What a move 11.a3!! Aronian-Carlsen_Norway Chess 2017

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Maybe the best chance for black is to trade rooks after 26...Rb8:
[d]1r3k2/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3P4/4P3/3B1PPP/6K1 w - - 1 27

27.Rxb8 Nxb8 28.Kf1 Nd7 29.Ba5 Nf6 30.Bc7 Nd5 31.Bd6+ Ke8 32.Ke2
but Stockfish is here also already over +3:

53/78 11:16 70.424.959k 104.159k -3,04 32. ... Nf6 33.h4 Ne4 34.Be5 f6 35.f3 Nc3+ 36.Kd3 Nb5 37.Bg3 g6 38.Bb8 Ke7 39.e4 Kd8 40.g4 Kc8 41.Bd6 Kd7 42.Bg3 h5 43.Bf4 Na3 44.Bd2 Kc7 45.g5 fxg5 46.Bxg5 Kb7 47.Bf6 Kc7 48.Kc3 Nb5+ 49.Kb4 Kd7 50.Be5 Na7 51.Kc4 Nc8 52.Bf4 Ne7 53.Kd3 Nc8 54.Bg5 Na7 55.Kc4 Nb5 56.Bf4 Na3+ 57.Kb3 Nb5 58.Be5 Na7 59.Kb4 Nc8 60.Kc4 Ne7 61.Bf6 Nc8 62.d5 exd5+ 63.exd5 cxd5+ 64.Kxd5 Ke8 65.Be5 Ke7 66.Bf4

this is already ludicrous, my SF is showing only 150cps white edge, and the most white can get is certainly a position like:

[d]8/4k2n/2p3p1/2P1P2p/3BP2P/8/5KP1/8 b - - 0 18

which is an obvious fortress.

you SF must be suffering from summer heat (Sommerhitze)

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

again, you are choosing yourself some line 5 or so moves long, and then start running SF on it.

I do not think that is very scientific.

I do not know when will people understand that a drawn position is simply drawn.

My SF sees something like this line:

[pgn][Event "Blitz 1m"]
[Site "Microsoft"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Stockfish 8 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "SF 8, owner"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "owner"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "1r3k2/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3P4/4P3/3B1PPP/6K1 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "60"]
[TimeControl "60"]

{512MB, OWNER-PC} 1. Rxb8+ {1.27/18 0} Nxb8 {1.28/16 0} 2. f3 {1.33/19 0} f6 {
1.36/17 0} 3. Kf2 {1.33/22 1} e5 {1.33/24 0} 4. Ke2 {1.41/28 0} Kf7 {1.40/28 0}
5. dxe5 {1.41/28 0} fxe5 {1.39/31 0} 6. Kd3 {1.41/31 0} Nd7 {1.41/32 0} 7. Kc4
{1.41/31 0} Ke6 {1.41/31 0} 8. e4 {1.42/28 0} Kf6 {1.48/23 0} 9. Ba5 {1.76/22 0
} g5 {1.64/25 0} 10. Bd8+ {1.60/25 0} Ke6 {1.77/23 0} 11. h4 {1.63/27 0} gxh4 {
1.57/28 0} 12. Bxh4 {1.52/29 0} h5 {1.59/28 0} 13. Kb4 {1.66/27 0} Kf7 {1.49/
30 0} 14. Bg3 {1.47/28 0} Ke7 {1.50/28 0} 15. Be1 {1.49/29 0} Kf8 {1.47/31 0}
16. Bd2 {1.47/26 0} Ke8 {1.47/31 0} 17. Bg5 {1.47/32 0} Nf8 {1.47/33 0} 18. Bh4
{1.47/33 0} Nd7 {1.47/35 0} 19. Kc4 {1.47/34 0} Nf8 {1.47/37 0} 20. Bg3 {1.74/
26 0} Nd7 {1.47/36 0} 21. Be1 {1.47/35 0} Ke7 {1.47/39 0} 22. Bf2 {1.47/40 0}
Kd8 {1.47/41 0} 23. Bh4+ {1.47/32 0} Ke8 {1.47/41 0} 24. Bg3 {1.47/43 0} Kd8 {
1.47/44 0} 25. Kc3 {1.47/44 0} Kc7 {1.47/36 0} 26. Kb4 {1.47/39 0} Kd8 {1.47/
42 0} 27. Bf2 {1.47/40 0} Kc7 {1.47/40 0} 28. Bh4 {1.47/39 0} Nf8 {1.47/39 0}
29. Ka5 {1.47/40 1} Ng6 {1.47/39 0} 30. Bf6 {1.47/39 0} Kb7 {1.47/39 0} 1/2-1/2

[/pgn]

do you notice the frozen 147cps score?

obvious fortress.

btw., thanks for this position, I did not notice black has a chance of trading rooks because of the mate threat on the first rank, so now the draw is even more obvious.

