What a move 11.a3!! Aronian-Carlsen_Norway Chess 2017

[Milos]

I really don't get why all of you first feed the troll, second how you have patience to argue with a troll for so many days and weeks, over and over again???
He is at best someone who is well below master candidate level (maybe once long time ago was close to there), someone whose current OTB level is category 1 player, with some (in most cases wrong) knowledge of computer engines.
Arguing with someone like this about quality of 3300Elo monster engine's moves is like arguing with a high school kid at science fair about quantum gravity. Just plain ridiculous.

[IQ]

I really don't get why all of you first feed the troll, second how you have patience to argue with a troll for so many days and weeks, over and over again???
He is at best someone who is well below master candidate level (maybe once long time ago was close to there), someone whose current OTB level is category 1 player, with some (in most cases wrong) knowledge of computer engines.
Arguing with someone like this about quality of 3300Elo monster engine's moves is like arguing with a high school kid at science fair about quantum gravity. Just plain ridiculous.

I admit that you are 100% correct. I thought through playing a game with him he would see that things are not that simple and that he would maybe tone down his language and claims. Now, I just hope the poll ends this for good so we can all move on.

[fastgm]

Thanks for your analysis! It seems like this was a breakable fortress.
My guess is that the reason why the engines have to think over depth 50 to make some progress is a long king journey through a5.

The following position should be much harder to crack!
[D]4k3/1p4B1/1Pp1p3/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 w - - 0 1

This position is definitely harder to crack by engines!
But Stockfish's eval indicates, that it's not an fortress either.
It seems to be a zugzwang position at which white has the breakthrough with e4, g4 and/or d5.

[d]4k3/1p4B1/1Pp1p3/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 w - - 0 1

Stockfish 190617 64 BMI2:

76/94 21:22 81.879.955k 63.826k +2,47 1.h3 Kf7 2.Bh6 Kg6 3.Bg5 Nc3 4.Bd8 Kf7 5.Bh4 Kg6 6.g4 hxg4+ 7.hxg4 Ne4 8.Be1 Kf6 9.g5+ Kf7 10.Bb4 Kg6 11.Ke2 Kf7 12.Kd3 Nf2+ 13.Kc4 Nd1 14.Bd2 Kg6 15.Kd3 Nf2+ 16.Kc2 Ne4 17.Be1 Kf7 18.Bb4 Kg7 19.Ba3 Kf7 20.Kb2 Kg6 21.Kb3 Kf7 22.Bb4 Ke7 23.Kc4 Ng3 24.Ba5 Kf7 25.Bc3 Ke7 26.Bd2 Nf1 27.Kd3 Ng3 28.Bc1 Ne4 29.Kc2 Kf7 30.Kb3 Ng3 31.Kc4 Ne4 32.Kb4 Nf2 33.Kc3 Kg6 34.Bd2 Ne4+ 35.Kc2 Kg7 36.Kd3 Nf2+ 37.Kc4 Kf7 38.Ba5 Nd1 39.Kd3 Nf2+ 40.Kc2 Ne4 41.Be1
77/94+ 43:10 171.307.428k 66.118k +2,54 1.h3
77/94+ 57:47 234.282.957k 67.562k +2,62 1.h3
77/94+ 1:25:03 366.009.783k 71.718k +2,72 1.h3
77/94+ 1:40:46 471.304.827k 77.953k +2,88 1.h3
77/94+ 3:08:04 1.192.072.436k 105.642k +3,09 1.h3
77/100 3:11:16 1.221.657.461k 106.447k +3,37 1.Bh6

[d]4k3/1p6/1Pp1p2B/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 b - - 1 1

McBrain 2.5 64 BMI2:

78/88 12:42 53.732.779k 70.468k -2,44 1. ... Kf7 2.Bg5 Nc3 3.Bh4 Nd5 4.h3 Nc3 5.g4 hxg4+ 6.hxg4 Ke8 7.Be1 Ne4 8.Bb4 Kd7 9.g5 Ke7 10.Kg2 Kf7 11.Kh3 Kg6 12.Kh4 Kg7 13.Ba5 Kh7 14.Be1 Kg6 15.Bg3 Kh7 16.Kh3 Kg6 17.Bh4 Kg7 18.Kg2 Kg6 19.Kh2 Kf7 20.Bg3 Nd2 21.Kh3 Nc4 22.Bf2 Nd2 23.Kg2 Ne4 24.Bg3 Kg6 25.Kh3 Kf7 26.Bh2 Kg6 27.Kg2 Nd2 28.Kf2 Ne4+ 29.Kf3 Kf7 30.Bg3 Nd2+ 31.Ke2 Ne4 32.Be1 Kg6 33.Kd3 Kf7 34.Kc4 Ke7 35.Bb4 Nf2 36.Kb3 Kf7 37.Bc3 Ne4 38.Kb4 Nf2 39.Bd2 Ne4 40.Bc1 Kg6 41.Bb2 Kf7 42.Kb3
79/88- 16:04 69.043.291k 71.579k -2,52 1. ... Kf7 2.Bg5
79/88- 35:15 158.112.148k 74.734k -2,59 1. ... Kf7 2.Bg5
79/88- 38:35 173.232.243k 74.800k -2,70 1. ... Kf7 2.Bg5

[d]8/1p3k2/1Pp1p3/2P2pBp/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 b - - 3 2

