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Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:27 pm
by Sean Evans
Only ten Elo rating points between the top three programs is quite amazing at this strength level
Very exciting times in the computer chess world! We need a round-robin playoff between these three programs, may be 100 games
It would potentially make for some great chess game to review and analyze!
CCRL Elo List
Stockfish 8 64-bit 4CPU Elo 3390
Houdini 5.01 64-bit 4CPU Elo 3387
Komodo 10.3 64-bit 4CPU Elo 3380
Cordially,
Sean
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:09 pm
by Leo
I think on powerful hardware like that used in the TCEC the difference is greater.
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:46 pm
by Jouni
But no more if Houdini 6 makes another 200 ELO jump
.
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:58 pm
by Werewolf
SzG wrote:Jouni wrote:But no more if Houdini 6 makes another 200 ELO jump
.
For that to happen Stockfish has to make a 200 Elo jump first.
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:37 pm
by Milos
Leo wrote:I think on powerful hardware like that used in the TCEC the difference is greater.
Lol, sure, the "law of augmented returns".
The longer the TC, the more difference between engines.
Sound like a commercial for mentally challenged. The more money you spent the richer you'd be
.
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:26 am
by gerold
Werewolf wrote:SzG wrote:Jouni wrote:But no more if Houdini 6 makes another 200 ELO jump
.
For that to happen Stockfish has to make a 200 Elo jump first.
you got that right. SF leads the way.
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:56 am
by mjlef
Sean,
In case you missed it, we release Komodo 10.4 in March. It has tested as considerably stronger than Komodo 10.4.
Mark
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:21 am
by Dann Corbit
Milos wrote:Leo wrote:I think on powerful hardware like that used in the TCEC the difference is greater.
Lol, sure, the "law of augmented returns".
The longer the TC, the more difference between engines.
Sound like a commercial for mentally challenged. The more money you spent the richer you'd be
.
If it is true, it is extremely surprising.
I would expect that under longer and longer time control you would see more and more draws and the Elo values would converge.
If an engine gets larger and larger Elo advantage at bigger time control or with a big thread count that would really be astonishing.
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:49 am
by BrendanJNorman
mjlef wrote:Sean,
In case you missed it, we release Komodo 10.4 in March. It has tested as considerably stronger than Komodo 10.4.
Mark
My copy is about equal strength.
Re: Top Three Engines Are Essentially Equal Strength!
Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:44 am
by lkaufman
BrendanJNorman wrote:mjlef wrote:Sean,
In case you missed it, we release Komodo 10.4 in March. It has tested as considerably stronger than Komodo 10.4.
Mark
My copy is about equal strength.
On the CCRL 40/40 single thread list, Komodo 10.4 is 34 elo ahead of 10.3 after 770 games. It doesn't have enough 4 cpu games yet to talk about the difference there. Overall I think our 20 elo estimated gain was conservative.
Regarding the effect of longer time controls (and/or more cores), if one engine is stronger because of more efficient code then the difference will shrink with more time. But if one scales better than another, either due to better chess knowledge or better pruning/reducing, it is possible for it to gain elo relative to the other engine with more time. It seems pretty clear that both Stockfish and Komodo scale better than Houdini with more time; between SF and Komodo the evidence is mixed.