[Jeroen]

Here a more serious game, played on my Core i5 notebook. Game in 60 minutes, no TB, both use 1 core. Game over in 20 moves from the starting position, when black is totally lost. Already at move 36 black is losing.

[pgn][Event "Core i5 @1.8GHz, Rapid 60m"]
[Site "Chess"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Houdini 5.01 x64-popc"]
[Black "Stockfish 180317 64 POPCNT"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45"]
[Annotator "1.22;1.21"]
[PlyCount "91"]
[TimeControl "3600"]

{Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3337U CPU @ 1.80GHz 1796 MHz W=26.1 plies; 2.019kN/s
B=31.9 plies; 1.495kN/s} 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 a6 6. b3
Bb4 7. Bd2 Nbd7 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. Bc2 Rd8 11. a3 Bxa3 12. Rxa3 Qxa3 13.
c5 Ne4 14. Bxe4 dxe4 15. Ng5 h6 16. Ngxe4 a5 17. Qc2 a4 18. bxa4 Qb4 19. Nd6
Qa5 20. Nd5 Qxa4 21. Ne7+ Kf8 22. Qxa4 Rxa4 23. Nexc8 Ra8 24. Rb1 Rdxc8 25.
Nxc8 Rxc8 26. Rxb7 {Both last book move} Ra8 {1.21/36 344} 27. Kf1 {1.22/28 240
} Ke7 {1.23/35 349 (Ra1+)} 28. e4 {1.31/25 81} Kd8 {1.52/35 463} 29. Bf4 {
1.37/26 73} f5 {1.37/32 43} 30. exf5 {1.23/28 112} exf5 {1.38/30 12} 31. Bd6 {
1.27/27 53} g5 {1.47/32 87} 32. Rc7 {1.32/27 117 (Ke2)} Ra1+ {1.52/33 72} 33.
Ke2 {1.38/1 0} Ra6 {1.47/34 78} 34. g3 {1.39/26 128 (Kd3)} g4 {1.79/33 297} 35.
Bf4 {1.82/25 47 (Kd3)} Nf6 {2.57/35 272} 36. Rf7 {2.15/25 42} Ra2+ {2.69/34 94}
37. Kf1 {2.29/27 70 (Kd3)} Ne4 {2.26/28 29} 38. d5 {2.29/25 0} Nxc5 {2.18/27 10
} 39. dxc6 {2.44/27 43} Ne6 {2.62/32 94} 40. Bxh6 {2.44/25 0} Rc2 {3.02/28 7}
41. Rxf5 {2.71/28 125} Ke7 {3.14/34 79} 42. Be3 {2.83/26 49} Rxc6 {3.36/32 16}
43. Kg2 {2.83/24 0 (f3)} Rc3 {2.77/26 22 (Rd6)} 44. Ra5 {2.93/26 52 (h4)} Rc8 {
3.63/31 229} 45. h3 {3.07/25 41} gxh3+ {3.82/31 64} 46. Kxh3 {3.13/25 46 adjud.
} 1-0[/pgn]

[MikeB]

a little longer time control - McB25 ( not yet released) vs K1101 and the second game is dev-SF vs K1101 with same settings
game 5 min 5 sec, with two cores

the third game under the ellipsis pull-down on t upper left is McB vs Dev-SF, 8 cores each , game 10 min/10 sec McB was seeing mate in 18 moves