64/84 11:08 83.513.945k 124.839k -4,04 2. ... Nc3 3.Bh4 Ne4 4.Ke2 Nc3+ 5.Kd2 Nd5 6.h3 Kg7 7.g4 hxg4 8.hxg4 Kf8 9.g5 Ke8 10.Kd3 Nb4+ 11.Kc3 Nd5+ 12.Kd2 Ne7 13.Be1 Ng6 14.Bg3 Ne7 15.Kd3 Ng6 16.e4 Kd7 17.Kd2 Ke7 18.Ke2 Kd7 19.Kd3 Kc8 20.Ke3 Ne7 21.Be1 Kd8 22.Bc3 Ke8 23.Kd3 Kf7 24.Be1 Kg6 25.Bd2 Kf7 26.Ke3 Ke8 27.Bc3 Kf8 28.Be1 Ke8 29.Bd2 Kd8 30.Ba5 Kd7 31.Kd3 Kc8 32.Bb4 Kd7 33.Be1 Kc8 34.Bc3 Ng6 35.Bd2 Kd7 36.Ke2

[d]8/1p3k2/1Pp1p3/2P2p1p/3P1P1B/2n1PK2/6PP/8 b - - 5 3

74/85 03:26 14.855.622k 72.043k -3,03 3. ... Kf8 4.Be1 Nd5 5.Bf2 Ke8 6.Ke2 Nf6 7.Kd2 Ng4 8.Bg3 Nf6 9.Bh4 Nd5 10.h3 Kd7 11.Be1 Nf6 12.Kd1 Ke8 13.Ke2 Nd5 14.Bh4 Kd7 15.Bg5 Ke8 16.Kf2 Kf8 17.Bh4 Kf7 18.Ke2 Ke8 19.Kf3 Nc3 20.Be1 Ne4 21.Bg3 Kd7 22.Bh4 Nc3 23.Bf2 Ne4 24.Ke2 Nf6 25.Ke1 Ne4 26.Kf1 Nf6 27.Ke2 Nd5 28.Kd3 Nf6 29.Kc2 Nd5 30.Kd2 Ke8 31.Be1 Kf7 32.Kd3 Ke8 33.Ke2 Nf6 34.Bg3 Nd5 35.Kf3 Kf7 36.Bf2 Kf6 37.Ke2 Kf7 38.Ke1 Nf6 39.Bh4 Nd5 40.Kd2 Ke8 41.Bf2
75/90- 05:46 25.131.158k 72.426k -3,10 3. ... Kf8 4.Be1
75/90- 07:45 34.086.449k 73.164k -3,18 3. ... Kf8 4.h3
75/91- 1:06:23 323.702.024k 81.266k -3,65 3. ... Kf8 4.h3

[d]5k2/1p6/1Pp1p3/2P2p1p/3P1P1B/2n1PK1P/6P1/8 b - - 0 4

70/90 14:56 89.294.430k 99.602k -4,22 4. ... Kf7 5.Kf2 Ke8 6.Ke1 Nd5 7.Kd2 Kd7 8.Bg5 Ke8 9.Ke2 Kf7 10.Bh4 Kg6 11.g4 hxg4 12.hxg4 Nc3+ 13.Kd3 Ne4 14.Be1 Nf6 15.g5 Nd5 16.Bf2 Kg7 17.Kd2 Kf7 18.Be1 Kg6 19.Kd3 Kg7 20.Bd2 Ne7 21.e4 Kf7 22.Ke3 Ke8 23.exf5 exf5 24.d5 Kd7 25.dxc6+ bxc6 26.Kd3 Kc8 27.Kd4 Ng6 28.Bc3 Kb7 29.Ba1 Kc8 30.Ke3 Kb7 31.Bf6 Kc8 32.Bd4 Kb7 33.Be5 Kc8 34.Bc3 Ne7 35.Bb4 Ng6 36.Be1 Ne7 37.Kd4 Ng6 38.Ba5 Kb7 39.Ke3 Kc8 40.Bd2 Kb7 41.Be1 Kc8 42.Ba5 Ne7 43.Kd4 Ng6

[d]8/1p3k2/1Pp1p3/2P2p1p/3P1P1B/2n1PK1P/6P1/8 w - - 1 5

72/82 02:25 11.743.836k 80.580k +2,46 5.g4 hxg4+ 6.hxg4 Ke8 7.Bf2 Kd7 8.g5 Ne4 9.Ke2 Ke8 10.Kf1 Kf8 11.Be1 Kf7 12.Ke2 Ke7 13.Kf3 Kf7 14.Bh4 Nc3 15.Bf2 Ne4 16.Bg1 Nd2+ 17.Ke2 Ne4 18.Kd3 Kg7 19.Kc4 Kf7 20.Kb3 Kg6 21.Kc2 Kf7 22.Kd1 Nc3+ 23.Kd2 Ne4+ 24.Ke2 Ng3+ 25.Kf3 Ne4 26.Bf2 Kf8 27.Bh4 Kf7 28.Kg2 Kf8 29.Be1 Kg8 30.Bg3 Kf7 31.Kf3 Kg6 32.Bh2 Nd2+ 33.Ke2 Ne4 34.Kd1 Kf7 35.Kc2 Kg6 36.Kb2 Nf2 37.Kc3 Ne4+ 38.Kd3 Kf7 39.Kc4 Kg6 40.Kb3 Nf2 41.Kb4 Ne4 42.Kc4 Kh5 43.Kb3 Kg6 44.Kc2
73/83+ 03:40 17.833.146k 80.801k +2,53 5.g4
73/83+ 08:43 43.195.625k 82.465k +2,60 5.g4
73/99+ 28:51 148.462.537k 85.762k +4,21 5.g4

