov where this position arised posted online? Was that blindfold game an official game or an unofficial one?

I don't doubt the strength of Topalov but this position is really tough maybe even if a super GM is *not* blindfolded. The back rank mate threat is quite deep, and it's either winning the a8 rook or back rank mate. Maybe this is just a side analysis on one of his blindfold games? Because I have analyzed the latest FIDE rated games of Topalov and even simple tactics were missed and better winning alternatives were suggested by engines.