[pgn][Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "-"]
[White "McBrain 2.5 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "Komodo 11.01 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[FEN "1r3k2/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3P4/4P3/3B1PPP/6K1 w - - 1 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. Rxb8+ {+1.35/31 +287} Nxb8 {-1.46/24 +300} 2. Kf1 {+1.37/32 +291} Ke7
{-1.38/27 +291} 3. Ke2 {+1.35/32 +287} Nd7 {-1.42/28 +284} 4. Bb4
{+1.36/29 +289} f5 {-1.53/29 +267} 5. Kd3 {+1.37/30 +286} g5
{-1.46/30 +252} 6. f3 {+1.43/33 +284} Kf7 {-1.56/30 +247} 7. Kc4
{+1.43/32 +288} Nf6 {-1.59/28 +237} 8. Ba5 {+1.53/33 +274} Nd5
{-1.60/29 +228} 9. Bd2 {+1.53/29 +275} Nf6 {-1.72/30 +207} 10. Kd3
{+1.56/30 +271} Nd7 {-1.60/30 +199} 11. e4 {+1.74/29 +269} Nf6
{-1.50/30 +193} 12. h4 {+1.72/30 +272} Kg6 {-1.50/32 +185} 13. hxg5
{+1.78/33 +270} hxg5 {-1.68/28 +186} 14. Ke3 {+1.79/32 +272} Kf7
{-1.65/31 +182} 15. Bc3 {+1.85/33 +271} Nd7 {-1.86/34 +119} 16. Ba5
{+2.34/33 +270} Ke7 {-1.66/29 +119} 17. exf5 {+4.37/27 +270} exf5
{-4.36/29 +111} 18. d5 {+4.71/26 +271} cxd5 {-6.08/32 +94} 19. Kd4
{+7.25/29 +268} Ke6 {-8.14/29 +88} 20. c6 {+11.04/28 +262} Ne5
{-1.68/27 +90} 21. c7 {+14.81/26 +260} Nc6+ {-11.52/28 +90} 22. Kc5
{+56.20/25 +263} Na7 {-18.34/29 +87} 23. Bb6 {+128.39/35 +261} Nc8
{-250.00/32 +87} 24. Kc6 {+128.40/32 +263} Ne7+ {-250.00/36 +82} 25. Kb7
{+128.42/37 +256} Kd7 {-250.00/37 +79} 26. Bc5 {+128.43/40 +248} Nc8
{-250.00/37 +68} 27. Kb8 {+128.44/39 +246} g4 {-250.00/36 +29} 28. fxg4
{+128.45/37 +240} f4 {-250.00/25 +32} 29. Kb7 {+128.45/34 +241} d4
{-250.00/28 +34} 30. Bxd4 {+128.46/38 +235} Nd6+ {-250.00/31 +36} 31. Kb8
{+128.47/37 +237} Nc8 {-250.00/31 +36} 32. Bc5 {+128.48/36 +226} Ke6
{-250.00/33 +38} 33. Kxc8 {+128.49/38 +218} Kf6 {-250.00/33 +38} 34. Bd6
{+128.50/37 +220} Kf7 {-250.00/38 +39} 35. Bxf4 {+128.50/39 +208} Ke6
{-1000.06/31 +43} 36. Kd8 {+1000.06/90 +205} Kd5 {-1000.05/59 +48} 37. c8=Q
{+1000.05/101 +208} Kd4 {-1000.04/99 +52} 38. Qc2 {+1000.04/127 +212} Kd5
{-1000.03/5 +57} 39. Kd7 {+1000.03/127 +217} Kd4 {-1000.02/5 +62} 40. Qb3
{+1000.02/127 +222} Ke4 {-1000.01/99 +67} 41. Qc4# {+1000.01/127 +227}
{White mates} 1-0

[Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Stockfish 140617 64 POPC"]
[Black "Komodo 11.01 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[FEN "1r3k2/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3P4/4P3/3B1PPP/6K1 w - - 1 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

{--------------
. r . . . k . .
. R . n . p p .
. . p . p . . p
. . P . . . . .
. . . P . . . .
. . . . P . . .
. . . B . P P P
. . . . . . K .
white to play
--------------}
1. Rxb8+ {+1.32/31 +290} Nxb8 {-1.45/26 +299} 2. Kf1 {+1.41/33 +278} Ke7
{-1.41/26 +290} 3. Ba5 {+1.48/33 +264} Na6 {-1.44/27 +284} 4. Ke2
{+1.50/32 +263} e5 {-1.38/27 +282} 5. dxe5 {+1.74/27 +263} Ke6
{-1.48/27 +274} 6. Kd3 {+1.78/26 +266} Nxc5+ {-1.68/26 +266} 7. Kc4
{+1.54/35 +236} Na4 {-1.45/26 +264} 8. f4 {+1.77/34 +237} Nb2+
{-1.84/28 +254} 9. Kd4 {+2.09/33 +229} h5 {-2.21/27 +245} 10. Bb6
{+2.29/33 +229} Kf5 {-2.14/32 +230} 11. g3 {+2.47/32 +231} Ke6
{-2.17/33 +220} 12. e4 {+2.50/38 +230} Nd1 {-2.17/34 +216} 13. Kc4
{+2.71/37 +230} Nb2+ {-1.65/29 +215} 14. Kd4 {+2.89/35 +229} Nd1
{-2.17/32 +215} 15. f5+ {+3.02/31 +232} Kd7 {-2.47/31 +214} 16. Kd3
{+3.10/36 +229} Nb2+ {-2.51/34 +207} 17. Kc2 {+3.10/38 +232} Nc4
{-2.57/33 +205} 18. Bd4 {+3.24/38 +227} Na3+ {-2.82/32 +180} 19. Kd3
{+3.68/31 +227} Nb5 {-2.83/33 +177} 20. h3 {+4.74/29 +222} Ke7
{-3.26/29 +174} 21. g4 {+5.22/29 +219} hxg4 {-4.60/31 +150} 22. hxg4
{+6.72/30 +214} Kf8 {-5.91/31 +143} 23. Kc4 {+8.91/31 +211} Na3+
{-7.34/32 +130} 24. Kc5 {+10.45/26 +214} Nc2 {-9.21/31 +127} 25. Bf2
{+15.14/28 +213} Ke7 {-11.91/31 +124} 26. Kxc6 {+18.05/27 +215} Nb4+
{-13.59/32 +121} 27. Kc7 {+128.27/29 +212} Nd3 {-14.59/33 +116} 28. Bh4+
{+128.30/28 +215} Kf8 {-25.40/31 +113} 29. Kd6 {+128.37/41 +213} Nb2
{-250.00/34 +113}
{User adjudication} 1-0

[Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "-"]
[White "McBrain 2.5 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "Stockfish 140617 64 POPC"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "600+10"]
[FEN "1r3k2/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3P4/4P3/3B1PPP/6K1 w - - 1 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. Rxb8+ {+1.45/38 +578} Nxb8 {-1.54/40 +559} 2. Kf1 {+1.43/35 +585} f6
{-1.62/39 +534} 3. Ke2 {+1.57/33 +585} Nd7 {-1.63/39 +540} 4. g4
{+1.66/36 +575} Ke8 {-1.63/35 +532} 5. Kd3 {+1.75/35 +575} Ke7
{-2.10/36 +485} 6. f3 {+2.41/40 +481} Kf7 {-2.30/39 +430} 7. Kc4
{+3.03/42 +407} f5 {-2.31/46 +423} 8. gxf5 {+3.13/42 +409} exf5
{-3.00/38 +426} 9. e4 {+3.14/33 +416} fxe4 {-3.49/45 +410} 10. fxe4
{+4.04/41 +383} Nf6 {-3.56/35 +417} 11. Kd3 {+4.12/28 +390} Ke7
{-4.82/41 +367} 12. h4 {+4.56/37 +389} Ke6 {-5.81/46 +340} 13. Bf4
{+4.77/38 +397} Ng4 {-6.60/48 +285} 14. Ke2 {+5.07/39 +397} Nf6
{-7.47/48 +236} 15. Ke3 {+5.25/28 +402} Nd7 {-7.46/36 +222} 16. Kd3
{+7.32/30 +401} Ke7 {-8.31/41 +200} 17. Bd6+ {+52.87/27 +400} Ke6
{-7.95/41 +187} 18. e5 {+128.38/47 +400} g6 {-128.39/51 +170} 19. Ke4
{+128.39/43 +406} g5 {-128.39/62 +162} 20. hxg5 {+128.40/49 +399} hxg5
{-128.40/70 +170} 21. Kf3 {+128.41/48 +405}
{User adjudication} 1-0


[/pgn]

it looks pretty good to me for white, but I will let the experts have the final say...

[IQ]

indeed, the position is a DRAW, see relevant post, and you should apologise for a lot of bigmouthing.

I take this as your defeat in the Kf3 line. So you lost the challenge! Your analysis in that line was so pathetic (Nd7?, Nxe4?) that i lost all confidence in your so called "analysis skills". Q.E.D.

Why can't you just for once admit that the postition after Kf3 is lost and that your "improvements" Nd7 and Nxe4 do not work? A simple "I Lyudmil Tsvetkov made a mistake and neither Nd7 nor Nxe4 hold for black after Kf3. Roberto was correct in the Kf3 line.". If you write this and this only in a single post (no additional text with lame excuses), then I will propose another challenge and will show you that Kd8 after e4 in your "simple draw" position also looses. To give you a heads up: after e4 Kd8 Bf4! Ra1+ Ke2 Ra2+ I will play Kd3!.......

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Here a more serious game, played on my Core i5 notebook. Game in 60 minutes, no TB, both use 1 core. Game over in 20 moves from the starting position, when black is totally lost. Already at move 36 black is losing.