[d]8/1p3k2/1Pp1p3/2P2p2/3P1PPB/2n1PK2/8/8 b - - 0 6

46/70 01:17 9.428.628k 121.102k -4,96 6. ... Kg6 7.Bf2 Ne4 8.Be1 Nf6 9.g5 Nd5 10.e4 Ne7 11.Bc3 Kf7 12.Ke3 Kf8 13.Bd2 Kf7 14.Bc1 Kg6 15.Bb2 Kf7 16.Ba1 Ke8 17.exf5 exf5 18.d5 Kd7 19.Kd4 Ng6 20.Bb2 Kc8 21.Ke3 Ne7 22.Bf6 Nxd5+ 23.Kd4 Nxf4 24.Ke5 Ng6+ 25.Kxf5 Nh4+ 26.Ke6 Kb8 27.Be5+ Ka8 28.Bd4 Kb8 29.Bc3 Ng2 30.Be5+ Ka8 31.Kf6 Nh4 32.Bd4 Ng2 33.Bf2 Nf4 34.Kf5 Nd5 35.Bd4 Ne7+ 36.Ke5 Nd5
47/89 03:40 26.514.757k 120.234k -4,84 6. ... Kg6 7.Bg3 Ne4 8.Be1 Nf6 9.g5 Nd5 10.e4 Ne7 11.Bc3 Kf7 12.Ke3 Ke8 13.Bd2 Kd7 14.Kd3 Ke8 15.Be1 Kd7 16.Ke2 Kd8 17.Bd2 Kd7 18.Ke3 Ke8 19.exf5 exf5 20.d5 Kd7 21.Kd4 Ng6 22.Bb4 Kd8 23.Ke3 Ne7 24.Ba5 cxd5 25.Bc3 Kd7 26.Bf6 Ng6 27.Kd4 Kc6 28.Be5 Nf8 29.Bd6 Ne6+ 30.Ke5 d4 31.Kxe6 d3 32.g6 d2 33.g7 d1Q 34.Ke7 Qg4 35.Kf8 Qg6 36.g8Q
48/89 09:29 67.485.109k 118.460k -7,60 6. ... Ke8 7.g5 Kd7 8.g6 Ke8 9.Bf6 Na4 10.Be5 Nc3 11.Kf2 Kf8 12.Kg2 Kg8 13.Kh3 Kf8 14.Kh2 Ne2 15.Kg2 Nc3 16.Kh3 Kg8 17.Kh4 Ne4 18.Kh5 Kf8 19.g7+ Kg8 20.Kh6 Nd2 21.Kg6 Nf1 22.Bd6 Nxe3 23.Kf6 Ng2 24.Bc7 Ne3 25.Be5 Ng4+ 26.Kxe6 Ne3 27.Kf6 Nd5+ 28.Kg6 Nxf4+ 29.Kxf5 Nd5 30.Ke6 Ne3 31.Kd6 Nc4+ 32.Kc7 Na5 33.d5 cxd5 34.Bc3 Nb3
49/89- 26:02 184.206.429k 117.876k -11,36 6. ... Kg6 7.Bg3

and after some forward and backward analysis:

[d]4k3/1p4B1/1Pp1p3/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 w - - 0 1

59/86 05:47 39.986.283k 114.936k +4,49 1.Bh6 Kf7 2.Bg5 Nc3 3.Bd8 Nd5 4.Bh4 Ke8 5.Bg5 Nc3 6.Kf2 Nd5 7.Ke2 Kf8 8.Bh4 Kg7 9.Bg3 Kf7 10.Bf2 Nf6 11.Be1 Nd5 12.Kd2 Kf8 13.Bh4 Kf7 14.Kd3 Kf8 15.e4 Nxf4+ 16.Ke3 Nxg2+ 17.Kf2 Nf4 18.Bg5 Nd3+ 19.Ke3 Nb4 20.exf5 exf5 21.Kf4 Ke8 22.Kxf5 Nc2 23.Kg6 Nxd4 24.Kxh5 Kf7 25.h4 Ne6 26.Be3 Ng7+ 27.Kg5 Ke6 28.h5 Nxh5 29.Kxh5 Ke5 30.Kg6 Ke6 31.Bf4 Ke7 32.Kf5 Kd8 33.Be5 Ke8 34.Bd4 Kd7 35.Bf2 Ke7 36.Bh4+ Kd7 37.Bg5 Kc8 38.Ke6 Kb8 39.Bf6 Kc8
60/86+ 06:26 44.193.827k 114.431k +4,33 1.Bh6
60/93+ 23:47 178.395.872k 125.000k +5,67 1.Bh6
60/99- 30:00 225.318.869k 125.118k +5,27 1.Bh6 Kf7
60/100- 30:20 227.538.020k 124.955k +4,47 1.Bh6 Kf7
60/121+ 30:24 227.898.519k 124.916k +5,13 1.Bh6
60/121+ 47:27 358.321.818k 125.821k +6,42 1.Bh6

[Adam Hair]

11.a3 was a huge surprise for Carlsen and had many pitfalls. Not easy with only 1:40 for 40 moves to select the best lines here. So in practical play between humans 10.a3! is surely for preference (and the game result proves it).

11.c5 is a typical engine blocking move (grab space) and I can imagine Aronian will not like it. 11... e5 is not forced, black could also try the typical undermining move 11... b6. After 36 ply SF on my slow notebook just gives 0.06 in white's favour after this move.

Aronian is the best prepared player in the world, with original ideas and deep insights. If 11.c5 is really best - what you suggest - he would have played it. It is rather odd to see a 2180 player claiming he knows better than Aronian, who probably has spent a huge amount of time on this position.

After 2 120'+1' selfplay games each for 11.a3 and 11.c5 on my laptop using Stockfish 170606, White won twice with a3 and drew twice with c5.
Not definitive, but suggestive.

See all 4 games below:

[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2017.06.19"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 170606"]
[Black "Stockfish 170606b"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "r1br2k1/1p1nqppp/p1p1pn2/3p4/1bPP4/PPN1PN2/2BB1PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "168"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "7200+60"]

1... Bd6 {-0.08/33 461s} 2. Re1 {+0.05/33 525s} dxc4 {-0.22/30 305s}
3. bxc4 {+0.16/30 160s} e5 {-0.14/30 231s} 4. Ng5 {+0.14/27 36s}
Bc7 {0.00/29 82s} 5. f4 {+0.15/32 201s} h6 {-0.13/31 309s} 6. Nf3 {0.00/28 27s}
exd4 {-0.21/33 281s} 7. exd4 {+0.07/33 145s} Qf8 {-0.13/32 32s}
8. a4 {+0.37/32 116s} Nb6 {-0.15/34 139s} 9. Qe2 {+0.38/31 31s}
Be6 {-0.31/33 56s} 10. Bd3 {+0.13/36 311s} Bg4 {-0.16/35 197s}
11. a5 {+0.22/33 50s} Bxf3 {-0.31/32 28s} 12. gxf3 {+0.15/36 225s}
Nbd7 {-0.22/35 379s} 13. Ne4 {+0.16/32 33s} Nh5 {-0.54/28 27s}
14. f5 {+0.33/34 165s} Ndf6 {-0.27/31 171s} 15. Qf2 {+0.46/31 291s}
Rd7 {-0.23/31 266s} 16. Bc3 {+0.42/32 233s} Bb8 {-0.66/34 1021s}
17. Qh4 {+0.63/30 101s} Bd6 {-0.72/34 601s} 18. Nxd6 {+1.01/32 97s}
Qxd6 {-1.02/34 237s} 19. Re5 {+1.06/32 41s} Re7 {-1.33/32 48s}
20. c5 {+1.09/34 196s} Qd7 {-1.17/35 144s} 21. Bc4 {+1.37/32 136s}
Rf8 {-1.19/35 312s} 22. f4 {+1.43/33 192s} Kh7 {-1.07/33 342s}
23. Rf1 {+1.58/33 303s} Ree8 {-1.55/34 506s} 24. Qh3 {+1.75/32 153s}
Ne4 {-1.59/34 436s} 25. Rxe4 {+1.67/36 301s} Rxe4 {-1.81/35 212s}
26. Qxh5 {+1.77/35 49s} Re3 {-1.78/33 49s} 27. Ba1 {+1.90/37 400s}
g6 {-1.65/34 114s} 28. Qd1 {+1.96/34 33s} Qxf5 {-1.86/29 36s}
29. d5 {+2.13/34 244s} Ra3 {-1.64/34 338s} 30. Qd4 {+2.15/36 211s}
Rxa1 {-2.24/32 222s} 31. Rxa1 {+2.06/32 48s} Qg4+ {-2.61/31 46s}
32. Kf2 {+2.20/34 162s} Qh4+ {-2.46/31 131s} 33. Kg2 {+2.51/37 231s}
Qg4+ {-2.82/36 266s} 34. Kf2 {+2.62/37 107s} Qh4+ {-2.85/32 31s}
35. Ke2 {+2.40/32 41s} cxd5 {-3.07/33 331s} 36. Bxd5 {+2.70/34 106s}
Rd8 {-2.06/32 55s} 37. Rd1 {+2.67/31 52s} Qh5+ {-2.47/35 555s}
38. Kf1 {+3.00/36 544s} Qxh2 {-2.91/36 151s} 39. Rd3 {+3.33/38 109s}
Qc2 {-2.91/36 27s} 40. Rd2 {+3.54/36 298s} Qb1+ {-2.58/27 63s}
41. Kg2 {+3.54/34 29s} Qf5 {-3.01/34 222s} 42. Qe5 {+3.86/36 172s}
Qg4+ {-3.02/29 10s} 43. Kf1 {+4.18/34 91s} Rd7 {-3.20/34 105s}
44. Rd4 {+3.80/32 29s} h5 {-2.97/33 35s} 45. Bg2 {+4.34/34 99s}
Rxd4 {-3.70/28 12s} 46. Qxd4 {+4.38/33 29s} Qf5 {-3.75/34 88s}
47. Kg1 {+4.47/38 99s} Kg8 {-4.53/33 123s} 48. Kh2 {+4.71/36 132s}
Qc2 {-4.91/34 114s} 49. Qe3 {+5.27/30 43s} Kf8 {-4.68/30 40s}
50. Kg3 {+5.77/33 132s} Qb1 {-5.08/28 11s} 51. Qe5 {+5.81/33 40s}
Qb4 {-5.36/33 116s} 52. Qh8+ {+7.86/35 191s} Ke7 {-5.36/1 0s}
53. Qe5+ {+8.32/30 30s} Kf8 {-6.18/33 176s} 54. Kh2 {+10.19/37 253s}
Kg8 {-5.86/35 77s} 55. Qb8+ {+13.43/35 300s} Kh7 {-5.82/30 9.9s}
56. c6 {+11.78/37 59s} Qe7 {-11.10/31 90s} 57. cxb7 {+13.43/31 102s}
Qh4+ {-11.11/31 8.6s} 58. Kg1 {+14.24/25 25s} Qe1+ {-12.94/30 95s}
59. Bf1 {+14.54/30 136s} Qg3+ {-12.95/25 11s} 60. Kh1 {+15.93/29 77s}
Qe1 {-14.00/31 146s} 61. Kg2 {+18.09/30 167s} Qd2+ {-14.23/32 74s}
62. Kf3 {+22.35/24 45s} Qc3+ {-14.39/27 60s} 63. Ke4 {+32.25/27 89s}
Qc6+ {-15.34/25 60s} 64. Kd4 {+52.11/29 94s} Qa4+ {-21.56/27 60s}
65. Kd5 {+65.28/28 132s} Qxa5+ {-41.29/25 60s} 66. Kd6 {+M63/30 87s}
Qb6+ {-63.81/29 60s} 67. Ke7 {+M41/42 73s} Qb4+ {-M56/35 60s}
68. Kxf7 {+M39/44 33s} Qb3+ {-M40/38 12s} 69. Ke7 {+M37/49 108s}
Qb4+ {-M36/44 53s} 70. Kd7 {+M31/48 60s} Qa4+ {-M34/43 12s}
71. Kd8 {+M29/52 104s} Qd4+ {-M32/47 50s} 72. Kc8 {+M27/52 37s}
Qh8+ {-M30/46 10s} 73. Kc7 {+M25/55 108s} Qg7+ {-M24/48 64s}
74. Kc6 {+M23/55 22s} Qc3+ {-M22/48 12s} 75. Kd7 {+M21/61 112s}
Qg7+ {-M20/54 62s} 76. Ke6 {+M19/65 116s} Qc3 {-M18/54 11s}
77. Bg2 {+M17/64 21s} Qb3+ {-M16/64 62s} 78. Bd5 {+M15/80 101s}
Qh3+ {-M14/66 13s} 79. Ke7 {+M13/82 23s} Qc3 {-M12/87 60s}
80. Qg8+ {+M11/97 101s} Kh6 {-M10/1 0s} 81. Qf8+ {+M9/101 25s}
Qg7+ {-M8/127 41s} 82. Qxg7+ {+M7/125 110s} Kxg7 {-M6/1 0s}
83. b8=Q {+M5/125 35s} h4 {-M4/119 70s} 84. Qg8+ {+M3/127 0.11s} Kh6 {-M2/1 0s}
85. Qh8# {+M1/127 0.003s, White mates} 1-0