[pgn][Event "Core i5 @1.8GHz, Rapid 60m"]
[Site "Chess"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Houdini 5.01 x64-popc"]
[Black "Stockfish 180317 64 POPCNT"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45"]
[Annotator "1.22;1.21"]
[PlyCount "91"]
[TimeControl "3600"]

{Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3337U CPU @ 1.80GHz 1796 MHz W=26.1 plies; 2.019kN/s
B=31.9 plies; 1.495kN/s} 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 a6 6. b3
Bb4 7. Bd2 Nbd7 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. Bc2 Rd8 11. a3 Bxa3 12. Rxa3 Qxa3 13.
c5 Ne4 14. Bxe4 dxe4 15. Ng5 h6 16. Ngxe4 a5 17. Qc2 a4 18. bxa4 Qb4 19. Nd6
Qa5 20. Nd5 Qxa4 21. Ne7+ Kf8 22. Qxa4 Rxa4 23. Nexc8 Ra8 24. Rb1 Rdxc8 25.
Nxc8 Rxc8 26. Rxb7 {Both last book move} Ra8 {1.21/36 344} 27. Kf1 {1.22/28 240
} Ke7 {1.23/35 349 (Ra1+)} 28. e4 {1.31/25 81} Kd8 {1.52/35 463} 29. Bf4 {
1.37/26 73} f5 {1.37/32 43} 30. exf5 {1.23/28 112} exf5 {1.38/30 12} 31. Bd6 {
1.27/27 53} g5 {1.47/32 87} 32. Rc7 {1.32/27 117 (Ke2)} Ra1+ {1.52/33 72} 33.
Ke2 {1.38/1 0} Ra6 {1.47/34 78} 34. g3 {1.39/26 128 (Kd3)} g4 {1.79/33 297} 35.
Bf4 {1.82/25 47 (Kd3)} Nf6 {2.57/35 272} 36. Rf7 {2.15/25 42} Ra2+ {2.69/34 94}
37. Kf1 {2.29/27 70 (Kd3)} Ne4 {2.26/28 29} 38. d5 {2.29/25 0} Nxc5 {2.18/27 10
} 39. dxc6 {2.44/27 43} Ne6 {2.62/32 94} 40. Bxh6 {2.44/25 0} Rc2 {3.02/28 7}
41. Rxf5 {2.71/28 125} Ke7 {3.14/34 79} 42. Be3 {2.83/26 49} Rxc6 {3.36/32 16}
43. Kg2 {2.83/24 0 (f3)} Rc3 {2.77/26 22 (Rd6)} 44. Ra5 {2.93/26 52 (h4)} Rc8 {
3.63/31 229} 45. h3 {3.07/25 41} gxh3+ {3.82/31 64} 46. Kxh3 {3.13/25 46 adjud.
} 1-0[/pgn]

so, you have a single game, between 2 different engines.

how statistically important is that?

I have 30+ games with 10 different engines and the score is 8 white wins and 22 draws.

certainly draws are many more.

but you need no analyse that, the simple B vs N eg is even more obvious and demonstrable draw.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

a little longer time control - McB25 ( not yet released) vs K1101 and the second game is dev-SF vs K1101 with same settings
game 5 min 5 sec, with two cores

the third game under the ellipsis pull-down on t upper left is McB vs Dev-SF, 8 cores each , game 10 min/10 sec McB was seeing mate in 18 moves