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2017.06.19"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 170606b"]
[Black "Stockfish 170606"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "r1br2k1/1p1nqppp/p1p1pn2/3p4/1bPP4/PPN1PN2/2BB1PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "174"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "7200+60"]

1... Bd6 {-0.08/33 464s} 2. Re1 {+0.05/33 526s} dxc4 {-0.22/30 308s}
3. bxc4 {+0.16/30 157s} e5 {-0.14/30 228s} 4. Ng5 {+0.14/27 36s}
Bc7 {0.00/29 83s} 5. f4 {+0.15/32 199s} h6 {-0.13/31 311s} 6. Nf3 {0.00/28 26s}
exd4 {-0.21/33 279s} 7. exd4 {+0.07/33 144s} Qf8 {-0.13/32 32s}
8. a4 {+0.37/32 115s} Nb6 {-0.15/34 135s} 9. Qe2 {+0.38/31 30s}
Be6 {-0.31/33 55s} 10. Bd3 {+0.13/36 309s} Bg4 {-0.16/35 199s}
11. a5 {+0.22/33 50s} Bxf3 {-0.31/32 28s} 12. gxf3 {+0.23/37 364s}
Nbd7 {-0.22/35 383s} 13. Ne4 {+0.15/31 34s} Nh5 {-0.54/28 28s}
14. f5 {+0.11/35 310s} Ndf6 {-0.27/31 173s} 15. Qf2 {+0.37/31 216s}
Rd7 {-0.23/31 263s} 16. Kh1 {+0.41/29 205s} Kh8 {-0.62/33 418s}
17. Bc3 {+0.63/31 128s} Re8 {-0.65/34 158s} 18. Bc2 {+0.71/30 126s}
Rb8 {-0.67/35 170s} 19. Rab1 {+0.80/32 144s} Qa3 {-0.66/33 164s}
20. Rb3 {+0.77/34 288s} Qf8 {-0.70/36 536s} 21. Rg1 {+0.80/32 261s}
Qd8 {-0.68/35 160s} 22. Qg2 {+0.72/35 251s} Qf8 {-0.70/33 34s}
23. Rbb1 {+0.85/35 165s} Bf4 {-0.77/33 460s} 24. Qf2 {+0.67/34 308s}
Qe7 {-0.68/34 311s} 25. Rge1 {+0.65/37 459s} Qa3 {-0.72/31 35s}
26. Bb4 {+0.95/35 348s} Qa2 {-1.01/36 470s} 27. Rb3 {+1.06/35 126s}
b5 {-1.05/37 557s} 28. Nc3 {+1.21/32 36s} Qxb3 {-2.16/35 233s}
29. Bxb3 {+1.47/36 175s} bxc4 {-2.11/34 44s} 30. Bxc4 {+1.92/32 46s}
Rxb4 {-2.20/35 216s} 31. Qa2 {+2.14/33 108s} Bd2 {-2.22/36 292s}
32. Qxd2 {+1.97/41 357s} Rxc4 {-2.03/37 72s} 33. Rd1 {+1.10/42 661s}
c5 {-2.03/37 38s} 34. d5 {+1.30/38 39s} Rd4 {-1.24/38 207s}
35. Qe2 {+1.33/41 179s} Kh7 {-1.25/40 246s} 36. Qxa6 {+1.31/37 28s}
Nxd5 {-1.35/38 27s} 37. Rxd4 {+1.39/41 128s} cxd4 {-1.69/43 241s}
38. Qb5 {+1.37/38 28s} Ndf6 {-1.91/37 20s} 39. Ne4 {+1.54/41 102s}
d3 {-1.94/43 172s} 40. Nd2 {+1.72/39 34s} Rc7 {-2.20/39 35s}
41. Qb1 {+2.08/40 82s} Nf4 {-2.18/43 111s} 42. a6 {+2.14/40 31s}
Nh3 {-2.26/39 19s} 43. Kg2 {+2.33/43 180s} Nf4+ {-2.37/44 171s}
44. Kh1 {+2.39/47 293s} Nh3 {-2.20/39 19s} 45. Qf1 {+2.32/40 34s}
Nd5 {-2.35/47 229s} 46. Qxh3 {+2.45/47 116s} Rc1+ {-2.18/40 20s}
47. Qf1 {+2.55/44 41s} Rxf1+ {-2.35/48 215s} 48. Nxf1 {+2.92/44 75s}
Kg8 {-2.81/41 22s} 49. a7 {+3.32/46 113s} Nc7 {-3.31/50 252s}
50. Kg2 {+3.55/44 25s} Kf8 {-3.37/45 23s} 51. Kf2 {+3.81/47 107s}
Ke8 {-4.17/46 187s} 52. Ke3 {+3.98/43 38s} Kd7 {-4.09/40 16s}
53. Kxd3 {+4.11/46 78s} Kc6 {-4.48/46 154s} 54. Ng3 {+4.30/44 80s}
Kb7 {-4.70/46 137s} 55. Kc4 {+4.60/40 36s} Kb6 {-6.39/44 386s}
56. Nh5 {+5.46/40 90s} g6 {-6.11/42 206s} 57. Nf4 {+7.24/39 87s}
Kxa7 {-8.11/43 104s} 58. Nxg6 {+7.33/40 24s} Kb6 {-8.64/35 60s}
59. Ne5 {+9.84/43 85s} f6 {-9.13/38 60s} 60. Nd7+ {+12.06/40 64s}
Kc6 {-9.44/34 60s} 61. Nxf6 {+21.66/41 334s} Kd6 {-10.64/32 60s}
62. Kd4 {+41.33/38 80s} Nb5+ {-9.57/33 25s} 63. Ke4 {+50.62/38 85s}
Nc3+ {-8.90/32 16s} 64. Kf4 {+50.62/36 36s} Nd1 {-14.23/38 132s}
65. Ng8 {+60.89/41 152s} h5 {-18.90/33 67s} 66. h4 {+M89/40 512s}
Nf2 {-23.15/32 60s} 67. Nf6 {+M87/42 22s} Nd3+ {-55.95/33 60s}
68. Kg5 {+M71/45 61s} Nb4 {-61.64/31 60s} 69. Nxh5 {+M49/46 78s}
Nc2 {-69.00/31 60s} 70. f6 {+M41/49 77s} Nd4 {-M60/35 60s} 71. Kg6 {+M39/50 23s}
Kd5 {-M40/43 60s} 72. f7 {+M35/53 95s} Ne6 {-M38/44 9.0s} 73. Kh7 {+M33/53 24s}
Kd4 {-M36/45 45s} 74. Kg8 {+M31/59 89s} Kc4 {-M32/46 49s} 75. f8=Q {+M29/60 96s}
Nxf8 {-M28/51 59s} 76. Kxf8 {+M27/60 31s} Kc3 {-M26/53 53s}
77. Nf6 {+M23/60 95s} Kd4 {-M24/52 19s} 78. h5 {+M21/64 94s} Ke5 {-M20/56 59s}
79. Kf7 {+M19/63 18s} Kd4 {-M18/60 49s} 80. h6 {+M17/69 79s} Kc3 {-M16/66 55s}
81. Ne4+ {+M15/76 98s} Kb2 {-M14/79 51s} 82. h7 {+M13/86 90s} Ka3 {-M12/93 60s}
83. h8=Q {+M11/88 111s} Kb4 {-M10/100 49s} 84. Qc3+ {+M9/89 25s}
Kb5 {-M8/127 11s} 85. Nd6+ {+M7/127 8.0s} Kb6 {-M6/127 0.62s}
86. Qc4 {+M5/127 0.007s} Ka7 {-M4/127 0.004s} 87. Qc6 {+M3/127 0.003s}
Kb8 {-M2/1 0s} 88. Qb7# {+M1/127 0.002s, White mates} 1-0

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2017.06.19"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 170606"]
[Black "Stockfish 170606b"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[FEN "r1br2k1/1p1nqppp/p1p1pn2/2Pp4/1b1P4/1PN1PN2/P1BB1PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "56"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "7200+60"]

1... e5 {-0.26/31 255s} 2. a3 {+0.03/32 291s} Bxc3 {0.00/33 82s}
3. Bxc3 {+0.08/32 26s} e4 {-0.05/33 26s} 4. Nd2 {0.00/36 184s}
Nf8 {-0.06/34 230s} 5. h3 {0.00/36 347s} Bf5 {0.00/34 97s} 6. a4 {0.00/34 155s}
Bg6 {+0.04/33 222s} 7. b4 {0.00/35 232s} Ne6 {0.00/36 313s}
8. Qe2 {0.00/32 291s} Bh5 {+0.03/34 206s} 9. Qe1 {-0.05/34 287s}
Ng5 {0.00/33 29s} 10. Bd1 {0.00/34 54s} Re8 {+0.07/34 107s}
11. Bxh5 {-0.08/37 272s} Nxh5 {0.00/38 200s} 12. Qe2 {0.00/38 123s}
g6 {0.00/38 145s} 13. b5 {0.00/36 67s} f5 {0.00/37 168s} 14. bxc6 {0.00/34 140s}
bxc6 {0.00/37 38s} 15. Rab1 {0.00/36 416s} f4 {0.00/38 148s}
16. Qg4 {0.00/35 135s} Rf8 {0.00/37 44s} 17. Rb6 {+0.29/32 122s}
Rf5 {0.00/38 211s} 18. Qh4 {0.00/38 485s} Raf8 {0.00/38 153s}
19. Rfb1 {0.00/39 151s} fxe3 {0.00/37 50s} 20. fxe3 {0.00/39 36s}
Qc7 {0.00/40 188s} 21. Rb7 {0.00/41 183s} Qg3 {0.00/41 182s}
22. Qxg3 {0.00/41 36s} Nxg3 {0.00/42 62s} 23. Ba5 {0.00/43 282s}
Ne2+ {0.00/42 208s} 24. Kh1 {0.00/44 278s} Rf2 {0.00/42 39s}
25. Rc7 {0.00/43 35s} Ng3+ {0.00/44 175s} 26. Kg1 {0.00/46 233s}
Ne2+ {0.00/44 52s} 27. Kh1 {0.00/46 161s} Ng3+ {0.00/45 246s}
28. Kg1 {0.00/47 161s} Ne2+ {0.00/46 50s}
29. Kh1 {0.00/54 31s, Draw by 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2017.06.19"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 170606b"]
[Black "Stockfish 170606"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[FEN "r1br2k1/1p1nqppp/p1p1pn2/2Pp4/1b1P4/1PN1PN2/P1BB1PPP/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "176"]
[SetUp "1"]
[TimeControl "7200+60"]