[pgn][Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "-"]
[White "McBrain 2.5 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "Komodo 11.01 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[FEN "1r3k2/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3P4/4P3/3B1PPP/6K1 w - - 1 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. Rxb8+ {+1.35/31 +287} Nxb8 {-1.46/24 +300} 2. Kf1 {+1.37/32 +291} Ke7
{-1.38/27 +291} 3. Ke2 {+1.35/32 +287} Nd7 {-1.42/28 +284} 4. Bb4
{+1.36/29 +289} f5 {-1.53/29 +267} 5. Kd3 {+1.37/30 +286} g5
{-1.46/30 +252} 6. f3 {+1.43/33 +284} Kf7 {-1.56/30 +247} 7. Kc4
{+1.43/32 +288} Nf6 {-1.59/28 +237} 8. Ba5 {+1.53/33 +274} Nd5
{-1.60/29 +228} 9. Bd2 {+1.53/29 +275} Nf6 {-1.72/30 +207} 10. Kd3
{+1.56/30 +271} Nd7 {-1.60/30 +199} 11. e4 {+1.74/29 +269} Nf6
{-1.50/30 +193} 12. h4 {+1.72/30 +272} Kg6 {-1.50/32 +185} 13. hxg5
{+1.78/33 +270} hxg5 {-1.68/28 +186} 14. Ke3 {+1.79/32 +272} Kf7
{-1.65/31 +182} 15. Bc3 {+1.85/33 +271} Nd7 {-1.86/34 +119} 16. Ba5
{+2.34/33 +270} Ke7 {-1.66/29 +119} 17. exf5 {+4.37/27 +270} exf5
{-4.36/29 +111} 18. d5 {+4.71/26 +271} cxd5 {-6.08/32 +94} 19. Kd4
{+7.25/29 +268} Ke6 {-8.14/29 +88} 20. c6 {+11.04/28 +262} Ne5
{-1.68/27 +90} 21. c7 {+14.81/26 +260} Nc6+ {-11.52/28 +90} 22. Kc5
{+56.20/25 +263} Na7 {-18.34/29 +87} 23. Bb6 {+128.39/35 +261} Nc8
{-250.00/32 +87} 24. Kc6 {+128.40/32 +263} Ne7+ {-250.00/36 +82} 25. Kb7
{+128.42/37 +256} Kd7 {-250.00/37 +79} 26. Bc5 {+128.43/40 +248} Nc8
{-250.00/37 +68} 27. Kb8 {+128.44/39 +246} g4 {-250.00/36 +29} 28. fxg4
{+128.45/37 +240} f4 {-250.00/25 +32} 29. Kb7 {+128.45/34 +241} d4
{-250.00/28 +34} 30. Bxd4 {+128.46/38 +235} Nd6+ {-250.00/31 +36} 31. Kb8
{+128.47/37 +237} Nc8 {-250.00/31 +36} 32. Bc5 {+128.48/36 +226} Ke6
{-250.00/33 +38} 33. Kxc8 {+128.49/38 +218} Kf6 {-250.00/33 +38} 34. Bd6
{+128.50/37 +220} Kf7 {-250.00/38 +39} 35. Bxf4 {+128.50/39 +208} Ke6
{-1000.06/31 +43} 36. Kd8 {+1000.06/90 +205} Kd5 {-1000.05/59 +48} 37. c8=Q
{+1000.05/101 +208} Kd4 {-1000.04/99 +52} 38. Qc2 {+1000.04/127 +212} Kd5
{-1000.03/5 +57} 39. Kd7 {+1000.03/127 +217} Kd4 {-1000.02/5 +62} 40. Qb3
{+1000.02/127 +222} Ke4 {-1000.01/99 +67} 41. Qc4# {+1000.01/127 +227}
{White mates} 1-0

[Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Stockfish 140617 64 POPC"]
[Black "Komodo 11.01 64-bit"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[FEN "1r3k2/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3P4/4P3/3B1PPP/6K1 w - - 1 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

{--------------
. r . . . k . .
. R . n . p p .
. . p . p . . p
. . P . . . . .
. . . P . . . .
. . . . P . . .
. . . B . P P P
. . . . . . K .
white to play
--------------}
1. Rxb8+ {+1.32/31 +290} Nxb8 {-1.45/26 +299} 2. Kf1 {+1.41/33 +278} Ke7
{-1.41/26 +290} 3. Ba5 {+1.48/33 +264} Na6 {-1.44/27 +284} 4. Ke2
{+1.50/32 +263} e5 {-1.38/27 +282} 5. dxe5 {+1.74/27 +263} Ke6
{-1.48/27 +274} 6. Kd3 {+1.78/26 +266} Nxc5+ {-1.68/26 +266} 7. Kc4
{+1.54/35 +236} Na4 {-1.45/26 +264} 8. f4 {+1.77/34 +237} Nb2+
{-1.84/28 +254} 9. Kd4 {+2.09/33 +229} h5 {-2.21/27 +245} 10. Bb6
{+2.29/33 +229} Kf5 {-2.14/32 +230} 11. g3 {+2.47/32 +231} Ke6
{-2.17/33 +220} 12. e4 {+2.50/38 +230} Nd1 {-2.17/34 +216} 13. Kc4
{+2.71/37 +230} Nb2+ {-1.65/29 +215} 14. Kd4 {+2.89/35 +229} Nd1
{-2.17/32 +215} 15. f5+ {+3.02/31 +232} Kd7 {-2.47/31 +214} 16. Kd3
{+3.10/36 +229} Nb2+ {-2.51/34 +207} 17. Kc2 {+3.10/38 +232} Nc4
{-2.57/33 +205} 18. Bd4 {+3.24/38 +227} Na3+ {-2.82/32 +180} 19. Kd3
{+3.68/31 +227} Nb5 {-2.83/33 +177} 20. h3 {+4.74/29 +222} Ke7
{-3.26/29 +174} 21. g4 {+5.22/29 +219} hxg4 {-4.60/31 +150} 22. hxg4
{+6.72/30 +214} Kf8 {-5.91/31 +143} 23. Kc4 {+8.91/31 +211} Na3+
{-7.34/32 +130} 24. Kc5 {+10.45/26 +214} Nc2 {-9.21/31 +127} 25. Bf2
{+15.14/28 +213} Ke7 {-11.91/31 +124} 26. Kxc6 {+18.05/27 +215} Nb4+
{-13.59/32 +121} 27. Kc7 {+128.27/29 +212} Nd3 {-14.59/33 +116} 28. Bh4+
{+128.30/28 +215} Kf8 {-25.40/31 +113} 29. Kd6 {+128.37/41 +213} Nb2
{-250.00/34 +113}
{User adjudication} 1-0