1... e5 {-0.26/31 256s} 2. a3 {+0.03/32 291s} Bxc3 {0.00/33 83s}
3. Bxc3 {+0.08/32 26s} e4 {-0.05/33 27s} 4. Nd2 {0.00/36 183s}
Nf8 {-0.06/34 231s} 5. h3 {0.00/36 345s} Bf5 {0.00/34 98s} 6. a4 {0.00/33 127s}
Bg6 {+0.04/33 223s} 7. b4 {0.00/35 156s} Ne6 {0.00/36 315s}
8. Rb1 {0.00/34 279s} Ng5 {+0.09/31 86s} 9. Qe2 {-0.13/33 312s}
Bh5 {+0.27/35 163s} 10. Qe1 {-0.09/33 56s} Qd7 {+0.17/39 234s}
11. Kh2 {-0.18/38 235s} Qc7+ {+0.20/34 30s} 12. Kg1 {-0.12/36 59s}
Re8 {+0.20/39 326s} 13. Bd1 {-0.10/36 315s} Qd7 {+0.10/38 531s}
14. Kh2 {0.00/34 132s} Qc8 {+0.08/36 150s} 15. Rb2 {0.00/35 275s}
Qc7+ {+0.10/35 248s} 16. Kg1 {-0.08/39 355s} Qd7 {+0.15/37 298s}
17. Kh2 {-0.08/38 375s} Bxd1 {+0.06/31 40s} 18. Qxd1 {-0.07/36 30s}
g6 {+0.09/35 262s} 19. b5 {-0.15/37 278s} axb5 {+0.06/38 204s}
20. axb5 {-0.13/35 55s} Ne6 {+0.08/36 46s} 21. Kg1 {-0.09/36 367s}
Nc7 {+0.15/35 128s} 22. bxc6 {-0.12/32 46s} bxc6 {+0.15/37 132s}
23. Nb1 {-0.22/37 443s} Nb5 {+0.20/38 117s} 24. Bb4 {-0.19/37 279s}
Reb8 {+0.13/35 43s} 25. Rb3 {-0.15/38 228s} Qc8 {+0.22/34 130s}
26. Nc3 {-0.24/37 195s} Ne8 {+0.20/42 369s} 27. Rb1 {-0.14/33 28s}
Nxc3 {+0.09/40 433s} 28. Bxc3 {-0.16/38 225s} Nc7 {+0.25/41 408s}
29. Rxb8 {-0.10/38 154s} Qxb8 {+0.08/46 245s} 30. Qb1 {-0.08/38 29s}
Qxb1 {+0.08/44 85s} 31. Rxb1 {-0.17/49 303s} Nb5 {+0.08/47 168s}
32. Ra1 {-0.10/48 117s} Rxa1+ {+0.08/44 29s} 33. Bxa1 {-0.08/42 44s}
Kg7 {+0.08/47 168s} 34. h4 {-0.08/49 212s} f5 {+0.08/47 223s}
35. Kh2 {-0.08/50 167s} Kf7 {+0.08/51 159s} 36. Kg3 {-0.08/58 129s}
Ke7 {+0.08/53 134s} 37. f3 {-0.08/58 213s} exf3 {+0.08/53 49s}
38. Kxf3 {-0.08/57 30s} h6 {+0.08/53 140s} 39. Bb2 {-0.08/61 131s}
g5 {+0.04/57 200s} 40. hxg5 {-0.08/58 304s} hxg5 {+0.04/58 126s}
41. Kf2 {-0.08/58 28s} Kf7 {+0.04/57 56s} 42. Kf3 {-0.08/59 153s}
Ke7 {+0.04/62 251s} 43. Ke2 {0.00/60 1031s} Nc7 {+0.04/60 1088s}
44. Kd3 {-0.08/51 164s} Ne6 {+0.08/51 81s} 45. Bc3 {-0.08/52 95s}
Kf6 {+0.08/56 20s} 46. Be1 {-0.08/52 88s} Kg6 {+0.04/51 105s}
47. Bf2 {-0.08/51 33s} Kf6 {+0.04/54 607s} 48. Kc3 {-0.08/53 88s}
Ke7 {+0.04/54 104s} 49. Kb4 {-0.08/57 142s} Nd8 {+0.04/56 258s}
50. Bg3 {0.00/59 56s} Nf7 {+0.04/59 53s} 51. Bc7 {0.00/59 92s}
Kd7 {+0.04/56 60s} 52. Bb8 {0.00/67 91s} Nh6 {+0.04/62 58s}
53. Kc3 {0.00/66 42s} Ng4 {+0.04/61 18s} 54. Kd3 {0.00/67 430s}
Nh6 {+0.04/64 69s} 55. Ke2 {0.00/60 54s} Nf7 {+0.04/61 53s}
56. Bg3 {0.00/68 55s} Nh6 {+0.04/63 12s} 57. Kf3 {0.00/67 60s}
Ke6 {+0.04/65 81s} 58. Ke2 {0.00/67 31s} Ng4 {+0.04/65 56s}
59. Kd2 {0.00/68 61s} Kd7 {+0.04/65 54s} 60. Bd6 {0.00/69 12s}
Nh6 {+0.04/65 55s} 61. Ke2 {0.00/70 100s} Ng4 {+0.04/72 71s}
62. Kd3 {0.00/73 79s} Nf2+ {+0.04/65 68s} 63. Ke2 {0.00/73 11s}
Ne4 {+0.04/65 16s} 64. Be5 {0.00/70 91s} Ke7 {+0.04/64 83s}
65. Kd3 {0.00/49 271s} Kf7 {+0.04/64 14s} 66. Ke2 {0.00/67 141s}
Ke6 {+0.04/67 72s} 67. Bc7 {0.00/71 21s} Kf6 {+0.04/67 57s}
68. Kd3 {0.00/66 52s} Kf7 {+0.04/52 62s} 69. Ke2 {0.00/70 119s}
Ke7 {+0.04/64 269s} 70. Kd3 {0.00/52 60s} Kf6 {+0.04/53 48s}
71. Be5+ {0.00/58 38s} Ke6 {+0.04/58 46s} 72. Bc7 {0.00/64 64s}
Kf6 {+0.04/55 10s} 73. Ke2 {0.00/70 79s} Ke7 {0.00/61 129s}
74. Kf3 {0.00/50 60s} Kd7 {0.00/65 144s} 75. Bg3 {0.00/64 40s} Nf6 {0.00/59 42s}
76. Bb8 {0.00/62 48s} Ng4 {0.00/56 48s} 77. Bg3 {0.00/67 8.1s} Ke7 {0.00/59 41s}
78. Bd6+ {0.00/69 135s} Ke8 {0.00/60 49s} 79. Bg3 {0.00/61 52s}
Nh6 {0.00/55 46s} 80. Bd6 {0.00/50 76s} Ng4 {0.00/56 27s} 81. Ke2 {0.00/67 60s}
Nh6 {0.00/61 97s} 82. Kd3 {0.00/68 37s} Kd7 {0.00/58 119s} 83. Kc3 {0.00/57 75s}
Ng4 {0.00/60 62s} 84. Kd2 {0.00/74 39s} Nf6 {0.00/60 29s} 85. Ke2 {0.00/63 89s}
Ne4 {0.00/65 45s} 86. Be5 {0.00/72 60s} Ke6 {0.00/63 9.7s}
87. Bc7 {0.00/70 9.8s} Kf6 {0.00/67 49s} 88. Bd8+ {0.00/68 76s}
Ke6 {0.00/75 46s} 89. Bc7 {0.00/82 12s, Draw by 3-fold repetition} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[Dirt]