[Event "Mac Pro x5690 3.46 Ghz 18 CPU"]
[Site "Mac-Pro.local"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "-"]
[White "McBrain 2.5 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "Stockfish 140617 64 POPC"]
[Result "1-0"]
[TimeControl "600+10"]
[FEN "1r3k2/1R1n1pp1/2p1p2p/2P5/3P4/4P3/3B1PPP/6K1 w - - 1 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. Rxb8+ {+1.45/38 +578} Nxb8 {-1.54/40 +559} 2. Kf1 {+1.43/35 +585} f6
{-1.62/39 +534} 3. Ke2 {+1.57/33 +585} Nd7 {-1.63/39 +540} 4. g4
{+1.66/36 +575} Ke8 {-1.63/35 +532} 5. Kd3 {+1.75/35 +575} Ke7
{-2.10/36 +485} 6. f3 {+2.41/40 +481} Kf7 {-2.30/39 +430} 7. Kc4
{+3.03/42 +407} f5 {-2.31/46 +423} 8. gxf5 {+3.13/42 +409} exf5
{-3.00/38 +426} 9. e4 {+3.14/33 +416} fxe4 {-3.49/45 +410} 10. fxe4
{+4.04/41 +383} Nf6 {-3.56/35 +417} 11. Kd3 {+4.12/28 +390} Ke7
{-4.82/41 +367} 12. h4 {+4.56/37 +389} Ke6 {-5.81/46 +340} 13. Bf4
{+4.77/38 +397} Ng4 {-6.60/48 +285} 14. Ke2 {+5.07/39 +397} Nf6
{-7.47/48 +236} 15. Ke3 {+5.25/28 +402} Nd7 {-7.46/36 +222} 16. Kd3
{+7.32/30 +401} Ke7 {-8.31/41 +200} 17. Bd6+ {+52.87/27 +400} Ke6
{-7.95/41 +187} 18. e5 {+128.38/47 +400} g6 {-128.39/51 +170} 19. Ke4
{+128.39/43 +406} g5 {-128.39/62 +162} 20. hxg5 {+128.40/49 +399} hxg5
{-128.40/70 +170} 21. Kf3 {+128.41/48 +405}
{User adjudication} 1-0


[/pgn]

it looks pretty good to me for white, but I will let the experts have the final say...

this is already going 7 to 1; previously it was 5 to 1, but now more hating people joined into the tussle.

no one going to come to my rescue?

well, Mike, you have been matching 2 different engines, certainly not the best way to proceed.

just 3 games? but then, you might not have posted the 5 drawn ones?

I must admit this position is completely waful for engines, as they do not have fortress detection.

in my own quick tests, I have 9 wins and 11 draws after 20 games with 10 different engines at 1' + 1''.
draws still prevail, but not by much.

looking at the games, engines simply miss some obvious fortress positions. Komodo is fully awful here. Same for SF and the rest.

why do we need to develop such engines that are completely useless for analysis? I would agree with Daniel current engine development is in a deadlock.

I am 101% sure the position is a dead draw, can demosntrate it in every possible way, but top engines might well fail here.

Anyone having doubts Carlsen would have easily drawn this?

[Dann Corbit]

If I flip a coin ten times in a row and it comes up heads 10 times, does that mean it will always come up heads?

A trial or sequence of trials is never a proof.

Consider:
I saw 100,000 ducks and all of them were white.
Therefore, all ducks are white.
One black duck or green duck or brown duck makes the statement false.

Now, 100,000 chess games all with the same outcome would be solid evidence of repeatability. But it would only reflect the exact conditions of the test.

I think the move was interesting. And I think that it is hard to be absolutely certain about the outcomes of games from that position. And because those are merely viewpoints, they are not so controversial.

IMO-YMMV

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

indeed, the position is a DRAW, see relevant post, and you should apologise for a lot of bigmouthing.

I take this as your defeat in the Kf3 line. So you lost the challenge! Your analysis in that line was so pathetic (Nd7?, Nxe4?) that i lost all confidence in your so called "analysis skills". Q.E.D.

Why can't you just for once admit that the postition after Kf3 is lost and that your "improvements" Nd7 and Nxe4 do not work? A simple "I Lyudmil Tsvetkov made a mistake and neither Nd7 nor Nxe4 hold for black after Kf3. Roberto was correct in the Kf3 line.". If you write this and this only in a single post (no additional text with lame excuses), then I will propose another challenge and will show you that Kd8 after e4 in your "simple draw" position also looses. To give you a heads up: after e4 Kd8 Bf4! Ra1+ Ke2 Ra2+ I will play Kd3!.......

you are indeed pitiful.

just apologise.

[Jeroen]

The return game, this time Houdini has black. Another easy win for white. Took a little longer, but the result was never in doubt.

[pgn][Event "Core i5 @1.8GHz, Rapid 60m"]
[Site "Chess"]
[Date "2017.06.16"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 180317 64 POPCNT"]
[Black "Houdini 5.01 x64-popc"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D45"]
[Annotator "0.99;0.97"]
[PlyCount "123"]
[TimeControl "3600"]

{Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3337U CPU @ 1.80GHz 1796 MHz W=33.5 plies; 1.511kN/s
B=28.4 plies; 2.046kN/s} 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. Nc3 e6 5. e3 a6 6. b3
Bb4 7. Bd2 Nbd7 8. Bd3 O-O 9. O-O Qe7 10. Bc2 Rd8 11. a3 Bxa3 12. Rxa3 Qxa3 13.
c5 Ne4 14. Bxe4 dxe4 15. Ng5 h6 16. Ngxe4 a5 17. Qc2 a4 18. bxa4 Qb4 19. Nd6
Qa5 20. Nd5 Qxa4 21. Ne7+ Kf8 22. Qxa4 Rxa4 23. Nexc8 Ra8 24. Rb1 Rdxc8 25.
Nxc8 Rxc8 26. Rxb7 {Both last book move} Ra8 {0.97/28 156} 27. Kf1 {0.99/28 85}
Ke8 {1.08/30 143} 28. Rc7 {1.29/30 85} Ra6 {0.97/27 61} 29. Rc8+ {1.28/29 23}
Ke7 {0.97/1 0} 30. f3 {1.14/35 158} f6 {1.10/27 153 (f5)} 31. h4 {1.56/32 354}
f5 {1.38/26 222 (Kf7)} 32. Be1 {1.72/31 95} f4 {1.41/28 180 (Nf6)} 33. exf4 {
1.97/33 105} Nf6 {1.47/28 79} 34. Bd2 {1.83/32 16} Kf7 {1.53/27 99} 35. Rc7+ {
1.89/34 94} Kf8 {1.44/29 70} 36. g4 {1.93/33 14 (Kf2)} h5 {1.25/26 42} 37. f5 {
2.22/34 82} hxg4 {1.25/24 0} 38. fxg4 {2.25/32 18} exf5 {1.48/30 110} 39. gxf5
{2.43/35 63} Nd5 {1.44/28 17} 40. Rc8+ {2.60/35 68} Kf7 {1.64/33 145} 41. Bg5 {
2.59/32 12} g6 {1.64/32 2} 42. fxg6+ {2.66/35 79} Kxg6 {1.61/32 47} 43. Ke2 {
2.68/31 16} Kf5 {1.64/27 10} 44. Re8 {2.77/35 40} Ra3 {1.71/29 80} 45. Be3 {
2.77/36 22 (Bd2)} Kg4 {1.82/31 210} 46. Re4+ {2.85/37 77} Kf5 {2.18/33 202} 47.
Re5+ {3.30/36 161 (Kf3)} Kg6 {2.69/31 242} 48. h5+ {3.58/34 61} Kf7 {2.62/27 14
} 49. h6 {3.69/33 36} Ra2+ {2.76/27 67} 50. Bd2 {3.72/34 16 (Kf3)} Nf4+ {
2.76/28 41} 51. Ke3 {3.81/39 155} Nd5+ {2.69/29 43} 52. Kd3 {3.82/35 10} Ra3+ {
2.61/27 42} 53. Ke2 {4.09/39 147} Rh3 {2.97/30 131} 54. Rf5+ {4.12/31 12 (Bg5)}
Ke6 {2.80/27 62} 55. Rf3 {4.20/36 39} Rh5 {2.81/28 38 (Rh2+)} 56. Kf2 {4.27/33
29} Nf6 {3.01/31 71} 57. Kg2 {4.39/28 10} Rd5 {3.04/27 16} 58. Rg3 {4.55/32 36
(Be3)} Rd7 {2.97/27 27} 59. Be3 {4.58/31 8} Nd5 {3.17/28 51} 60. Kf3 {5.35/35
112} Rf7+ {3.04/23 19} 61. Kg4 {5.50/34 22 (Ke2)} Nf6+ {4.36/28 97} 62. Kh4 {
6.17/36 115 adjud.} 1-0[/pgn]