The score of 8-2 implies two black WINS from that position. I am curious to see these games. Can you post them?

Come now, 8-2 wasn't a score. He clearly stated it was 8 draws and 2 wins, which you could also see by looking at the games he posted.

[Arpad Rusz]

[d]4k3/1p4B1/1Pp1p3/2P2p1p/3PnP2/4PK2/6PP/8 w - - 0 1

59/86 05:47 39.986.283k 114.936k +4,49 1.Bh6 Kf7 2.Bg5 Nc3 3.Bd8 Nd5 4.Bh4 Ke8 5.Bg5 Nc3 6.Kf2 Nd5 7.Ke2 Kf8 8.Bh4 Kg7 9.Bg3 Kf7 10.Bf2 Nf6 11.Be1 Nd5 12.Kd2 Kf8 13.Bh4 Kf7 14.Kd3 Kf8 15.e4 Nxf4+ 16.Ke3 Nxg2+ 17.Kf2 Nf4 18.Bg5 Nd3+ 19.Ke3 Nb4 20.exf5 exf5 21.Kf4 Ke8 22.Kxf5 Nc2 23.Kg6 Nxd4 24.Kxh5 Kf7 25.h4 Ne6 26.Be3 Ng7+ 27.Kg5 Ke6 28.h5 Nxh5 29.Kxh5 Ke5 30.Kg6 Ke6 31.Bf4 Ke7 32.Kf5 Kd8 33.Be5 Ke8 34.Bd4 Kd7 35.Bf2 Ke7 36.Bh4+ Kd7 37.Bg5 Kc8 38.Ke6 Kb8 39.Bf6 Kc8
60/86+ 06:26 44.193.827k 114.431k +4,33 1.Bh6
60/93+ 23:47 178.395.872k 125.000k +5,67 1.Bh6
60/99- 30:00 225.318.869k 125.118k +5,27 1.Bh6 Kf7
60/100- 30:20 227.538.020k 124.955k +4,47 1.Bh6 Kf7
60/121+ 30:24 227.898.519k 124.916k +5,13 1.Bh6
60/121+ 47:27 358.321.818k 125.821k +6,42 1.Bh6

It is funny that the evaluation of +4,49 at depth 59 is still based on the following fortress:

[D]2k5/1p6/1Pp1KB2/2P5/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 40

[lucasart]

I really don't get why all of you first feed the troll, second how you have patience to argue with a troll for so many days and weeks, over and over again???
He is at best someone who is well below master candidate level (maybe once long time ago was close to there), someone whose current OTB level is category 1 player, with some (in most cases wrong) knowledge of computer engines.
Arguing with someone like this about quality of 3300Elo monster engine's moves is like arguing with a high school kid at science fair about quantum gravity. Just plain ridiculous.

I cannot agree more...